Seth R.

Hi JeffSjo, It's probably one of the funnier titles for a thread, as such humor is a great way to face some of these pressing concepts. What you have outlined is one of the more honest attempts to come to grips with the "cesspool" of TWI doctrine and practice. Certainly it is painful to face facts that we were all "Tools" in one way or another, leaders from afar promising answers they never intended to answer. We trusted these elders and hoped that one day our enlightenment would come, their answer was take the class, or go on an advance, or attend the ROA, or go WOW, or go Corps, or goto a family camp, or advanced class, or university of life, or the way college program. Use any of the programs of TWI to build that belief and answer those questions, did it work? Were we just fooling ourselves? My answer today is for me is I was a fool and believed the TWI propaganda for longer then I was involved. I was introduced to TWI around 1980'ish I believed the lie from the start, because it felt so good. I was given the Blue book by my Mom in 1984'ish I read it with a "I don't get it" guilt trip, so I read it more, the more I read it the more I thought I understood. The Camera analogy being one of the most childish and stupid yarns VPW ever spun. But I kept at it and after seeing things (I wanted to see) happen I decided God had called me, (it's hard to recognize psychosis when you are in the middle of it) so by 1987 I saved enough money to fly to Eureka Ca. We held a "miracle class" at Sky Wood's house, it was a miracle because they never had enough to run a class in Eureka for 10 years or something. Every freak and nut case within 50 miles showed up at that class, looking back now I should have packed my bags and headed back to New Jersey after the first session. I stuck around TWI until I was asked by Frank Pavlicka (spell?) to not come back to fellowship until I got my stuff together, that was about November 1994 I left Newport News Va. in December '94. I date my belief in TWI doctrine from about 1980'ish and I date my TWI involvement from the time I moved to Eureka, Late August 1987 to the Dec 1994 about 7 years, but it didn't end my belief in TWI's doctrine, for that it took until May of 2000. So I guess my belief in TWI's doctrine was about 20 years, wow I just realized that, 20 years of my life spent wasted on chasing a lie. It's no wonder many people here resist when confronted with the truth, they are afraid to face the possibility that all the time they invested was for naught, at least when it comes to TWI's doctrine. So as far as how you feel about one person you didn't help. I understand, I was part of a super successful WOW team in '92-'93 in Ft. Myers Fla. we ran more classes then any other on the field that year. It's sickening to me to think of how many lives we screwed up by that. I want to contact them all and make my amends but I threw out all my records from TWI long ago and I can't remember who lived where or what their names are. Maybe Mark S. my family and team coordinator still has those records but I doubt he'd be willing to allow me to have a copy. Thanks for the post and I hope I didn't derail the thread. Seth

What kind of insanity this seems like, no matter what the lights were, the fact that VPW spent so much time (40 hours) staring into them for so long was bound to cause some damage. The vanity of VPW was his downfall in many ways, he really didn't need the set so brightly lit, but I'm sure from the test shots, he demanded that the brightest lights be used. I mean the set was to bright, it looked like a cartoon. Seth

Do they really think the earth is flat? If you're a flat-earther, this image is a fake By Brendan O'Neill In the 21st Century, the term "flat-earther" is used to describe someone who is spectacularly - and seemingly wilfully - ignorant. But there is a group of people who claim they believe the planet really is flat. Are they really out there or is it all an elaborate prank? Nasa is celebrating its 50th birthday with much fanfare and pictures of past glories. But in half a century of extraordinary images of space, one stands out.

Hey Mister P-Mosh let's go whoop it up with the Olsteens maybe we can get some dumb chicks there? LOL! Seth

yes true but he used many techniques, the eyes is just one.

My Missionary Position By my blogs it's easy to see something is going on with this guy, well I woke up this morning realizing that it was 15 years ago this week that I made a major transition in my life. August 1st 1992 was a Friday much like this past Friday, I was on Langley Air Force Base Virginia standing in front of a camera. The flash went off, the clerk typed up a white and pink card, then placed my developed Kodak Inst-A-Matic black and white photo in a cutter and punched out my mug-shot. Through the fuser my new ID went and after it cooled and I signed my last form for the Air Force, the clerk handed me my inactive reserve ID card, I was free, or so I thought. There was a storm brewing in the Atlantic, and a gail ripped through the base, as a storm of conflicting thoughts ripped through my mind. This should have been a home coming for me, I should have been planning to go back to New Jersey to reunite with my folks and maybe start working for the family business. You know start a good life for myself and begin mending those fences which were ripped apart by religious insanity. But it was clear in my mind God had a plan for me and it was to be a "Word Over The World Ambassador" This was being a Missionary The Way International style. So any way I went with people I didn't know to Fort Myers Florida for a year trying to hold forth God's Word to people who didn't need it or want it. We were the team that kicked foot we ran more PFAL classes then any others on the field that year. Basically did a mind control indoctrination using a video taped class originally filmed in 1968 by a guy who died in 1985. We .... up about 70 people with that class and untold 100's who attended our fellowships and meetings. We did so well that we had a visit from the Founders son who was the Vice President of The Way International. We lived in a crypt of an apartment, one of the leaders of TWI who over saw the whole state of florida called it a cave. Oh let's rewind, we made it through Hurricane Andrew which was a sure sign to all of us that we were the chosen ones to carry God's Word to the heathen hordes of southern Florida. Well my head hurts now, I think I've enjoyed memory lane enough for now. If you have any questions just ask me. Any wonder why I'm an Atheist now? If you ever want to read more of my stuff about TWI go here: The Greasespot Cafe' goto the forums and search Seth or aeroseth and there you can find my thoughts over the last few years. Seth

Cars do need permits, it's called registration tags and inspection. Seth

Polar Bear, I have severe chronic obstructive sleep apnea, I use a CPAP (Constant Positive Airway Pressure) machine when I sleep. I get a better nights sleep and I feel better all around when I'm using it, so much so that I won't even take a nap without it. Sleep Apnea is serious, snoring is a sign of it, if you aren't rested after 8 hours of sleep on a regular basis you should see a sleep specialist. CPAP is as close to a cure as they have without surgery, but even surgery is no guaranty and due to gravity the soft tissues of the throat will sag requiring more surgery. As Watered Garden pointed out Sleep apnea *will* cause heart disease and high blood pressure, also brain damage because of oxygen deprivation. In my sleep study I stopped breathing over 200 times during the night. In the past I would wake up gasping for air, and it started happening more and more until I was afraid to sleep. Now I wear a mask at night which causes some irritation but I wake refreshed and ready for the day. You owe it to yourself to get that checked out, believe me it's worth it. Seth

Skyrider, Great topic, and well written. I'm inclined to challenge you to look deeper, and so I agree with Coolchef and others who pointed out PFAL foundational as the start of the programming. From session One Wierwille starts with his technique, setting up a train of questions which we all agree on, then he slips in one we cannot validate but we agree anyway. He does this with increasing frequency until we are accepting *everything* he says even though maybe only every other thing he says is true. He uses suspense to build up tension, and then releases it with a dumb joke, then wham hits you broadside with a suggestion. There is a hypnotic technique VPW uses in PFAL that I have yet to prove how much he uses it through out the class because I don't have access to it. The technique he used is a trance induction technique where the hypnotist looks you in the eyes but is focusing 6 inches behind your eyes. All those close ups of Vic's face, remember how wierd he seemed to look with his eyes? It was trance induction, which caused the viewer to open up to suggestion. I have no idea how many suggestions he made during the class, but anyone with a copy could count them, they are there. A minor amount of programming was going on at the twig level but PFAL was the big one for sure. Seth

Hi yourself and see how you like it! ;) Seth

Well strictly speaking you would have to "screw out" before you screw in, which raises a whole other question. Any way you look at it you're screwed. If the question was how many Grease Spotter's does it take to change a light bulb then I would reply with these remarks: The Way-Brain Grease Spotter would say: "The bulb must renew it's filament" The Zen Grease Spotter would say: "What is the true nature of the light bulb?" The self-help Grease Spotter would say: "The light bulb has to want to change" The Green Grease Spotter would say: "If you would use an LED bulb it wouldn't need to be changed for 10 years" The Grease Spotter who likes to quote the bible would say: "Get thee behind me light bulb!" The All-Nine-All-the-time Grease Spotter would say: "I'll minister healing to the light bulb" The Apple Computer using Grease Spotter would say: "Called AppleCare and they sent me a replacement bulb then walked me through the steps on how to do it. Did you see the cool box it came in?" The Dr. Phil fan Grease Spotter would say: "What makes you think that it's the light bulb that needs to change?" :) Seth

OK, I'm just laughing because last week I threw away my #10 16 inch long "eye poking" needle, I thought I'd never need to use it any more. That is until I visited that facebook page, damn! Where's a good needle to stick in my eye when I need it! Oh, well. Nice try. Seth

Acharya S. sent me an email linking to her blog on the Oldest intact Greek new testament dating to around 350 AD/CE found in Egypt is to be released on the internet in a few days. As an ex-TWI I'm fascinated, as a skeptic I'm pleased that such an important document will be shared for believers and non-believers alike to ponder and make their own translations rather then rely on biased theologians squirreled away in some library making his own translations. Here's a link to Acharya's blog Here's a snip: Enjoy, Seth

I agree with all that's been said about low simple carb diet. I'm a sugar addict for sure, it's hard to break, but once broken there is a new feeling I get. I'm going to set a date to end all white sugar and dig into the whole grains and high protein vege's like beans and cauliflower. Since I'm a semi-vegetarian (still eat fish and eggs and dairy) it's tough, but I like tofu better then I did 10 years ago so it's possible. I have to say the American fast food situation is mostly poison, the only places I can get a decent lunch is Subways or Chinese food (yum General Tso's Tofu) Seth

LOL!! I don't know why but I just don't seem to have a nicotine addiction, I can smoke or not smoke. I have 2 packs of Djarum flavored clove cigarettes one is cherry the other vanilla. They have been sitting on my computer desk for a couple months, I smoke maybe one every couple days, sometimes 1 a week if I'm really stressed I'll smoke 2 cigs a day. People say I should quit, I say why, I like the buzz every now and then, and this has been for decades that I've been like this, the most I smoked was when I first quit drinking about 7 years ago even then I had to think about when I wanted a cig. I never liked cigarettes and coffee together, a Cohiba and India Pale Ale is a different story. I'm a freak of nature I know. Don't worry I'm not going to go try crack to see if I'll get addicted to that, or heroin either. (I'm allergic to opiates anyway) Although a little doob always sounds good, but it's not in the cards right now. Seth

nevermind Seth

What the? Am I so self absorbed that I missed ExC's birfdai? Wow, happiness to a beautiful person. Seth

OK I'm sorry, about the knuckle heads comment, I got over whelmed. Hey it happens to me, when I'm faced with explaining myself, I've been a little edgy lately for reasons I cannot discuss here let's just say there was a betrayal and a theft recently and I'm trying to deal with that. I'm not feeling well enough to explain myself in detail, I will provide things to explore: Dr. Michio Kaku - Wikipage Truth be known What the Bleep Do We Know? Seth

No I didn't say that can do magic and miracles, go back and read it again. If a being having sufficiently advanced technology could do something we can't currently do like say instantly heal a wound then would it appear to be magic? I love how you folks take what I say and twist it to make your argument. String theory talks about other dimensions. I'm talking about willing to believe or ready to change my mind if there is sufficient evidence to reliably prove it. At the moment I've no proof of these things so I do not believe in them. I mean really am I talking knuckle heads here? Seth

Well there are terms for that, it's called media spin, however there are weak Atheists, meaning they are guided by logic and science but hold in their hearts the willingness to believe that science may find proof of other dimensional beings, or explanations for legends. I'm willing to believe that there may be other dimensions I cannot see, and it may be in those dimensions there are beings with sufficiently advanced technology that it would seem like magic or a miracle to me what they can do. This is a statistical long shot but given enough time and research we may make contact and find out ghosts and such are not dead human spirits, but adolescent antics performed by young highly advanced other dimensional aliens. You know the more advanced a race of beings the more important play is to their emotional development. I however do not base my life and actions on this belief, I don't try to build a dogma around it, and then invite people to join me in the quest to worship the pan-dimensional beings with advanced technology. There are people who do, scientologists and the Heaven's Gate group, maybe many others, they have taken a hope of a story that is plainly far fetched and made a religion around it. Even though I'm an Atheist I remain a hopeful skeptic, that is to say I know we are learning new things every day, if some new proof comes around I think I could change my mind about what I believe. Seth

First thing, love the quotes Mister P-Mosh. The best we know about one 6th of the world population considers themselves Atheist or Agnostic, we might have more but haven't had time to count them. You may ask why then haven't we heard from these Atheists? Well for the most part they mind their own business, aren't concerned with organizing or otherwise making a big deal about it. The other more important reason Atheists and to some extent Agnostics don't advertise their lack of belief is because religious people are very violent, this may insult most of you fine believers who are peaceful, but you need to understand this. Religion is a breeding ground for the scum of the earth, and that is not the fault of "Joe Churchgoer" but of the system, and the beliefs that make up the system. I'm sorry but this is my opinion. You cannot blame the whole problem on the extremists because if you were to ask a moderate and an extremist about a scripture that says god said kill those infidels, they would both agree that it's the right thing to do, but the extremist would actually do it. So the whole system is screwed because let's I say I'm Christian (but like to murder people, on a regular basis, but not those of the same faith) I'd still be forgiven and welcomed in church, and called a soldier for the lord, I call that crazy talk. Something I'd like to point out to my religious friends is that much of the modern day conveniences we have, the advanced medicine and life extending & saving drugs we all benefit from daily were invented by Atheists. Most to the greatest scientific breakthroughs of our age have been discovered by Atheists, and they don't turn around and say only Atheists can use these developments. You religious people need to get off your arrogant high horses. I mean the top three killers 100 years ago were Pneumonia, Diarrhea and the Flu, if it was up to religious people those still would be the top killers because instead of scientific discovery we'd have a church meeting and pray over it. This is all I have time to say right now. Go Atheists Go! Seth

My Favorite:

Thanks for your help, I'm wondering if I had one of them since childhood and just recently got the other from a deertick bite. My friend may have carried a hitchhiker into my house, and I might have picked up the tick from his clothes. I noticed a small bullseye on my hand, but it didn't look like what I saw online, so dummy me I ignored it. I hope don't have irreversible brain damage from it, if that's what I have. But the symptoms are explaining why I have developed these problems with memory and irritability and bad misspelling. Really frustrating. Seth

Congrat's can't wait to read it, you will remind us again in September? Seth

my headaches come and go, the lingering kind have been present at times, but I thought it was the weather, I was thinking it could be lyme. The chills are harder to nail, but yes, and the sweats night and day sometimes. Crap I don't think I had a blood draw for lyme. I've had a stiff neck for a while. Thanks for the concern, and lyme has come up more then 2 times in my past I better have it looked at. holy crap I looked at that booklet and I have most of the symptoms on the check list, the unexplained dental pain has been recent. Could I have had Lyme disease since grade school? Seth