socks

No kididng, bluzeman! very nice evan, I especially like the second song. Leo and Galen Anway are having fun, too! :) bluzeman, nice music! What are you playing on that? Love the other tune you sent too. Such a su-wheet tune. Not sure sprawled out - does look like a coronado but the headstock - not sure. Ana Vidovic is great! Nice stuff there. Facile - Isn't that guy on the Sopranos...Frankie 'The Phone" Facile?

Yeah huh, dmiller. I was about to say Lita Ford gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "head banging" but realized that would be well, uh, yeah, what would it be?

Airplanes! Flewing the coop are we? Cool. I hope you took some extra peanuts, a lot of these airlines don't give much more than a snack fit for a munchkin! Hope all is going well. So much going on...I've had to give my '57 Gretsch some serious love on it's finish over the last few weeks. It had developed a discoloration on part of the top, making it kind of fogged. It was the polish I'd used, and I can't remember which it was, think it was Martin. Martin's is fine, but I think it reacted against what was already there, which I can't remember. At any rate it looked pretty funky in parts. Took the strings off, and did a light cleaning with a moist cloth over the whole body. Let i dry for day. Then took a new bottle of GHS polish. It's a whitish liquid, put some on, buffed it off when dry. Put a 2nd light coat on, and rubbed it out, and then let it dry, etc. Took about 5 applications in spots before it started making any difference. So I gave it a couple days to set, and started over, lighter coats. I've given the whole body 8 or so extremely light coats of polish and it's back to normal! Will give it one more and should be done with it. From here on out, no polish at all, except for maybe once a year or so. It's starting to get a real nice deep glow back. It's happy, I can tell. :) Wuddelse.....ever had a song project you've worked on for years? I've been working up a version of "Misty" that's been simmering a long time. I really, really like that song. I assembled several versions and used the Johnny Mathis version (probably most well known) as the template, as I love his voice. I'm finally finalizing the voicings, mostly taking stuff out now and it's ending up as very simple, much simpler than it's been at times. (I'm sure if it were a person there have been times it wouldn't have wanted to be paraded around in what I was putting on it!) But it's coming around now. It's such a beautiful song.

Hi Whatsgoingon! What'sgoingon? (you knew that was coming) If you're a member or recent member of CES, can you elaborate? Are you thinking of attorneys in relation to fallout from personal prophecy, it's effect on CES members? I don't know anything about the personal prophecy seminars and CES teaching related to it. Mark S. has posted some illuminating background information and White Dove posted scans of the seminar agendas that look intriguing. There's been a lot of posting related to it with some information. I'd like to get an insiders view of what's taught, particularly the CES foundation for it being a useful part of regular Christian life. Or is it? I don't know how the presentation is crafted or delivered. I'd like to know more about CES's content, what's taught, why, all that. But without taking a seminar or buying John S's book. I'd like to get some facts and information on it from someone who knows and is proficient with it. That would be great, if you have anything like that to share, some of us would be interested. When you said attorneys it made me wonder - I'd assume there's some liability if there's direct counsel being given by a personal prophecy practitioner to a person about a person's life, decisions, etc. It makes me wonder, is there a disclaimer given in the material that would free the practitioner (my word) of any liability for the prophecy that's given to a person? Especially if the person giving it requires that the person getting it follow the direction being given? I'm sure if the prophecy is related to some succesful outcome credit is accepted to some degree for that success. The teaching in that instance, the use of it, etc. Is there literature or statements that use successful outcomes to promote the teaching further? "Reali life stories"? I'd think that if the prophecy produces a negative outcome if and when the person acts on it, especially if they're coerced somehow to act, that a "discredit" would be acceptable. Pretty much everything advertised accepts some kind of responsibility, and it's usually covered by a disclaimer - "your results may vary", "be sure to consult a physician before taking this or any other, blah blah blah"...."Users may experience extreme nausea, loose bowel syndrome, blurred vision, loss of hair and or body fluids at inappropriate times".....that kind of thing. So I wonder if CES has anything in it's formal literature that addresses possible negative outcomes. Or are they just winging it? Or if there is a disclaimer of any kind, what does it relieve CES of? I'm not suggesting that they are liable for anything specific or have done anything illegal. I'm just wondering what the attorneys would be for. I can guess a lot of possibilities, but I'm really just wondering now as a result of that statement. If you don't want to respond, no biggie. I'm not trying to start anything. :) I also want to add that a lot of ministers do exactly what I've described, all the time. I'm a Christian, I've learned over time to not accept everything someone says just because they say God says so. They may mean well, have my best interests at heart, all of that - but I just don't do that. I have sort of a filter on when I listen or read, that sort of automatically translates anything that sounds like an order to me. (really, just ask my wife ) But a lot of people don't. People have serious needs and concerns, issues in life etc. We know that. Getting involved in people's most intimate affairs, even meaning well, requires care. I'm just wondering what all the personal prophecy stuff is about, from a CES standpoint. But I ain't buying any book without knowing exactly how that book is applied, in real life and real time, by the people that pay money for the teaching and live with it for awhile. I'm not real big on selling teaching of God's material to begin with. So that's where I'm coming from.

F'real Evan. They got "warnings". Well, my opinion of this thread topic has changed draMATically, based on detailed readings of parts I'd missed. Namely the "ki ss" referred to. Anybody seen a photo of M.G. lately? I have no idea what E. looks like, but I have been led to understand E. is a.t.t.r.a.c.t.i.v.e., and that if M.G. was on "this" end of the spectrum, E. is somewhere to the far right of that. I'm trying to be nice here. So......methinks the levels of bewitching that have been used against these poor people is worse than initially suspected. Or maybe it was a 'mercy' kis s, or a 'gee, it's 2 a.m. and in this low light, he's...' kinda kiss. Dunno. The horror....the horror......

Oh my Radar! Well, thanks. Just some stuff. The stuff in bold isn't "mine". I have it in some stuff I've been reading and copying. It seemed to point to some very directly. The leveraging, yah, WW. It's inevitable when used for personal guidance, I think, it tiakes on sort of a "Dr. Phil-from he_ll" vibe. (nothing against the Phil-meister, but he's on TV, sells advertising and is The Philster, right? :) ) G'day!

Oh, you should hear the song. Have you heard it? It's well, it's great. Just great.

Lita Ford. That's the stuff! I only have a smattering of a squip of a scap of knowledge of Ford, but she sure can hold that guitar!! Actually, she sounds quite proficient and danged good at that kind of stuff. dmiller, I think the TOTP ministry may be one of the greats! Somewhere right up there with the "Last Post" ministry! It takes guts to be the last, and it takes guts to be on top. :blink: That didn't sound right, did it? But the Top certainly affords some fine views if only for a time! I hope that Fender is still there. :)

Coolwaters, this sums up some thoughts I have on this topic of personal prophecy, "prophets" and, hmm, that stuff. I wanted to post it, this seems a good spot! The stuff below starts with the phrase, the "claim to prophecy". Although there are a lot of different interpretations of the gift(s) of the spirit, and the spirit in action I think there are two commonly accepted understandings of what the bible says about it, and they are actually similar to the language in PFAL and will sound familiar to any PFAL grad. One is a spoken or written piece that a person gives that is uplifting, encouraging, helpful. "Generally" useful to the people hearing or reading it and specifically encouraging to them at that time. (this would be similar to what PFAL teaches as the "manifestation" of prophecy). It's not casual or off-handed, it's "inspired" and inspiring. People don't yawn and look at their watch. It has significance to them when they hear it, no one has to say it's helpful, they experience the help. Two is a piece that is very specific, dealing with events and people, past or present. It isn't "close to right" or "almost completely correct", it's completely correct and offers information and encouragement that can't be known, if not in fact, in the way in which it's being expressed and put together. This is the "ministry" of prophecy in action. In both cases, any Christian can offer the prophecy, at any time. A person doesn't have to be a "prophet" to do either. Anyone can do either, and a "prophet", a person specifically elected by God to maintain that kind of a function can and will do both also. One thing about both, and any variation of them that could be described, is that some people will be particularly inspired to pursue them. Some won't. There's a lot of examples in the bible of both. Jesus in the gospels is the best example. People identified Him in different ways - the son of God, a prophet, Teacher, Master, Messiah. You could say that everything He was and did was in service to God and the world, and the things He was and did served them. Prophcey, like everything that God has offered His people, serves the same thing. The fruit of prophecy always brings people to Christ and to God. The affairs of this life that may be addressed or dealt with in prophecy aren't the primary goal or focus. The primary goal and focus is to always bring the recipients to God and Christ and a closer understanding and relationship with them. Here's the stuff I wanted to post: There are several tell-tale signs of the deliberate abuse of the claim to prophecy : * when the leader starts making 'prophetic' announcements which have claim to any sort of binding effect on those followers. * when the leader makes no specific claims, but followers are recording, collecting, or distributing what the leader says, with the claim that it is prophecy from God. Either way, the problems are threefold. 1. the process of discernment is being pre-empted; the sayings are presumed to be from God, and thus anyone who uses the means of discernment on them is seen as doubting God. 2. it is used for ruling their lives. That is the role of doctrine, not prophecy. Doctrine properly comes from the long-established, revealed Word of God -- the Bible. Any other source of binding doctrine sooner or later stands against Scripture. 3. This problem is the most damning one: it draws attention toward the 'prophet' and away from Christ. The term "discernment" is used, which I would describe as people thinking, considering, evaluating and prayerfully expecting consistent corroboration from their own hearts and spirit, and from God Himself. What's described happens in a lot of settings where a person or people are allowed to become the "authorities" on what is or isn't truly from God. Whether it's a teacher, "prophet", council or collective group doing the authorization, the people of God, the congregation of the church that are the beneficiaries of spritiual gifts in action should always be particpants in the process, not just listeners and followers. Some will do that, of course. Maturity and experience is really necessary for any kind of "prophecy" to occur. Definitely with any regularity. Otherwise you end up with what CES probably is experiencing - a lot of people who really don't know what they're doing and unable to know what's right or not and perfectly willing to accept another's "discernment". A great example of that is Paul in Acts, when Agabus came to him and told him about what would happen if he went to Jerusalem. The group of people with them concurred and encouraged Paul along the lines to listen and not go. Agabus himself only told Paul, descriptively, what would happen if he did. Whether it was right for him to go or not was up to Paul to decide. They pressed him to not go, and it could be said the collective opinion of the others, perhaps inspired, was the he shouldn't. But Paul himself already knew clearly that his mission of outreach was going to incur some heavy persecution on himself to perform. So he certainly didn't proceed blindly at that point. In fact, it could be said that what Agabus told him reinforced what he already knew was possible, if not certain. The point there that's interesting is that Paul wasn't above or beyond the reach of his fellow Christians. They felt free to speak their hearts and minds, openly and strongly. Paul carried on in the same environment. Anyhoo, hopefully this is some food for thought. :)

Ain't it true, Jonny! Hotter'n' a firecracker and twice as read! Tom, I'll put out extra cookies on the "Amazing" thread later, they're sure to run out! OLM's, be ready to love! Dooj's got it, alright! Now we're steaming, full bore! If Bliss has anything in red, we're set!

Feel the love! I think Chatty does too, dmiller. In fact, Dan_InvisibleOne posted on Montanus in another thread and it made me think, we may need some Guitarophesses here, we certainly have the women for it. Would a collection of female deities add to this already high-value thread? I pose the question for group consideration. A voting council made up of prospective Guitarophesses will finalize the decision, yae or nae. Ive crossed the line, I know. Im back. Band in a Box - I have read about it polar bear but never used it. You like it? It would be cool to hear some of what it creates. Ive read good things about it.

WOW! Speaking of Prophetic Guidance, I posted before logging in and got a field to put in a name and it posted up with that name. COOL! I had no idea that could be done. Well, go figger. Have no fear, however, all words posted as socksarama can be verified as a True Socks Post. Donations should be sent via the normal channels. Thank you!

Yah, I had to grab the Tums myself, Sunesis. Tom, thanks, hope there's a thought or two there that will help someone. Although I'm not trying to chase anyone from their friends or family there's a value in people getting at least a part of their religious and spiritual life out and away from the Way and ex-Way learning stream and influence. Karen G. isn't a prophet. As to CES, a lot of these people have been around the block a few too many times. It's time they give it a rest and put an end to all of this foolishness and allow for help.

GS being the point of contact it is for so many people who visit and read, I suspect some of those people will be wondering in the next few months "what do I do now?" If a person's invested their life, time, development of their own beliefs and faith in CES they may feel as if their options are limited. They're never limited, but sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees, as they say. My recommendation would be - if you want Christian fellowship and activities, consider finding a local church to attend. One where there is a Pastor with a reputation for having a sound marriage or relationship, who cares for the people that attend that church and who is involved in active outreach to the community. Perhaps a Pastor who participates in Mission work, travels to other locations to help Christian outreach there, building programs. In short, a church where the people speak highly of the love and care of their pastor. One who has some experience and training behind him, and who is service minded to his congregation. Doctrine is always an issue. Doctrine will always differ, not only from church to chuch but within a church's own people. It's a simple reality that no two people ever understand or see things exactly the same. That's a good thing - diversity of understanding about the same issues and matters can help, once we get used to allowing it to exist, not as an enemy, but as a way to learn and grow, for everyone involved. Big ticket dcctrinal items - Trinity, Heaven/Hell, the Return of Christ - a lot of doctrinal points will be different in churches that haven't come down the same path as ex-Way churches. It doesn't mean that everyone's right - everyone can't be of course. I'm suggesting to take the emphasis off of being right and putting it on fellowship and service. Emphasize meekness and humility to God and Jesus Christ, and allow for others to, in a word, LOVE you for who you are, not what you believe and to do that in turn. Mature experienced pastoring in a church is critical. No one pastor is perfect, no one will do everything right. Meekness and humility allow for growth. A successful pastor will inevitably have learned that, and not just to "God", but to God's people. The entire concept of "leadership" is redefined when meekness and humilty and a loving concern to help other are prominent. People find that they can live their own lives freely, quite well in fact, with that kind of pastoral presence. I hope this helps.

Jeff Healey - great stuff! Does anyone else here watch TV? Sure, you do. Seen the Target commercial? There's a song they're using by Goldfrap, which is a British artist, young lady, don't know much about it/her/them. But the song title is "Fly Me Away", and is on my listen-box these days. I'm a sucker for these kinds of pop tunes, but it seems to have that Universal Hook Mojo going for it. No guitar but some interesting synth sounds. It would have a lot of room for guitar parts though. Hmmm...Jack Mack and the Heart Attack have been around a long time. A poster on this board brought them up but I can't find the post, and I'm ashamed to say I can't remember their ID. :( But, at the time it reminded me of them, hadn't heard them in ages. Their guitarist is Andrew Kastner and he plays some really nice stuff, soul, r and b jazzy kind of sound. I really their stuff, you might too if you haven't checked 'em out. I gotta clip around here somewhere. By the way... I sure do luv you guys. :) Christmas is just a week away!!!!!!!! Wow. Happy times for all, I hope. The year is coming to a close, new one coming on. Life is cool when it doesn't suck. And it hasn't for quite awhile.

bluezman, tics!!! Yah. Linda Z, that's interesting. Do you think that amounted to what we called "manifestations"? Or was it something different? I'm still trying to get a handle on the Personal Prophecy, and Dream Prophecy. At first I didn't want to derail this thread to that direction but it seems that those beliefs and related activities figure into the topic. Does anyone know if there's a public document or statement of what it is, how it works, what to expect, etc.? I'd like to see some sort of biblical documentation of it. I can guess some of it probably but it would be nice to see some kind of history of development, etc. My only experiences as a recipient of this kind of thing have been pretty flat. I got nada. Zip. Diddly. Nothing came down the pike for me. I won't name the person here, it was a long time ago and they're outside of CES but I think...are of a similar background, so add as many grains of salt as make it palatable. They clammed up. I had to actually ask Soooooo, is that it? and they couldn't talk, and that was that. Seriously, I took their hand and lifted them up and stood up and said Ooookay. Gotta go. I still don't know what happened, but I have a guess. I confess I was less than an ideal particpant, but I'm always ready for a fresh dash of reality. Y'know, bring it on, be my Mommy. Or Daddy, whichever works. But it was weird, even for me. I just checked the "Ministries" tab on the STFI site and that page is still under construction. Mabye there's some stuff from the old site that will go back up...?

("You" was unable to be here today to accept their award and has sent this eCard on behalf of themselves!) Thank you! Thank you! I'd like to thank so many people, I don't know where to start - here, I made a list... Me. I thank me! Oh, to be Me!!! But I am!!! And I'm so glad!!!! I was always there for me, even when it didn't seem like it was all going to work out! No one could have had a better me, all these years! No one will ever know how much I've meant to me! Thank you so much!!! I'll always treasure this moment with myself!!!

Well, you can't say politics without saying "tic". (socks 24:2, Open Standard Version, Revised) It's got 'em by the bag full. If GS had a Prophetic Coucnil, I'd say it has spoken. Let it be written, verified, ratified and Stamped Approved this day of December 17, in the Year of Our Spouse, by All They Who Thus Speak and They Who Nod, by Proxy: CES is in a mess.

That document references Enneagram - read all about it HERE if you haven't heard of it - I hadn't, but I'm way to busy adjusting my Lucky Moon watch. If you're immediately impressed by the homepage, the Shopping Cart is second down on the left navigation, for easy access. A quick read of the site, more of the same kind of stuff that seems to be coming down the ex-Wayfer pike. Won't these guys ever wake up? The last thing I'd want is some crap-shoot "Profit" of some church getting their hands on my brain and trying to get 'er right. This stuff turns my stomach, personally. Reading what I have on this thread so far alone makes me feel dirty, and I'm not saying I was all that clean coming on, y'know? But geez... I don't pray for everyone who proposes that they're an Ambassador for Christ, Bill D. The world is full of misguided nuts who use the name of Jesus Christ in many different ways. Certainly not anyone who practices the dream/prophecy "doctrine" I'm reading about here. Pray that they get their head out of their butt before it gets so big they blow up, yes. But it's hard to hear from that position, removal first is usually desirable. As far as money goes, I believe you and any report that says they're not getting rich off this kind of stuff. I can't believe anyone would, frankly. It's just too weird for me and trust me - I know weird. Hopefully all of this exchange opens up what's going on in CES/STFI/WhaverItIs and people can judge more clearly for themselves based on information. Buyer beware is the order of the day. As always, it's a free country and as long as you don't break the law people are free to do pretty much what they like.

Thanks Captain Crunch. This document is the first I've seen of how the "Prophetic Council" issues statements. From what I know, and putting two and two together, my advice to anyone involved with the group is to get away from them and let them work their problems out for themselves. Those of you like yourself, Jeff and others who might have a responsibility and a possibility of having an effect on the outcome, do as you think right. In general though I'd repeat - people should get away from these people. It's not a question to me if they're nice or have helped people in the past, etc. These kinds of things don't just spring up in a day obviously, they develop over time. Whatever's under the blankets there, it's not good and I'd hate to wake up and see it in the dark, myself. I'm sure some reading this will be inclined to feel well, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. And it is, and I am. You guys close to CES should clear the decks and breathe some fresh air for awhile.

Here's some explanation of the design and it's benefits ChattyKathy - HERE The point about placement of the strings at the outer edge of the soundboard is reasonable. Picture the average hollowbody electric guitar that has 4 knobs spread across the body, near the bridge. That placement of the potentiameters as they're called, the washers and small bolts that hold it in, effect how the top of the guitar vibrates, basically deadening and reducing it's ability to do so. When those knobs are position closer to the edge of the guitar top, it opens up the sound some, allows the top to vibrate more freely. (but then they're further from the guitarists picking hand, so there's a compensation to be made. Guitarists tend to like having knobs closer) This guitar has the standard side-of-the-body controls setup, at the top, and that's a good idea for an acoustic as it gets all that stuff off the top. Also on this guitar the bridge piece that the strings terminate at, on the top of the guitar, is set up but the strings don't go through the body right through it or right behind it, at the middle of the body. Those six holes and the effect it has tof pressure and pull being in the middle of the top aren't issues - the holes are at the edge where there's more strength, as the top is bound to the side there anyway. They've been able to do a design on a top that for the most part is more controllable, there's more available open space to get sound from where there's no intrusion from hardware or holes, etc. Couple others things on this guitar make it a nice sounding instrument. I've only played one briefly, at a Gutar Center, but there were only a couple of them.

OH man, I gotta know, seriously. dmiller, do you know - ex10, Crunchy, somebody - What's this about Graeser's 'prophetic dreams'? and all of that? Is that for real? And do people in CES or STFI or whatever it is know that? I guess I mean, is that a fairly normal part of what they do or expect to have happening? Is it part of the 'personal prophecy' schtick? (I have no respect for that, so sorry if I come off sarcastic. Out of respect for posters here who like it I won't get off on that) But the dream stuff is intriguing to me, which I won't go into here as a derail but if someone can expound a little on that it would be great. Thanks. In the meantime I have to hit the sack. If anything significant comes to me during the night, I'll be sure to post it here right away. (Sorry, I'm hopeless as you can see)

My motto - "life's short, suffer now and avoid the rush later". Just kidding. Really, IMO it's not that weird or immature or strange to expect some kind of acknowledgement for past actions. It's phoney for them to come back a couple years later and act like nothing happened. It's like the voice that says "we're all gone now". What they're doing puts the onus, the burden, the pressure on you to bring it up, address it and frame the discussion. It potentially makes you "the bad guy" - - for still remembering - for not forgiving - for having the "problem" They sit back and take no responsibility for their actions and leave you to deal with it. That ain't right. When someone acts weird or like a jerk and then comes back later happy and nice, that doesn't mean they're not a weird jerk waiting to happen again. Trust isn't hope. Hoping someone doesn't repeat themselves isn't the same as trusting them where there's mutual understanding. Sounds to me like nothing's understood. My take - if these people had any ballz they'd suck it up and take the first opportunity to clear the air with you. After all, they're the "leaders", right? Now they're all friendly with your brother, and you. They thought he was worthless a few years ago, sounds like. Now he's cool. Because he manages a restaurant? That's shallow. Sleezey. I'm sure it's a heck of a restaurant but the food can't be that good. Why get mixed up with people like that? You got out of the Way. You're money ahead at this point, you can keep what you value, toss what you don't. Get on with a good life. They're carrying the baggage, not you. Or just give them a big hug and forget about it. I'd keep an eye on them still, though, if that's the course you choose. First sign of Wayfer Wierdness, put salt in their Sugar Dispenser. P.S. If they're decent tippers your daughter should be as nice to them as any customer, but I'd remind her - they hurt her Dad. She doesn't have to spit in their food but geez, don't waste time on phoney people that smile at you today and rip you a new one tomorrow.

Sorry. Ahem...Well, anyway. Oh, it's not worth it, never mind. Yes it is. "STFI"'s bound to ... Nope, can't write it. Cap'n Crunch, set your sails for the land of milk 'n' honey and spoon it up for us!

Very cool clip G-Tech. Thanks! Speaking of percussive sounds - drummers. And cowbells. Where would rock drumming be without the cowbell? 24 Cowbell skanks that made the world a better place. Before headbanging had a name there was this guitar player. Rock Perfection in a Les Paul Jr. And an extra twist of Friday Volume goes to all who know who he played with before this group.....?