FreeAtLast

Oprah? ah,,, no. Oprah comes off as though she is in the corner with the common man/woman, but I feel its because it sells. I often ask myself would she be doing this if there were no monetary return in it. If the station said Oprah. we'll let you do your show but we can't pay you. I don't think she would continue for very long. Nursing is very natural but not so much in our culture. For that woman to make an issue of nursng when the men were uncomfortable definitely defeated the cause. Had she gone to a private location and been sensitive to those men, the arrangement might have worked. there's definitely a time to fight for a cause and a time to use common courtesy around others.

unfortunately Condolisa has the race and sex thing against her. She does seem to have a strong ethic and I might consider her for office. She has been strong through many slams against her person. I wonder if a woman running for office puts her life at risk? Especially if they are competing with the evil Hilary.

Thanks Captain S.

I guess the only woman I picture is Hilary. That would be disasterous. But there are women out there that make sound decisions, and think logically and aren't evil, but do those kind of people make it in our political system.

dooj I am with you. Let's get the discussion back on track before this thread gets killed. There is still much to discuss on this topic.

I work in IT. It isn't fair in my field. I remember fixing a guys code knowing he made 15 dollars an hour more than I did. Now don't get me wromg I madea nice wage, but he made a good deal more and here I was correcting his work. When I asked him why he wrote the code the way he had he responded that he was a programmer not a business analyst and since it wasn't written in the spec he wasn't going to go the extra mile to have the code right. I remarked that we are programmer analysts and its our job to think. Not long after this event I was up for a promotion. I got pregnant so they gave it to a less qualified man. I guess a child made me unable to do the job.

Well to each his own. As long as it wasn't affecting other detrimentally then it's your own deal. Unlike the use of power in seducing women.

Ok, I don't know anything about the past posts you guys are speaking of, and for the reasons your fellowship people state I did stay away from GSC myself for a long time. Although I was an active member I avoided coming out here because I didn't want to get swallowed up in the past or in bitterness. I like that I am not controlled by the way anymore and I don't want to be reminded of my life "In". I am out here now because I have learned how to stay away from those subjects unless it's something I really want to sink my teeth into. As for this thread let's please not turn it into a forum for the past disagreements and please let's stick to the topic at hand. It's a good topic and we have gotten some real good input and insight out here and what I see starting to happen today has the potential to kill this thread in a heartbeat. The stuff we have been discussing have been issues for decades and to some degree continue to be. I know for one I perform my job as well as any man but am historically paid 20% lower than the men in my same role. Moving into management is generally given to a lesser qualified male than a more qualified woman. It's the way of the world even now after the "women's rights" movement. I am by no means a feminist, but I am a single mom raising 3 kids. It's not fair that I am penalized monetarily, and in career advancements because I was born female. Let's get back to the topic at hand and not what has happened in the past. Please!

Great points highway. Thanks for putting some of this stuff into perspective.

Couldn't say it any better CK. Jeaniam. That would be a great name as a counterpart to Johniam. Come out and play more often.

Captain S It took me a while to come to that conlusion. About 2 years but I had a counselor to help me along the path. He helped me get through my leaving the Way, my divorce, facing possible death because of a tumor in my heart, and the surgery that followed. He was a truly awesome man and helped me to quckly rethink my beliefs. I didn't abandon all and as a matter of fact held to many of the tenets that have shaped my life, but one of the beliefs I let go of was that I had the all truth because of what I learned in the Way. I had to come to the realization that maybe even my belief in God as I know him from the presentation of who he is in the bible may not be the real God. But being raised in christianity all my life that is what I have chosen to believe. However, I no longer try to change other people's opinions to match mine and I have learned to listen to other points of view. I don't have to believe what they believe, but I do have to respect what they believe. Someday I may find their beliefs to be true. I guess the in twi we learned intolerance.

GSG Happy Birthday!!! Have a great day. CK's picture to you is amazing. Where does she get these images.

Wow I must have been sheltered from all this poop. i don't ever remember even a hint of this stuff going on. I remember once after leaving the way seeing what I would consider soft porn at one of those slumber parties. As if the party wasn't embarassing enough but then they put that soft porn on the TV. Well I was completely embarassed and appalled and left the room. I wondered if it were my way upbringing that caused such a different reaction to this than the other women in the room had. I guess it couldn't have been that. lol Guess I am just a prude. I am finding these stories interesting. Funny 28 years and I never knew any of this stuff was going on until I come out here and boy did I get an eye opener with the sexual scandals and now this.

thanks for getting real John. I like the way you handled that situation with your wife and glad to hear you were just been a smart a$$. She must be a special lady to put up with you. lol. Now I am being the smart A$$. Congrats 18 years is a long time this day and time. looking forward to the day you post your 50th wedding anniversary.

MPM how exiciting. Best to you and the misses as you have your new baby. When is the new arrival due.

Capain S. Thanks for those kind words. They touched my heart. Sometimes I wonder if God is disappointed in me for not doing more. But I do what I can handle at the moment I suppose. You are sweet, thanks. Oh and thanks for the compliment on th pic.

John I am not sure if you are joking here or serious.

I personally am already stretched way too thin with work school and kids. I tried to get a local ex way person to do that at one time but he refused. I don't know if I even want to form an offshoot. It's just an ugly feeling that goes with being in organized anything biblical.

I just wanted to state something more here. Women are in the military and every day on my way to work I see women working on the highways and in the building trades. We could step up and provide these services. Don't think we can't do this ourselves. That's not really the point. This is not a man woman war. I love men. I want to be a wonderful partner to an awesome man someday. I want that companionship and team work that a couple can have. I want to be holding hands with the man I love when I am in my 70's. But,,,,not to lose myself in the process.

QT you're my hero. lol Gotta love RG. She's one amazing woman. What that woman has had to contend with most of her life and she still stays positive. Gotta edit this to thank Cowgirl and Rascal for your support on this. So Rascal what is our place? lol. Donna Reed, pearl wearing, mindless housekeeper and mother. Or is it barefoot and pregnant. It's no wonder I am single. I just can't figure out what my place is.

Wow I wonder what kind of relationships you have been in? I know in my marriage I had very little authority and if I overstepped it I was reprimanded (until the end when I started standing up for myself). If I so much as bought myself a CD I was given hell. Every time I came home with a new outfit for one of the kids I was afraid of the response I might get. In the end I did rebel a bit and bought myself a few CDs and when my ex questioned me I finally didn't cower, and he backed off. I was married for nearly 13 years and was sick for most of that because the man that was "supposed" to love me didn't trust me to understand my body and felt my trips to the doctors was a waste of money. I finally divorced him and felt free to explore my physical problems and found that I had a tumor in my heart. I would have been dead soon. I don't think that is indicative of my having authority over my man. Heck I didn't even have authority over my own body and its well being. He also did many things without even consulting me. Quitting the corps being the biggest one, not that I want that distinction anymore but at the time it was the one thing I was most proud of accomplishing. I got home from work to find out I was no longer corps and that there was nothing I could do about it. It was a done deal. But that is only one example of how I was rarely consulted on such decisions, like the first week of marriage when he just disappeared. I was worried, then he returned with new mattresses and a frame. I had no say in that purchase yet I had to sleep on the bed. You are mistaken if you think women have the authority you claim we have. even in my marriage I made 2/3 of the income but not even 1/2 of the say (until the end that is, when I decided to stop being run like a child.) I don't know many women who have the authority you speak of. Truly I believe that a man and woman should work together. That no one should necessarily have authority over the other. I feel that each brings to the relationships their strengths and in their area of strength they should be the one that is deferred to. Finally there are always going to be disagreements in every category not just financial, and in those areas the man biblically has the final say if no compromise or synergy is attainable. I will never allow a man to make me feel like a child again. Finally I would love to be a traditional mom. I would love to be home with my kids and for much of their younger lives I was able to do that on and off because my work as a consultant allowed that. But now it's not possible so I am changing fields and will be teaching in a couple years which will provide me a schedule that somewhat mimics the schedule my kids have. But in all that I am a strong intelligent woman capable of making decisions, and having authority in areas of life. No one is suggesting that we overrun our men in the category of authority but the idea was posed that a woman should never have authority over a man. And even in the bible there were women who had authority over men.

Thanks Rascal good advice.

I know Bolshevic, I am the same way. I want those kiddos to have something to grow up with like I did and the knowledge that I had available to me but I get frustrated with all the churches I have attended. I also hate them coming up to you like you are an infidel, and need to be saved. It's pompous and ticks me off. Also there is usually a big doctrinal issue I can't tolerate. And I can't sing songs about Jesus being God either. My kids have a good bit of the word but not like I did when I was a kid. And my oldest even though I teach her what the Word says about it thinks homosexuality is ok. Although I have learned not to be offensive toward anyone that has made the choice to engage in homosexuality, and don't shun them because of their choice, I still don't agree with their choices. My oldest on the otherhand believes they can't help it, and that they are born with that trait. It's hard knowing they won't grow up with what I had, but I can't tolerate the Way either.

Happy birthday!!! Glad it was a awesome day for you.