HAPe4me

WASHINGTON (Dec. 10) - Former Minnesota Sen. Eugene J. McCarthy, whose insurgent campaign toppled a sitting president in 1968 and forced the Democratic Party to take seriously his message against the Vietnam War, died Saturday. He was 89. I met him once, he inspired a generation to stand for what they believed in. Be at peace Senator McCarthy. :( , and thank you for all you did for a sometimes not so grateful nation. ~HAP

toad, you cheated too? I thought I was the only one! I also was at the AC73 one. I agree, I think it was presented as a fun, youth camp type silly thing. However, I do know a few who took it more seriously that year, but give them a break, Everyone was young and naive, or we wouldn'ta been there! ~HAP

Belle- The value of old books, like most anything else collectible is only as much as you can find a buyer willing to pay. That means you need books by collectible authors, or themes (such as childrens books). I will see if I can find the websites I used when pricing books in my parents estate, they had "the library", a converted former large masterbedroom, floor to ceiling with books. but for now.... 1- I am not sure what you mean by the term "antique" how old are they primarily? 2- With a few exceptions, their condition will be a HUGE determining factor. 3- watch for autographs in them, could be in the front pages or in the back. (Be sure it is a real autograph, and not a printed rendition.) Autographs and first editions are without a doubt where the real money is in old (or even new) books. 4- watch for the term "First Edition" on the copyright page, especially if it is not followed by 2nd, third, ....42nd printing. 5. Books with illustrations are generally more desirable. A few pages of pictures, often in the middle. 6. Protect any that still have a cover 7. Are the "sets" complete? (Do you have all the published volumes of the set) If not, there may be of value still, if you can find someone who is missing one you have, they may pay as much for that one volume as for a partial set. 8. enter the name of the book, (or set) in google. Put the title in quotes, also put the author's name in the search. Also check on ebay. I do not want to dampen your hopes, but it is a rare book indeed that is worth what you describe as "thousands of dollars". Most are worth a few dollars, some 30-50. I have a complete set of the "Harvard Classics, in excellent condition, from the first year they were offered, (1910?) I can only get 200 for the set, (not that I would sell them). I am impressed with the joy and ferver with which our grandparents held reading fine literature. I have several sets of leatherbound shakespeare over 100 years old. Good luck, ~HAP

I for one am: a) impressed with the new chatroom B) NOT impressed with the new java (it is slow loading and behaves awkwardly c) thinking about how I can dump this new java and go back to the old one. Anyone know how to do that? You should be able to get into the room with the OLD java, just some of the new chat features may not be available to you. They are not at all crucial to enjoying visits with us caffeinated chatroom junkies. Before clicking that stupid "upgrade now" button, the room worked fine except for getting the avatars (which are better than what we had-none-, but not all that inspiring. ~HAP

An interesting and useful thread, Wordwolf. These are my recollections, dates and times are confusing after all these years: 1972: I took PFAL the first time in 1972 in Peoria, IL. Becky Belcher (later Fugit) and Dave Pettit were also in that class. Three WOWS were originally sent 71-72 to Peoria, only two were there by January when they found me. I think the rumor was that the third had left the field and had committed suicide, but such things were not talked about openly of course. Beth Harris from NY could be seen somewhere in the Life? magazine picture of "Groovy Christians" I was told. Bruce Bell came from Witchita. I cleaned my parents house for 4 weeks to raise the money. Dave pawned his guitar. We had fun, being part of sort of a renegade type church, sort of a counter-culture. I don't recall many restrictions on our doings, but drugs and sex were not a part of the twig scene proper. I remember all going to a rock concert, and "mother Becky" making sure we behaved ourselves. No pot, "be good witnesses", that sort of thing. Becky radiated peace and serenity, a real woman of God. Many people would come through town, Steve Kunkle, Tommy Crabb, and of course Donnie Fugit. He was there for our 12th session. I think Becky set her mind then and there that he was gonna be her husband. His "Kicking the Hogs and Praising the Lord" was the song we would sing for the next 14 years, when thinking of those early Peoria days. Up in northern IL, John Desmond led another group of believers in Antioch. They started before Peoria. (I always figured Desmond went there for its name alone). As the senior Way believer in IL at the time, he came down to run our intermediate class. During that year the WOWs (and us) put together several other PFAL classes. Bunches of sweet people. Carolyn Young, her sister Megan, Dawn Clary, Ray Brasga, Brad Hinch and his brother (name escapes me now)...... ROA 72 was huge for us coming from such an ungrown state. We stood NOT alone! what a revelation. Hope Harmon sang, I was infatuated I remember. A movie was made of ROA72. Becky and I made the cuts in the film, but not the BetaVideo. (we are near the beginning, as we enter the grounds.) Was it Sydney that year? I remember, it rained- was there a Rock when it didn't? Rain was nice, it cooled us off, rain was bad, it got muddy. mixed blessings. 1973- more classes. Wit and Und, CF&S, they kept coming. more and more classes. Finally we had all those collateral classes. It was time for AC73 at HQ. It rained. The wind blew. Fortunately I had brought my parent's pop-up camper. It was a good thing. many tents blew down, and we slept 15 in that little 6 man camper. Seating in class was by alphabet I recall. I got to know all the P names. Pavlica, Panyard, Parrish. I thought how collegiate this was. I was also impressed by the roofing pattern on the barn. I had never seen letters worked into a roof before. I knew we had friends there, Howard Allen told us strangers are friends we haven't met before. We felt welcome. It was fun. One of the last nights of the AC we were invited to be inititated into the secret "innermost sanctums of the Way" VPW, and other of the "names" were there. They were dressed in black, with hoods, around a bonfire. I don't recall much of the ceremony now, but in the end, we were given a piece of a root (maybe horseradish?) to eat. If we ate it we would be part of the inner wisdom and pledged to loyalty to the ministry. Maybe it was Bo who made the rounds distributing the stuff. I faked it, never swallowed (or inhaled?). My fate was written in the stars then. God had seen me cheat. Christmas of 73, we decided we would call IL a limb, even though it was not yet so designated. I invited Mr. and Mrs. W to come and teach at our first "Limb meeting" I think it was Dec 23rd, and asked if he would bring some of the music ministry. I was awakened one morning by someone on the phone saying she was Dr. Wierwille's secretary, and that Dr. wanted to talk to me. I said Riiiiiggggttttt. I hung up. Phone rang again. "this is REALLY Dr. Wierwille's secretary...." I stayed on the phone this time, and Dr. thanked me for the invite, and accepted. He would bring Ted amd Mardelle and Claudette. I was giddy, mostly I think for the music. A letter with the details would follow he said. The letter told us we would be responsible for his expenses, gas rooms for the special guests. He took the liberty of inviting Don and his wife, but would pay for their room himself. They would arrive the day before, and Dr. would do a special teaching, for twig leaders only that night, before the day long events the next day. Preparations became hectic as December came. A day before the date, Bo Reahard came to town to make sure things were ready. They weren't. The "Way Home" was not nearly clean enough for the Man of God to teach twig leaders. We all worked through the night, Bo included, cleaning every nick and cranny of that old 100 year old house. The Wierwilles drove themselves in one car. Ted, Mardelle and Claudette in another. I think they were black Lincolns, but now I am not sure. I remember I had expected them to have chauffeurs, but was impressed that they didn't. Wierwille taught that night, he sat in the nicest chair/throne we had. The arm broke immediatley. We were heartbroken at our failure to foresee that, and somewhat concerned for his reaction. It turned out we needn't have been. Dr. laughed and said "Better call Wierwille Upholstery" (I think that was a reference to Uncle Harry's business???) He went on and taught. we were awed. The next day was exciting and Ted's music was awesome. Claudette of course did "Amazing Grace" chills and thrills! Mrs. Wierwille presented me with a Christmas tree shaped candle for organizing the event. I still have most of it. A month later, the bill from HQ arrived. While I had hoped to have extra funds to send as a gift to HQ, I found that we were 3 dollars short of his bill. Still, I thought that was pretty cool that God had covered the expenses so well. I did learn that Wierwille was a good tipper though, it was all on the itemized bill from HQ. I remember escorting Wierwille to his room. en route Bo asked me to go buy several bottles of Drambouie and bring them to the room. I was shocked. I had never bought liquor before, and now, for the Man of God of the world?????? What was Drambouie I wondered. I did it anyway, and brought it in plain brown bags, kind of like smuggling it in, so that no other of the local believers would know. I was invited to share a glass with them. I was "in"! Maybe God didn't see me cheat afterall with that root thing. 1974- Illinois really became a limb. I ran a branch that ran from LaSalle-Peru down through Peoria to Pittsfield. I traveled running classes. My expenses (food and gas) were paid and taken out of the branch area blue forms. I was not paid other than that. Gerald Wrenn moved to a mansion like home in Bloomington, or was it Champaigne? The company I worked for donated the material and our labor to do aluminum siding on the house. It was a big job. Sammy Wilson came from HQ to Peoria that summer to take over the branch as I was going to go and grow as a WOW. I went to Allentown, PA. WOW year was somewhat uneventful, ahem, except for meeting my wife-to-be as my WOW sister. I don't remember much else. We were allowed an occassional weekend off, which we used to go to NY city once, and Philadelphia another time. We also could go home for Christmas that year. I think that was not allowed in later years. sometime in spring, Terri and I wrote to Wierwille and said we were getting married instead of coming into the 6th corps. He gave his blessing to our choice, we were relieved by that. 1975- After the Rock I went home to Peoria for 2 months to earn money to move to CO and get married. I arrived in November 1st, and Terri and I immediately rented an apartment. Hendley the next day learned we planned to live together even though he would not marry us until the 29th of the month. Uh uh- we could not do that. Bad witness. I thought it strange, since we had lived together for a year as WOWs, but acceded to my leadership (kind of, sometimes, mostly, sort of). Its been a great 30 years with a remarkable lady. I think it was around here that conspiracy theories began to permeate the thinking of the more spiritually alert folks (thats a joke). Sometime around this time the "Myth of the 6 Million" made it to us minions. I angered my dad when talking of it, and I found out my grandmother was jewish. I was embarrassed by my ignorance and his hurt, and swore to from then on only teach and speak what I understood, and could show from the Word. I think I did that the rest of my days in TWI. I think my Dad forgave me, I hope so. Those theories were never important to me, and I failed to see how they moved the word. 1976- America Awakes. We heard rumors of the secret rewrite of the constitution. I recall something about the Illuminati, and I remember seeing various John Birch writings which tried to prove our fears. My thoughts were that fear was the devil's thing, and we should not have it. It seemed like we were the last stand of defense. It became very spiritual and secret. We all read "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" We prayed, we did several 24 hour of prayer things, simply said, we were told we saved the country. We were the TRUE patriots. The music caravan, motorcoach etc toured the country. We celebrated "God's" victory. I thought it was silly and superficial. I guess what I have tried to portray, is that in these years we had fun, we were serious, but not overbearing or anal about things. I had heard nothing about sex or drugs being a major part of the minsitry at this time, in fact, it seemed to be less so than in the "worldly" segments of our generation. We celebrated the freedom we had through our salvation and our saviour, but at the same time, we tried to be witnesses of a godly life. We tried to walk our talk and talk our walk. (a phrase we often spoke). when the conspiracy things came, we tried to do our part to raise awareness, but MANY of us remained true to our initial reasons of signing on with God. We taught hot bible, (or tried to- some with better ability than others, most better'n me probably), we preached and lived love and tenderness, we truly cared about each other's well being, health and spiritual growth. Years later when I left the Way fellowships, I could do so without bitterness or hate, because I had remained true to myself, and in my mind at least, true to my God. ~HAP

OK, I will be later than anyone else so far! Happy birthday Paw. Thinking of you. ~HAP

They are for real???? Are you confusing ALF and ELF with PETA? (gawd, why am I even spending time researching an organization I have never received mail from?, let alone ever considered donating to? :( ) Can you cite some of these acts resulting in injuries? PETA's main offense seems to be having made donations to defense funds for defendants connected to ALF. I do not find them named in criminal complaints with those incidents however. Perhaps I am not entering the right search terms. The complaint has been that PETA does not disavow the activities of these groups, but not that they have performed these illegal acts resulting in injuries. The association I made with Saddam's WMDs was in relation to your charge that a virus would be sent to those who email PETA with a disagreeing view. You've got enough firewalls and antivirus stuff, why not try it? and by the way, I would never argue "but animals aren't moral creatures like us humans" I consider that flawed on two counts. :lol: ~HAP

Krys- related how??????? a fascinating bit of innuendo and what WOULD be their prime directive???? We may disagree with their interpretation of what constitutes stewardship, salvation, or ethics, but I think most of their adherents indeed fancy themselves to be primarily concerned with these goals. It would be intersting to hear what you think their "prime directives" are in fact. ~HAP

I don't know which is more unlikely, Ron and Garth agreeing or Garth and I disagreeing!!! :o Yeah Garth, they might target those who correspond, and Saddam had weapons of mass destruction ready to be used on us tomorrow, so we were told. First, I am not a member of PETA, I hunt and fish, always have, always will. I actually have no fondness for PETA at all, other than I like to see people passionate about SOMETHING. I figure that passion will translate at some point in their life to something I might agree with. Our politics and views change, but if we just don't give a shi-it, nothing we do will ever amount to beans. I dislike misinformation when it is posted from either side of an issue. Apparently I was incorrect on my initial assessment, but it was based on the internet postings at the time. A day makes a big difference. The PETA site does now mention the handouts Ron referred to, and states that their policy is to not give them to children under 13, but rather to fathers directly, "so they will think about the message they giove their kids" I am sure there are some zealots of this gang who do not follow the stated goals and aims of the organization. Ummm, is that like another group we know of? Anyway, thanks Drtydzn for your chiming in. I wanted to post that link to their e-mail also, but figured why bother. Apparently Garth missed the CONTACT US button. The site also has PETA's financial report available, so it is not quite like that "other" organization we know of. For everyone's information if it isn't obvious, being vegatarian, or even vegan, does not necessarily emanate from one's views about animal welfare. It can simply relate to a preferance on food to eat, or an opinion on what is good nutrition for one's self. I know several, who follow both those diet choices, and PETA is not part of their lives. ~HAP

yawn .... Ron, did you see anyone handing out this flyer with your own eyes?although this has made the news again since it is being recirculated by anti PETA blogs, the leaflet was used by PETA only in 2003 from what I could find, and I could not find it to order in their literature section. Even the sites that show the pic, (like the one Ron copied it from) have it in their archives. (right click on the "mommy" pic , and click on properties. that site has been gone for almost a year now) Seems to me that someone who is anti-PETA is trying to perpetuate what was obviously an ill-concieved campaign, and was not done in PETA's style in the first place. Can you smell something fishy? P.S. According to their FAQ section on their website, they do not have any aims on plants. You can see their website at www.peta.org ~HAP

Remembering from my early teen years: You know you are from Alaska when: you find yourself playing baseball at midnight, without lights. you can go down towards Valdez from Anchorage , goldpan for the day, and have enough thrills and memories to last a lifetime. (And enough nuggets to make a few tie tacks mounted on Alaskan jade.) Ahh, was a privilege to have lived in the big state. However, I do have a picture of myself here in Colorado, standing on a roof, with my tool belt on, fishing pole in hand, and playing a brown trout in the brook below. I captioned it: "Tis a privilege to WORK in Colorado" ~HAP

As the father of one vegan and one vegetarian, I am not allowed in the kitchen when they come either. Well, I am allowed, but if they want to eat, I let THEM do the cooking. I'll bring the wine. ~HAP

Welcome home BroSpeed. Very glad you did so safely, now for the rest of your comrades. ~HAP

A sunSET picture eh? That should have been a clue to mark that as the end of your TWI days. :) ~HAP

awww now Krys, the proper way to look at this is that your prayers saved all of japan from the debils evil plan. all hail the power of Krys's prayers

I figure a business forum would likely get as much traffic as the Decaf Politics forum. I kinda like Shell's thought on a Health forum however. As most the GS folks are getting on in years (read that "maturing") health issues begin to come more into play. There seems to be more chat and threads about health than there are concerning business. That would seem to indicate to me that there is more interest in the health topic. As for my business (construction/remodeling), I don't travel to do my services so my role in a business forum would be to offer advice to homeowners hiring others, or to do it yourselfers. Both of those could just as easily be done on a normal "open" thread should anyone be seeking such info and help. Post a thread or come to late night chat and ask away. I had already clicked the vote yes for a forum ballot, and couldn't uncheck it. Must be a republican county here. (maybe I should move to Florida and get voting lessons). Anyway, I am ambivalent towards a business forum in reality. Would check it out and see if I could be of free service somwhere in it. But then, as my karma says, my advice is worth everything you pay for it. ~HAP

between Dmiller and I we make up one sensible soul. Its a pendulum thing. Get your behind into chat bro, or I will come kick your behind. ~HAP

david, just close your eyes and jump thru the door. It is a believing leap of faith (snort)

ok, I see Paw is here with you. hope he can help you through the door

Dmiller, the opening screen seems to take a long time to load, try just waiting on it for 2 minutes or so?

The boys and I use freecycle all the time. I got and gave some landscape materials for my boulder house project that way, and also got rid of some things from the deconstruction and the years of renters that were in the place before I owned it. I also use www.craigslist.com all the time. when you go to that page, it willl be the Sanfranscisco version. Click on the "craigslist" link at the top left of the page and it will give you all the hundreds of other locales with local specific stuff. Craigslist has places to give, trade, sell, everything from services, jobs, housing, bikes, you name it. Check it out, been using both polaces for 2 years or so, after my college kids turned me on to them. ~HAP

yeah Goey, but CG never seems to participate that night ~HAP

no Nellie, the real reason we don't chat is because you steal our pants (color). No wonder it is naked night on Wednesday

Our newspaper here just started running Sudoku a few weeks ago. They rotate easy medium and hard versions each day. I can't get out of the house in the morning until it is done. It has taken over the cryptoquip in my morning routine. On medium and hard puzzles I go thru each box and write the possible results in each box. From there it gets easier, if you learn the next steps of elimination. ~HAP

congrats Groucho! ~HAP