HAPe4me

Some here would say he is trying to tell you something Abi! More likely he is telling Jacob something. I really don't know what to do about it. I would think it was some marking of territory thing most likely. A real off the wall idea might be to have Jacob counter his mark with one of his own. I can't imagine that working, but ummmm it was first thought.....Sort of a pi$$ng match? Does Jacob favor one dog more than the other? Is it a call for attention? Are both dogs male? Has Jacob hit puberty recently? ~HAP

I for one choose to accept Jonny's explanation that, in not so many words, he was being drunk and disorderly on the other forum and thought better of it when he came here. again already, bye Jonny. Is there some record number of posts on a goodbye thread? Are we there yet? Please say we are. ~HAP

LOL you have way too much time if you count how many posts are on a page before you post! I just noticed you did not edit the line about being on top, so I figured there must be some way you know. Now I understand, the secret is being able to count that high.

how do you know your post is gonna be on top before you click "add reply"??????

The movie was also about it being just plain wrong to hate others who are trying to help themselves. (i.e. the town folk hating and abusing the kids at the school.) Such hatred will come back to bite us in the ars as Billy Jack taught the more combative of the townies. ~HAP

Kathy- You are referring perhaps to THIS song?: ONE TIN SOLDIER (The Legend of Billy Jack) words and music by Dennis Lambert and Brian Potter Copyright © 1969 by ABC / Dunhill Music, Inc. Listen children to a story that was written long ago 'bout a kingdom on a mountain and the valley folk below. On the mountain was a treasure buried deep beneath a stone, and the valley people swore they'd have it for their very own. So the people of the valley sent a message up the hill asking for the buried treasure, tons of gold for which they'd kill. Came an answer from the kingdom: "With our brothers we will share all the secrets of our mountain, all the riches buried there." Now the valley cried with anger; mount your horses, draw your sword, and they killed the mountain people, so they won their just reward. Now they stood beside the treasure on the mountain, dark and red, turned the stone and looked beneath it. "Peace on earth" was all it said. Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend. Do it in the name of heaven, justify it in the end. There won't be any trumpets blowin' come the judgment day on the bloody morning after one tin soldier rides away. The movie, Legend of Billy Jack, was hardly about isolating ourselves and taking care of our own selves. IMO, it was about reaching out, helping others who are different then ourselves, and the moral was that the weaker can ban together and help themselves in spite of the odds, although there may be some expense to their own lives. I especially like the chorus lines: Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend. Do it in the name of heaven, justify it in the end. There won't be any trumpets blowin' come the judgment day on the bloody morning after one tin soldier rides away. ~HAP

Sir???? my dad was called Sir, but he was in the army at the time. I certainly do not require or probably deserve such respect, judging by the way I can't interpret anymore. LOL ~HAP

Referring to you with what post? Gad? that was not tongues, it was simply devine utterance. Or at least a devine word and fun to say. ~HAP

Gad!

Chatty- I thought I explained that there was another thread 2 pages back. Glad you finally are uncornfused. (wondering how long that will last) LOL You forgot to bring over the TITLE to his 'Tacks" thread, Jonny titled it: YEE HAWWWW! Such an over-the-top cry was enough to sink one Howard Dean's presidential campaign hopes in 2004. (I still don't get why that sunk him, but I guess many people did not like the in-your-face way that Dean shouted.) anyway- bye Jonny ~HAP

Dooj- point taken. sorry- back to the goodbyes. Bye Jonny ~HAP edit add: I meant to be only making a point of clarification, as some do not ever see Politaks, and thus wondered where Oak found his quote. sorry if I went awry.

Perhaps what raised the questions/comments Oak and Rocky mentioned was the fact that Jonny first announced on the Politaks page he got a wonderful financial windfall and was now leaving GSC. On that forum, there was no mention that he was leaving for family or his own well-being, only that he had lots of money now and was leaving. Period. 30 minutes later he started this thread, in Open, where he made no reference to his "blessings" but that it was time to move on for his family. Some of us just wonder which it is? I am glad either way that he found a reason for himself to move on. ~HAP

Robes- you were the first I met here at the cafe, how could I forget you? You were so welcoming when others seemed skittish at a newbie. I appreciated it. HAPPY BIRTHDAY! ~HAP

ok, since Polar Bear didn't write a Dear Jon letter: Dear Jonny- Bye,there's someone else! ^_^ ~HAP (edited to correct spelling)

Cold or not right now, Switzerland is a nice place to go to, hang out for awhile, r4elax, and get out of from the EU for a bit and get your passport restamped before going back for another 3 months to an area with a warmer clime. ~HAP

Ducttape- pffft. so now I am dishonest? That is sumpin nobody has called me in 40 years, and I doubt many here would agree with that assessment, certainly not Ron. hehe, its one of the few things I am not. What is it you consider dishonest of what I have said? Where did I try to control anything? Perhaps send it to me in a PM, if YOU think it doesn't belong here. I certainly wouldn't want to try and control where you answer. gad. Ron- I would be surprised if you took my post that way, as many years as we have exchanged stuff, but if YOU took my post in any way as trying to control what you say, I apologize to you. Of course you and I disagree on many things, but we have always managed to do so good naturedly. The subtitle of the thread is "why some don't like them" (meaning vegit/vegans), and all I meant to do is ask if the originator of the thread wanted to go another direction with it, out of respect for him/her, not out of disrespect for your right to post. Maybe it was that respect that was misunderstood by Ducttape. Oh well I am outta here for the weekend, so enjoy yourselves. ~HAP

by the way, for those concerned with getting enough protein from a vegan diet: http://www.vegparadise.com/protein.html#Charts It is quite easy to get protein RDA met. The RDA is primarily based body weight, I believe for a 50 year old male weighing 150 lbs, its it around 60gr. Female closer to 50gr. While steaks are high in protein, they are also high in fat, so there is a heavy (pardon the pun) trade-off. take your choices and enjoy some variations. Coolchef a quick google search putting the word vegan in front of your favorite dish, (i.e. primavera, alfredo, .....) will yield any number of recipes to try. The biggest difficulty in my experience is melted vegan cheeses do not generally have the same consistency as standard cheeses. The overall tastes that can be derived however are every bit as good, and nutritionally wonderful. Good luck (standard cheeses, being dairy products, is not vegan) ~HAP

All I did was ask whether it was welcome to wander into the PETA pi$$ing match, or if this was going to be about be reactions to/from vegetarians/ vegan in general, as I originally understood the intent (perhaps mistakenly). I had no intent on controlling the thread Stickyone, but I do not see them as the same subject. Perhaps I should start a thread for you called "Be in a bad mood HERE==>". ~HAP

Is this thread going to be about PETA and similiar organizations, or about vegans and the way they individually come across to meateaters? I don't wish to discuss Ron's points if the thread is on the latter. I see them as two very separate issues, as not all vegans support PETA, and not all PETA supporters are vegan. ~HAP

hah, excat got Chatkat's coveted top of the page slot.

blah humbug. thanks for the "in your face" attempt at pffft humor. Personally, I think such reverse contentiousness is every bit as annoying as any overzealous defender of animal rights. Certainly some will think it funny, not unlike some of those who applaud blowing up carlots of SUVs or cutting fences at feed lots. I don't consider either the least bit humerous. ~HAP

Yikes, I see this turned into a really long post- but I had fun writing it, and ohhhh the memories it brings back to me. I hope you find it entertaining. I am a bit taken back by what seems to be many people's experience with Vegans and Vegetarians. It has not at all been my experience. I guess maybe I have had one or two times where someone got kindy preachy, but the huge majority of the time there has been no problem. I have been to vegan graduation parties, and found the fare tasty and the guests quite enjoyable. The chocoalate cake at the last one was unbelievable, and made with no dairy. I have seen SOMETIMES people are defensive when they meet vegans, and take whatever is said as being "pushy", when it is our own misunderstanding on the diet that is at fault. One of my boys and his girlfriend of several years is vegetarian, they will eat dairy products and eggs. She actually has been vegetarian since she was old enough to prepare food for herself in her meateater parent's home (about age 11). My other son and his girlfriend are VERY staunch vegans for over three years. They will not eat anything with animal products in it. They are devout label readers, and not afraid to ask a restaurant if they have any question. (yes, they stay away from leather shoes, and try extremely hard to purchase clothes and whatever made without any animal contributions. there is really quite a burgeoning market for them now. The vegan kids seriously pursue this, FOR THEIR OWN BETTERMENT AND CONSCIENCE, and I applaud them for doing so. It is alot of work. Their nutrition is very balanced, achieved through self education and research. I completely fail to understand people's imagination here that vegans lack necessary nutrients, especially the comments on protein. What, do you guys think protein only comes from meat? When they visit our home, they cheerfully prepare dinner for all of us, and they have been the tastiest, flavorful and most nutritionally balanced meals I have ever had the pleasure of enjoying. It does take them several hours to prepare these feasts, but it is their joy and hobby to do so. Even their daily meals at their home take more time than I do to slap an animal on the grill. but I have no concern for their well-rounded nutrition. I spent 3 weeks with them in Italy and Germany, 24 hours a day. Food was never an issue, nor did they ever make their personal lifestyle a burden or any confrontation with my wife and I, (both meateaters- but learning) Italy was easy, lots of outdoor markets with beans, vegetables and variety, and many bio-stores with numerous products for them to indulge in. They graze throughout the day, as they pass markets etc. Even the better gilato spots have 3 or 4 non-dairy varieties. No faces were made whatsoever when I often steered away from vegan diets and partook of the local lamb, fish or whatever the local specialty was. Not once. The kids joined in with the same great conversation skills, no matter what anyone else was eating. Conversing cheerfullly with us and the locals. Now, Germans are ALL about their sausages and cheese, I was a little concerned about whether they would be able to find sufficient foods while there, since they knew very little German and depended on me to help translate once we left "their country". There was no need to fret. I was visiting a German friend I met online 9 years ago doing genealogy research, and have kept up with him till we finallly met in person this fall. The first night in Idstein, he and his wife had prepared a "coldcut and vegetable plate" for us after our 12 hour train from Venice. Eric nibbled at what he could eat, and was his usual gracious self. When our host kept trying to get him to try some of the sausage and cheese varieties, he calmly declined. Eventually in order to explain and not seem ungrateful, he did finally explain his life-style, but certainly with no sense of confrontation or dissatisfaction. The next day we were on our own as Wolfgang had to work. The following day we drove across Germany to the east, stopping at Wartburg, where Martin Luther hid from the Pope as he translated the bible into German.. Most European hotels include a full breakfast with the rate. We figured there would be a few things the kids could eat, fruit, some of the breads, whatever, enough to make it through the morning anyway. Neither the kids nor myself would have any intention of bringing up their special diet preferences, we'd just make do. Well, sure enough at the first breakfast, we walk in and there are 15 different meats, 12 different cheeses, eggs, breads, fruits and yogurts spread out. As we sit and start with coffee, the owner of the hotel and restaurant comes to the table, with a basket in his hands. He turns to Eric and Alycia, and says, (in a German /English mix) "for our special friends from America, I have prepared this basket especially for you." It was loaded with $30 of specially selected foods from the bio-store! totallly animal-free and delicious. My friend's wife apparently had called in the afternoon on her Handi as we drove, and told Herr Abendroth of Eric and Alycia. Incredible! It was certainly gratefully received yet unexpected and unnecessary. They had a new basket every morning for the week we were guests. At night, Herr Abendroth specially prepared an off- menu dinner dish for them too! If Eric had in anyway offended my friend by refusing his meats, or in the way he explained his preferences, or if in any manner it was imagined that he was confrontational, I can't see this grace having been extended to him. Anyway, I wanted to share these experiances of a different kind about some vegans I truly love to be around. They and their many friends who I have mete are always welcome here. I know there will be plenty of laughs as they point out the ingredients I missed on whatever I bought, some calm and rational discussion on the subject, and we will eat hardily, all with smiles. ~HAPe2eat what is set before him

Lisa, Thank you so much for stopping in on such hard day to let us know so promptly. It was sweet of you, as was his willingness to inform us ahead of time as to his health. It took much of the pain away from us, and I hope from you. Of this I am certain Lisa. You were the crown of his life, and this cannot be expressed better than what he wrote himself: Peace be yours, as you face the many tasks ahead. I am thankful your father smoothed the way for you for your life ahead. ~HAPe4me

uhoh, I see I am going off-topic here, but gotta say it anyway. In the late 1800s, the Colorado Constitution was written in 3 languages, English Spanish and German, to accomodate the mix of languages spoken by the residents of the territory. If a private business wishes to encourage the use of its product or services to a larger clientele than it behooves them to make such interactions as pleasant and clear as possible. If they wish to blow off these lucrative potential customers, then I suggest those customers take their business elsewhere. I hope they let their treatment be known to others. It is amazing to see how easily misunderstandings can arise by what a native speaker might think are simple terms. If a government agency is charged with providing services to a clientele that may or may not be adept yet in American English, it is a good thing to provide clearly understood instructions in a variety of languages. Canada has done it for years with French and English. Perhaps we should make citizenship a two class thing. Class A are those who have passed all the other citizenship requirements, but do not yet have a solid understanding of legal terms and contracts. Class B is everyone else. Hey!, lets add: if a member of Class A has not showed sufficient progress within 1 year towards Class B citizenship, their Class A citizenship is revoked. Lets do away with TTY/TDD while we are at it, untill deaf people provide their own interpretors or learn to speak. We ARE speaking of legal residents here, otherwise they would not be involved with gettiing assistance from a government agency. Never mind that English is considered by linguists to be one the most difficult to learn, especially of the european languages. How fortunate we are to have grown up with it since we now want to require everyone to do so. I wonder how long it takes to learn and understand all the gobbledygook terms government beaucrats spit out? I do not understand why it is so objectionable to provide information in a language other than English. European bus and train stations have at least 3 languages prominently displayed. Menus are that way also. So are the signs at tourist attractions and ATMs (Bancomats). The aisle signs at a German Obi store (looks just like a Home Depot) I went to were not written in English, but I understand that one nearer to a US Army Post does in fact have both. I have been putzing (what language is THAT) around with German for a number of years, and am finally a little more comfortable writing to my German friends without always using a translation program. Even so, I still am not sure I understood all my legal rights in that police station in Dresden in October, even though I helped them find the English version of the forms on their computer. I am glad they had them available. We often are told that "our immigrant ancestors" learned English quickly, but recently I sifted through census records from the late 1800s to 1920, and found that it was often reported for two censuses (at least 11 years) that the primary language of the head of household was the language of their birthplace. There certainly was no overnight skill attained. Often it was the second generation who finally reported English ability. It is SOOOoooooo inconvenient to press 1 for english., I have to actually use one of my fingers. (sigh) ~HAP