HAPe4me

The greatest military men I have known much prefer peace, including my father and my grandfather, both career Army officers. that was never an issue with me, david. The question of the Angels and Thunderbird demonstrations is whether it is necessary to show that training to us and spend this money in this dangerous and expensive format. I in no way am objecting to the extraordinary training necessary to prepare the pilots for actual possible wartime maneuvers. This expensive machinery is not wartime ready, even though they can be retrofitted and repainted to be ready. (as long as they have not crashed during the entertainment, or training for the entertainment.)

As I said, I was posing some questions. thank you for your views, and I am glad you enjoyed the show with the guys. bytheby, as to the statistic in #1- According to the BA website, there have been 232 pilots in their history and 32 commanders= 264. News reports say 26 fatal accidents have occured, hence the 10% (roughly) of their pilots have died in accidents during training or shows. It is a given that answers to these questions will vary by each of us. I simply am not sure that in my view this expenditure for entertainment is warranted. My only comment concerning #6 is that it is the Constitution that gives all of us the right to speak our views, not the US military. The military defends our shores, and in some cases, our interests abroad,from enemies, on orders from the President as I recall. I have no knowledge of the VAE booth other than what was Googled. ~HAP

Ok, I will try this ONE more time. Yes they are fun to watch. That said, (while putting on my flak jacket), I think there are some valid questions to be asked about this type of show. I think questions SHOULD be asked for that matter, and I do so, trying NOT to be antagonistic. 1- Is the entertainment value of them justifiable to the risks? (10% of the Angels pilots and squad leaders have been killed in shows or training accidents) 2- Is the financial cost (both taxpayer and non-profit sponsorship) justifiable? 3- Is the fuel expenditure worth it? ($1400 per jet, per show)-NOT including the cost during practice or getting to the show.- and I have no idea how old that figure is, although it is not current. 4- Recruitment is listed as one of the prime benefits of these shows, is there a better way? 5- The military is the largest consumer of fuel in our country according to http://sandersresearch.com/index.php?optio...&Itemid=103 should they not be as conscientious as the rest of us need to be about where they can conserve? 6- The Duluth show also has an army virtual combat simulation team at it (which seems to be the major focus of the demonstrators Dmiller mentions) Does this glorify attributes of our society which we want to glorify? I imagine there are many more questions that could be asked. I hereby state that I do not claim to have definitive answers to them, as MY answers would vary by each question, and they would STILL be only MY answers from MY perspective. I'll post these questions for your considerations anyway. ~HAP

oh cmon! I did not click "post"

grrr what happened?

oops

Cmon Rocky, don't they need 4 to make a twig? Can't you just this once accomodate Thomas Loy's fantasy? Seriously Thomas, get a grip, we have covered this before with you! ~HAP

Darn splinters under the flesh: first they poke-and-prick at you, then they fester, puss up, burst, and hopefully eject themselves. They cause more aggravation than is needed. Spoken from one who works with their hands for a living. ~HAP

if you are pricing it with a drop of at another location than you picked it up, that is part of your problem. There is often a big surcharge for that. Try a bus? give your bro $60 to come and pick you up?

Here is what the EPA REALLY says concerning CFLs. From their website, posted June 2008: http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/prom...eet_Mercury.pdf Here is an excerpt from that site: How do CFLs result in less mercury in the environment compared to traditional light bulbs? In short, while there is indeed a minimal hazard from mercury in CFLs if they are broken, there are far greater mercury emissions resultant from the use of the previously standard incandescent bulbs, largely due to the reduced amount of electrical usage. The only thing I found alarming in the senator's speech was that "all CFLs are made in China? Is this true? Why? ~HAP

Could you all perhaps put this discussion on hold for a bit? John's son, Sam, was wounded in Iraq. (see the prayer forum)

GeoAar June 24, 2008: Classic Geo!, thanks

edited to remove Camp Gunnison Inc. info that probably should not have been put in this location.

hey dude great that you caught us up on ryan! How about stopping by the old room and let us know how you are! HAP

My experiences withe Claudette were the same. She was always warm and friendly with my wife and I through the years 72-86. It seemed when our paths crossed she welcomed the opportunity to chat without any pretentiousness. I recall a running laugh we had for 10 years, something about a love for cookies, a vice we both shared. We always enjoyed our visits. As to the original question posed here, I have no idea, nor do I care. ~HAP

Did DonW have a german shorthair back in 73? I can't recall if it was his or if it was Tick I almost lost back in 73. I think Don brought him down from I think Beloit but I always thought it was Tick. I do know that we kept VP and Don waiting while we went to fetch him from the "safe place" we thought we had him overnight.

What a silly spammail that is. At least someone has removed the false attributions to various celebrities in it finally. My experiences in Europe in 2006 did not agree with this assessment. I found quite the opposite to be the case. While I was treated wonderfully and respectfully as an American (there is no hiding that fact from them), it was made very clear to me that there was not much love for this country, nor respect for our positions worldwide held by those I came in contact with in Italy and Germany. On a person to person level however, they could not have been kinder and more endearing to myself and my wife. It is not complaining to not like the direction we are heading (which is what that poll in this spam email a long time ago said). I know many people in Europe who "thank the good Lord" they live where they do. AS THEY SHOULD! One thing I found that they found most disconcerting was the way SOME Americans try to claim that somehow this infant country is God's gift to the world. That makes no sense to them. ~HAP

broken? ooooooooo-k

Never mind that LaNina years (like this past one) typically cast colder winters in areas as opposed to LaNino which heat things up. I got the following chart from: http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/200...al-warming.html A chart showing a more longterm trend than the one someone else posted (this one 1880 to 2008). The guy asks "if this longterm chart was a stock would you short it?" And concerning this past winter I found this to share:

he states he wants to find how Spotters feel about man and global warming. BUT the poll only deals with tax or not tax, and ALL the not tax options claim that GW is not a serious man contributed problem. He also ONLY presents the CO2 aspects or not. this is NOT a poll to find how we "feel" about man and warming (as he stated). Nope, I'm not gonna vote.

Ron, I did not take your thread as being mean nor did I say it should not have been posted.

Rhino- a very "oddly" worded poll, called in the business as a "PUSH POLL". It is designed to elicit results which wrongly interpret the real positions of the people who participate. "Pushing" them to a response that does not represent their real view. Sorry, I am not going to pull the lever and would recommend others to use caution if they wish to contribute. If I were to vote, none of the answers accurately reflect my view, and I would have concerns as to how you would later use the results to proclaim a poll result that misrepresents the actual diverse views on the subject held by Spotters. good luck with it, maybe others will be fooled into punching a chad or two, but the results will still in my opinion be bogus because of the slanted questions themselves. Don't feel bad, I pretty much always refuse to participate in push polls by any organization for the same reason. ~HAP

For the record, I never take a comment of Dmiller's to be mean-spirited, it's not his way. I simply did not pick up on his sarcasm about his tree. I was NOT trying to be inflammatory. Assuming P-mosh was referring to Ron's original post regarding Jupiter as being the sarcastic one, I think he makes a good point in one regard. Although I do not think Ron was being mean either, one problem I have with receiving posts like his here in the open forum is leaving those sarcastic remarks unresponded to. It is too easy for the sarcasm to be missed, and if unattended to, they are left hanging out there, without comment or refuting, ready to be believed and passed on by the casual reader.

David, I apologize, I did not take your post as being tongue-in-cheek. I took it as you saying that because of trees blooming (I didn't know if this was early or late for them) that this was evidence of the theory being BS. Apparently this is not what you meant. Again, sorry. Of course your opinion counts,and if you do not wish to give reasons for your opinion that is fine too. I had not intended to post to this thread as the subject has been talked to death here, but I mistakenly THOUGHT you were raising a new view I had not heard and was seeking clarification. I think no ill towards you David and did not intend to imply such.