HAPe4me

I have not read this thread, and I see it is 2 years old.....so maybe someone else has pointed this out: VPW was heard to say that the value of a counterfeit is only as good as its proximity to the real thing (or something like that he said). Who better to know that than the master counterfeiter himself? ~HAP

However you choose to get them (and keep them) out of your attic, I encourage you to do so quickly. In spite of Ham being a friendly squirelly sort, YOUR rodents can do lots of damage. This time of year they enjoy nesting near the warmth of ceiling light fixtures. What they bring to build a nest with can be extremely flammable, and they have been known to gnaw on nearby electric wires. I have traced electrical problems in a house to squirrel nests, and found "short circuited" squirrels still attached to the wires. Many insurance policies do not cover rodent damage by the way. You might check yours. ~HAP

no argument from me Dooj

Ihave NOT heard that homeschooling per se has been blamed, only the particular program he was in. Even at THAT, I am certain not ALL who use that program turn out like he did. Obviously there were many contributing factors. I want to make it clear I do not paint all homeschool programs with a single brush, nor all homeschoolers. By the way, the killer's parents attended the memorial service for the two victims at the Arvada, CO site today. Afterward they met together with the victim's parents, and prayed together with them. From what was reported, all were very willing for this meeting, and it was described as the start of a long healing process. I can only imagine how difficult it must have been for all concerned, and I am awed that it was able to happen. ~HAP

As far as I know, Matt Murray's connection to Haggard's church was through YWAM not his parent's church. Both the Arvada church and NewLife Church (Haggard's) have onsite offices for YWAM.

Ok, continuing. Yes, this morning the autopsy was released, and he is listed as suicide gunshot to the head. He was hit three times in the leg and wrist by the security guard. I apologize for my earlier correction, much was made here yesterday as to the guard's role. Rhino- it was more P-Mosh's post that struck me as accusing YWAM of being a cult, and he has further explained his earlier thoughts. From your original post it was unclear to me what you were trying to have a discussion about and I asked for explanation which I THINK you have now provided. (something about what role the forums he participated played???- is that right). His most inflaming posts seem to be on a place called alt.suicide.holiday THAT might indicate how unsound his mental reasoning had been stretched. P-Mosh- As far as I know his parent's church is not affiliated with Haggard's. One is in central Denver, the other in ColoSpgs. As reported today, one thing in his past being discussed here in CO is the homeschool program he was raised with. The particular curriculum (perhaps search for "Bill Gotthard"?) his parent's followed is one of the most strict regarding rules for conduct. It is not recommended by or for very many homeschool educator's. I will wait for more to be revealed about it, I do not have time to look now. I do understand it forbade dating, and many other types of socializing. This might have caused him to be an unworthy candidate for a christian missionary program. He was denied joining his YWAM's training group's mission trip after his 12 weeks training. The reason YWAM is giving is that he was considered too much of an introvert to be of help in the mission which was going to Bosnia. It is NOT being suggested that being homeschooled was the problem itself, only that perhaps the particular program he was in might have not been well advised for his particular needs, and exacerbated what is likely to have been an already fragile mental condition.

SOME sites for people leaving SOME groups actually add to the rage for SOME people. Happens here as well. On the other hand SOME people find solace in the companions they find there. I am really just suggesting that it would be unwise and unfair to label YWAM as being a cult based on that poster's or the shooter's view. This is a portion of a statement by YWAM: By the way, contrary to the comment in Faintwhisper's quoted post, the shooter was killed in the ColoSprgs church, by a security guard. security there had been beefed up for the morning, after information of the Arvada shooting was announced, considering the common programs between the two locations. ~HAP

Thanks FaintW for finding those posts. I suspect we will learn more, but my guess is that the description posted above is way off base as a real description of YWAM, knowing the church here in Arvada which is their sponsor, and reading what I have on the YWAM website.

?????? I have not heard of this group being described as a cult before. (Youth with a Mission website: http://www.ywam.org/contents/abo_wha_ywamexplained.htm They are nothing like TWI. The first shooting took place 10 blocks from my house. I drive by the location several times a week on my way to the bank or grocery. First of all, the shooter did NOT grow up in the group which he took revenge against. He did participate for a period of time in their missionary training program ( program as I understand). He did not complete the program, due to what is reported as health reasons. Those have not as yet been revealed, nor do I know if they were physical or mental, but allusions have been made to his mental health at the time. His family are very active in their church, but that too is not a cult from what I have heard. Secondly, the group itself is supported by mainline churches, and provided with space and facilities by them. The second shootings took place at the largest church in CO, started by Ted Haggard who was outed for his clandestine homosexual liasons a couple of years ago, and released from his position at the church. His outing was ONLY significant because he was well known for his views opposing gays. I do not understand what is being alluded to by this thread, please explain. ~HAP

hmm me thinks a roofer would be disturbed in his timing of getting finger outta the way of the hammer using that thing. I bet its one of those things that the apprentice gets to try on his first day for the laughs of others. Whatcha think Geo? ~HAP

Warning: Paws magnetic finger is likely NOT a good tool for building a computer. LOL

I do not find that post you speak of Mr. Lingo. can you show us the context of the supposed quote?

I am very happy with gift cards to my favorite store or restaurant. Its win/win in my book heart, HAP

My son and his partner (aka girlfriend, "if we must") prepared this dish tonight for us. It is one of his favorites, and now I am in love! this is actually a vegan recipe, but it fits in with a vegetarian thread. Portobella Mushroom Bake from: The Garden of Vegan by Tanya Barnard & Sarah Kramer Many friendships have been cultivated and nurtured because of this dish. sometimes one should double up on the sauce, as it is so delicious. Serve over rice or couscous. 1/2 cup almonds 1/4 cup olive oil 1/4 cup Braggs (essentially soysauce) 1/4- 1/2 cup water 2 tbsp balsamic vinegar 3 cloves garlic, roughly chopped 1 tsp dried rosemary 1 tsp dried oregano 4 large Portobello mushrooms, stems removed 1 medium onion, sliced Preheat oven to 350 F. In a blender or food processor, blend the almonds until powdered. Add oil, Braggs, water, vinegar, garlic, rosemary and oregano, and blend until well combined. In a large baking dish, place the mushrooms upside down and top with onions. Pour sauce over the top and bake for 20-25 minutes. Serve over rice or couscous Makes 2-4 servings Braggs: http://bragg.com/products/liquidaminos.html enjoy peace, ~HAP

could it be your mother?

whatever Rhino, you are wrong about your opinion as to why I started this thread, unless you are a prophet of the ilk of Karen Gr@@s#r. (referring to your casting out devil spirits line) gag, is this what you righties plan for the upcoming election? But since nobody else wishes to discuss the topic, I am done with this, and more, perhaps, since you chose to turn it into politics. (a certain thread killer tactic) I worked 14 hours yesterday hence did not take time to play here. I will yield to your infinite power and wisdom. You are all-knowing and I am just a dishonest piece of pooponastick as I have been called by others. by the way, since Mary Cheney was 12 when the book was published, and written before that, it is possible but very unlikely that her sexual preferences were the impetus for the book, but you may know better. Actually, I applaud Lynne Cheney for taking the topic and using it as the focus of the book especially at that time, and in her position. This was not an attack on her by me, That would not fit with my political views which include support for gay marriage. You have assserted claims that I heard of this as some part of a long standing attack on Cheney. I never made any such attack, nor is that where I heard it. Perhaps you wish to tell how you know my motives. Revelation? Masturbation? are you part of Homeland Security? - they seem to get stuff wrong as much as you do. Enjoy handling this or whatever else by yourself. ~HAP

THAT (the blue) is why I put it here. I answered your question but you did not see it, perhaps because of your blind hatred for anything contrary to your opinion. Women's issues and roles are a valid discussion here in open. (see also the introductory page I posted) YOU are the one who mentioned her party affiliation, not me. I only identified her noteworthy position as the wife of the VP which gives here some prominence and interest. You are also the one who brought up the allusions to sexual identity in the book. The link I posted goes directly to the page on the book and there is no Bush bashing directly on the page, nor any Lynn Cheney bashing. Nor any profanity. (unless you consider the exerpts from the book itself profane- is that it?) For that matter, there is no direct editorial comment on the page by the website people. You must have followed a link from THERE on your own. I also told everyone how they can find other articles on the book (from CNN, USA Today and others I saw) Are you making this an issue because YOU want it taken to another forum? I'd rather eventually discuss the book, which I have not yet read. This thread is not a discussion about "whitehouse.org", nor did I pose it as such. You can start that thread on your own in the other forum and discuss it there without me. I owe you no explanation.

I understood when I read it that LNM's post was from Lynn's earlier post from a couple of years ago was it? Just the same, I suspect that what John Lynn said on that thread at that time still applies to this thread since his earlier 2 posts had been already mentioned by others on this thread, and the fact that sirvaliant in post #27 on THIS thread wrote (10 Oct. 2007):

Shell- I am sure you will! go ahead and kick me Rocky, I did it again. but my excuse for unignoring Rhino's post is that it was on a thread I started so I felt it proper to see if he had anything worthwhile to say. He didn't :P Rhino (aka Attila the Hun)- it is a book about women's roles, lives and personal relationships in the west. Why would it belong in the political forum? Just because it is written in a scintillating style by the "second lady"? I don't think so. I posted the link from this site because the book can be read there. "WE" know you have disdain for women with strong minds, wills, and ideas which differ from yours, but fortunately "we" all don't share your noxious ideas. The last line of your post is demonstrative of your typical buffoonery and does not belong on this thread. You know nothing, and you know even less about my political views. You wrongly describe my views and make stuff up to stroke your ignorance. Please take it to the other forum where I WILL continue to ignore your lies.

I thought you guys and gals might enjoy hearing of this book by the wife of our Vice President. The complete book is available in a .pdf file at: http://www.whitehouse.org/administration/sisters.asp Do not be distracted by the site above, it is just the place I found the book, although it is a fun site to peruse around. I further checked whether this was a spoof or in fact a book actually written by Lynne Cheney. It checks out as real. You can google: Sisters Cheney book and find many articles about it. There is a signed copy available for purchase also. enjoy the excerpts! ~HAP

I dunno about the "affiliated" groups, but I am aware of ONE group of people who fellowship around a variety of different teachings, including manline church materials, some materials from STI, and various other bible ministries. The group I am familiar with is well aware of the goings on at STI, the so-called "prophecies" regarding certain members etc. They continue to pray for the well-being of all those involved, and do not feel they have been left uninformed, nor do they believe they have been misused like some here seem to imply. Perhaps some here are imagining a problem that is not so much an issue as they would have us believe. Meanwhile John and his wife Elizabeth seem very happy, and in my experience are open about the events which led to their divorce and their remarriage. ~HAP

oh, I thought this was a pirate thread. ho ho ho and a bottle of rum. chalk me up to the list of bah-humbug non-believers-in-crass-holidays which serve as monuments to decadence. (Insert picture roman ruins here) ~HAP

ask whitedove