socks

Joke - What did the resentful bacteria say to the amazed cell colony? We're all gall now.

Warning - "Warning" - such an interesting word. Danger Will Robnison!!! Danger!!!! That's a warning. *** Viruses, bacteria. Microscopic nasties.

It was taught. It was a conclusion based on putting two and two together. All life is spirit but all life isn't eternal life spirit. The soul of man is life but isn't eternal, like pneuma hagion spirit. Which makes the new birth and a resurrection/raising/gathering and Second Coming very important for those who have it. Some two and two's don't add up though - when the soul dies, it's said to be gone. The P.H. goes back to God. ("incoming! Heads up, in Storage!") What gets resurrected? The soul? It's gone. So's the body. It can't be resurrected if it's actually "gone", it would have to recreated. So if there's a resurrection, what really happens? Recreation? I can buy that. But I don't think the details were ever fully gone into. Advanced class was for those who had "mastered' PFAL, so to speak, who had their cookies in order and were prepared to make some "spiritually" intelligent conclusions about what the Word said. The Vpster always said "it's all in PFAL". An interesting statement. Going from what was in PFAL, would a person logically progress to "cancer being a devil spirit" or being caused by a devil spirit's influence? Contact with a daimon can't be good, I'd grant you that, no question. Yes and no. PFAL shied away from warm and fuzzies about pneuma hagion. The gift, spirit, was "Christ in you". God the give, upper case PH, gives spirit, lower PH and you now have God, in Christ, in you. Contact! Now - details are short here. But PFAL also taught that p.h. wasn't automatically hmmm..."on". Believing ignites it's power. ("fire in the hole! Thrusters ON!") Decohmia, lambano. The body therefore trundles along with spirit unactivated, when there's no renewed mind believing. So it has the same weaknesses as it always did, without believing God's Word. Enter daimon. Looking for weakness. Healthy body - can't find a spot. Unhealthy body - this spot looks good. Healthy body doesn't necessarily equal pneuma hagion and exousia - or renewed mind believing in God's Word. An atheist could have the same healthy body as a Christian, without the potential advantages of p.h. Or P.H. Which actually broadens the discussion of what exactly is "God's Word", I think. Soooo - the Aspirin Adantage. A body's a body and functions by the same rules amongst all certified owners. If the attack is to the physical body, a physical solution could defend against it. But Big Hits require Big Medicine, and once a daimon has taken root, it's hard to drive out. But it can be driven out of the body. There's a disconnect there - where's p.h. in all of this? Light dispels darkness. They can't exist at the same time right? So where and what is p.h. doing, making room for new tenants? If p.h. is "in me", what does that really mean? Unfortunately, VPW didn't make it clear enough in PFAL what he was really talking about. A concept like cancer being a d.s. because it has "life of it's own" doesn't make sense. "My" p.h. has a life of it's own and it's "in" me, and functions with purpose as I pray and trust in God. I can't visualize every cell in my body, I can only pray for God's protection and my own safety and act according to mine and others best interests. It would seem that God's getting beat here, if the d.s. can tromp all over everyone. But - not everyone we see. Why some, not others? Questions, questions. I'm not "necessarily" saying it isn't so, but I don't think the PFAL series addresses enough information to fully qualify the conclusion. Which means to me it would have been better left unsaid. I don't think VPW "morphed" his teaching at all, by AC '79. I'm sure that he wasn't entirely clear on this topic from the get-go. He suspected certain things, and felt within his own logic it could be, but the details were slim for good reason. My 2 cents.

Yah, that's kinda the way I feel LindZee. I didn't even get a kiss, it was just wham-bam-best-60-seconds ever, and then gone. I can see why though, reading Tzaia. I guess...I don't know. If all these people wanted Graeser out, and Graeser didn't want to leave and he can't be fired...it's the same as way back when with the Way and LCM. A lot of people felt he should step off and vacate the active presidency, if not his position on the BOT's. Take a break, give it a rest. Get some "me time". He didn't want to, felt it wouldn't be "best" and probably never gave it a serious thought as a result of the external suggestions. In his case, I'm sure he considered it personally. But he wanted to stay and that was that. In his case it took the Allen lawsuit to pull it all together for him, and I'm sure he got an offer he couldn't refuse from his compatriots at the Way. And at that point, he could see the outcome and the wisdom in cutting his losses, which did no good really. He lost everything, looks like. I read here that Graeser was being accused of a "one time" affair as well as various and sundry differences with the CES group over P.P. and other stuff. It's true though Dmiller - CES dudes owe no explanation to an audience that isn't involved in CES or any of this. But they did bring it to this forum, be it one side only. But it still landed here and anyone with a brain would know what going public - GS is viewable by anyone in the world - could lead to. But do we only have to do what is "owed"? What about what's right? I'm not going to set myself as the Voice of Right here, I'm not sure what's right in this instance really. But my personal sense is that some form of communication follow up would be appropriate from the geniuses who started it here to begin with. If the concern was to actually "help" people, did that need end already? What were the original aims and intents? All done now? Dunno. But I will say, not being a CES'er and having no dog in this pony show, I wish the best to them all, particualarly the Lynn's. John was, when I knew him and worked with him at times, a great guy. I know a lot of water's gone under the bridge and that's debatable by others with their own stories, but I personally know John was a stand up kinda guy. Doesn't matter if I agree with his theology, I like a lot of people that I don't match bibles with. I do like John and all I can say is - having been a regular-Joe now these last years, and happily married for 36, I would want him to have as much and more as my wife and I have shared. He deserves it, we all do. Whatever it takes, it's worth doing the work to get it right. It's never too late.

Dot, "where did God come from?" Dunno. I'll take a stab at some thoughts of my own here - I think the issue of time - as I understand it, time is relative to matter and is a way of measuing existence. To me, in the here and now, time is constant, pretty much. But the measurement itself can be subjective and not consistent from one measurement to the next. Imagine a "long' afternoon somewhere doing something you really enjoy. The time on the clock might say it was 4 1/2 hours, but to you it's much longer, or even "timeless". That difference in awareness and experience produces a different measurement of time passed than say someone who checks the clock every hour. Still the seconds roll off, one after the other. To step in and outside the blblical/"Christian" lingo for a sec - Not knowing where God come from, His origins, could assume that God is an "it", an entity with some kind of boundaries that identify Him. In the bible God expresses Himself through actions, words, intentions. Those form a view of identity - God "speaks", "listens", "moves", "creates", "desires". So while I can't see Who's speaking or doing those things, I get the sense of who's there and an understanding of what they're like. Kind of like posting on GS - posters write words but are never seen. They're words form an image in the mind of the reader of who they are. Which....may or may not be exactly who they ere. Still, I know "what" they are, they're another person of the same species. I hope. With "God", we don't have that same assumption, in fact if we look at something like the bible we know he's not the same species. But He's drawn with some similarities in identity as us. We speak, listen, move, etc. We can't do all the things that God is written He does of course, but the manner in which God reaches out is in a way we can use. So inside that there's a chicken/egg question - is God that way to begin with, or do we have something entirely different working in a way that is usable by us? The bible talks about two hmmm...realms, worlds. Physical and spiritual. The physi side of things only seems to be aware of the spiritual, left to it's own devices. A human may look at the world around them and think any number of different things about their world and life and what it's all about. But the contact with anything spiritual, if there is anything, is elusive for many of us. It appears to be that the one has to reach out to the other. The person prays and feels a "presence", gains understanding, seems to know what something means, feels "led". That line of pursuit may take clearer form and fashion, but may be different that someone else's, and both would vouch for the validity of their own experience. I think there's a reason for that. Whatever the ways that a person's awareness comes into play it's not completely measurable by the same kind of tools we use for our own physical stuff. Which drives people buggy who would look at this topic and want that. It's like trying to make a fish be a fish by measuring it as a bird. The fish will come up short as the scales of measurement aren't the same. IOW, rather than looking at "God" and wanting God to be what I want Him to be, I think I have to accept that God is the way He is, something different, and add those differences as best they can be known into the mix rather than eliminating them because they don't fit with what I already know or want to assume. I guess the short/long answer/postulation I've come up with is that God may or may not have been alone throughout what I'd call "eternity", I have no way of completely knowing what's going on in the spritual realm. But if He was, He was/is the only thing like Himself. He could always have "been", if time isn't the measurement of His existence. God's other creations that are "spiritual", that is of His own environment and products - like the "angels" and whatever else I don't know about now, probably don't function by the same rules as we do. This sort of makes God the center of everything, existence as we know it and can imagine it now. Everything else is a product of this one "God", everything. It isn't a perposterous proposition, at all.

...and I cooked a nice egg and toast breakfast, too....I thought we had fun and really connected. Mocking and aggression...That can's barely been opened here, trust me. There's nothing to be afraid of. If it was going to get rough on GS it would have already. This has been nothing here. I can't imagine what it would be like to live in one of these households suing each other. I bet there's lot of polite biblical discourse.

LawsuitS, cinderpelt? I only read of the one, are there more? That would be good information for those who are interested. The one I read about was Graser's suit. I didn't know that it was replies to GS and GSers that led to that/those lawusit(s). Does that have anything to it being posted here to begin with? I don't thnk DWBH is out of line. The question is reasonable since this board was used to comminicate information to whoever was interested in reading it. Now that the dust has settled into a quiet swirl, I think it's very telling that those same people aren't back with some kind of update and at least a signoff to the whole business saying they're not going to post anymore here, if that's what they intend. It does make GS feel kind of like a cheap date. I wonder too, reading this now - how come that phone don't ring no more?

Giving something to someone for service rendered is one thing. Charging someone for something is another. The waitress example is a good one to see the differences. The restaurant provides the food and pays the servers to deliver it. The customer tips the server because it's understood that part of the salary of the server and other staff is to be earned directly from the customer. Everything works hand in hand, good food and preparation is charged for accordingly, and if people maintain a 15-20 per cent tipping range the server knows what they can expect if they do a good job. The job is a happy satisfied customer. Each customer gets a lot of the same service, but it's personalized for each person and one may need something another doesn't. If a person gets what they need and are happy they can choose to tip. But the tipping is a choice, based on each customers experience. Most people today have never heard of Elmer Gantry, but they do see and hear how a lot "preachers and teachers" work. And if I wanted to apply a business model like a restaurant to a church I can see it working. But a church isn't a restaurant, in theory or practice. A church's "food" is diverse but based on a few simple ingredients. All the stuff that churches choose to add to that, the buildings to meet and everything that supports their activities are like running a restaurant. And I think most church members understand that kind of a relationship with their church. Stuff costs money, if they want it and feel the need it someone has to pay for it. Be it by donation or purchase, whatever. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, any organization chooses what they want to do and how to do it. Likewise a minister or pastors slalary. He'd doing the work, it stands to reason that his work should be rewarded. From the ministers standpoint, it's a "calling", where they're fulfilling a purpose that has nothing to do with money. It's both a passion and a compulsion. If they weren't being paid, they'd do it in some form or another that they'd support out of their own pocket. So, professional, part-timer, or expert hobbyist, they would do their work regardless. To them it's work that has to be done. From the churches standpoint, what they give out of their own pockets at church isn't a "tip". It's a response to God for all that He is and does. It may go for any number of things, and those things have to be carefully considered, because the money generated through church tithes and offerings aren't tips, or donations for projects or a means to reward a minister. First and foremost people should be taught that what and how they express themselves to God for life and liberty is personal and an expression of their own gratitude and thankfulness. Not to fill an account so a new building can go up, but simply as a way of their choosing to thank God. No more, no less. If, when and how a person does it is their own decision. Forced practice, learned behavior, peer pressure - that's all counter productive to that expression being authentic and acceptable to God. It's less a matter of amount or how and more a matter of intent. When a minister or pastor charges for their services - meaning the services won't be rendered before the money is paid - it's wrong. Their calling isn't based on that. Minister's have to live like everyone else. To imply that Jesus charged for his teaching and presence by passing a basket is rediculous, regardless who says it. Charging is different than receving a gift and the fact that churches have that wrong is why they can go to heII in a handbasket, no matter how successful they look. It's amazing to me how hard that is for so many to see and remember, if indeed they ever learned it.

Happy Birthday, bro' man! Cut the cake! Spank the plank! Have a great day.

Squirrel Rescue!

Home improvement project gone bad - deja screw "You are very sure this has never happened before" feeling - deja new

The feeling you've met someone before but can't remember their name - deja who Stuck in the middle with you, again - deja glue

I agree with pret' near all that's been posted - but would also say that I've known several people who have done well with MLM ideas and efforts. I never have, we tried one that was actually a very good product and service, which was what attracted us. We actually benefitted from what was being offered and realized others could too. We made a few bucks, not a lot, and I think a check still posts once a year for a small amount, like 17 dollars or something. We just didn't pursue it after awhile, for our own reasons. But there were people we knew, real live humans, who made a good income at it and still do, far as I know. Anyhoo - I'm not a fan of the Amway kind of thing, simply because I have never met anyone who handled it well, including and especially those who felt they did handle it well. But - that opportunity you're looking at could be a good thing for you. If you like it and it looks straight up, give it a shot. I didn't see what the investment is to buy in, but if it's reasonable and not more than you'd want to lose, go for it.I think the world does look to the .com as 'the' standard for business, but not everyone needs or wants a site based for commerce, and if they did .WS would work for that too. It's just the association we have with ".com" as the universal domain but org, edu, etc. exist too. Best wishes!

I was looking for something like that myself awhile back. I think there is a power tool that will do that, but I'm not aware of where to get it, sorry. Not sure what the cost would be to rent either. I didn't find it, and I'm still considering the standard method of Weed killlers. I was advised to mow it down as short as possible, apply the Weed n Feed or crab grass killer and then let it kill the crab grass. Prepare by using a dethatcher to break up and remove some of the undergrowth thatch if there's a lot. Dig out any thick spots. Apply the C.G. weed killer and wait till it's dead. Then roto till the whole lawn, turning the soil under and then rake and level it. There's power tools you can rent to till and level it if you have a large lawn. Fertilize it and the lay down sod, roll by roll, for fast results. Or seed. We did buy some plugs a few months ago and try that route. I dethatched and prepp'd the lawn and then put in plugs of new "super" grass, plugging about every 3 feet. Our front lawn's small but I still put in about 50 plugs or so. The "super" grass didn't make it. I may have waited too long, couple days, after buying to get the best results but supposedly that was okay. But they just got swallowed uo. Flip side - mowed and waters, the mix of crab grass and lawn grass doesn't look that bad, to be honest, so I'm living with it til next year. Good luck!

BikerBabe, I'm wondering that myself, now. John K was such a nice person. Always, and I mean always, easy to work with and with a kind word. Gracious, that's the word. I can picture him now working away at one "divine design" project or another, working away. Hippie garb? It should be shown. No reason not to. Hehhe hee he. Those suits - we had some of the strangest outfits. Sorry Ted, but this ain't new information for you. Basically they were sweat suits. You'd wear them and sweat. Ventilation - what's that? They were like the desert suits in the movie "Dune" but without the ability to process the sweat and store it for drinking in "deep desert". Without storage pouches to capture, process and store the sweat, it would just evaporate, if you were lucky. Sweat suits. Way back when, I think it was the "God in America" production - we needed something for stage set that would look good, and be easy to carry on the road and setup. John came up with this design for a portable, adjustable framework for the back of the stage that held a huge piece of black muslin fabric, think it was. On that was hung a scattering of tiny Christmas lights, showing like stars, lights in the sky. When we'd be on a full stage, we'd run the scrim in the back, and then that across the back, bring the "legs" in across the sides and it would form a kind of night sky of twinkly lights. "Lights of the world". Very effective and very Kish, 'magic" out of very little. So as we criss crossed the country, John was out with us, and worked night after night setting it up, and he did a song, too. The one I remember him for was titled "He Made Me Worthy". It started with the line...."When I remember Calvary...." He did have a beautiful voice and really put himself into it. He had a kind soul and always had a good word for everyone. Thanks Mark. Thank y'all. Well, the birthday's over. I'm not 57 anymore. THAT'S a relief.

Saw a documentary last year on Hitler - part of it covered Morell, who was his personal physician and who gave him daily injections of "vitamins" and various mixtures to keep him "healthy" and energetic. There were records, diaries of Hitler's condition when he was sick and bed ridden. Then he'd get a shot from the Doctor and in minutes be bouncing around with energy, like a new man. It's been postulated that Morell may have actually contributed to his ill health. Here's a list of ingredients that are documented as being given regularly to Hitler (copied from Wikipedia) Morell kept a medical diary of the drugs, tonics, vitamins and other substances he administered to Hitler, usually by either injection or in pill form. Most were commercial preparations, some were his own. Since some of these compounds are considered toxic, many historians have speculated Morell may have accidentally contributed to Hitler's poor health. This fragmentary list of representative ingredients would have seemed somewhat less shocking during the 1940s: Potassium bromide Nux Vomica (a form of strychnine) Atropine Sodium barbitone Oxedrine Tartrate Chamomile Testosterone Prophenazone Caffeine Belladonna E. coli Dihydroxycodeine Sulphonamide Cocaine (via eye drops) Enzymes Vitamins Amphetamines Methamphetamine Proteins and lipids derived from animal tissues and fats Morell apparently never told Hitler (or anyone else) what he was administering, other than to say the preparations contained various vitamins and "natural" ingredients. Some ingredients were later confirmed by doctors who had been shown pills by Hitler while temporarily treating him. ...Cocaine was routinely used for medical purposes in Germany during that time but Morell is said to have increased the dosage tenfold. Overuse of cocaine eyedrops has been associated with psychotic behavior, hypertension and other symptoms but historians have generally tended to discount any effects of Morell's treatments on Hitler's decision-making. (end of c/p) ------------------ The documentary I watched made it clear that Hitler basically became a speed freak - and he liked it. Most speed freaks do, especially those who can maintain, eat, function. The eyedrops may not have tanked him up, but the goofball injections Hitler fell in love with undoubtedly had an effect on his mind. Anyone who's been there/done that just needs to see those old reels of Hitler cranking and spanking it and it's obvious - he was one big pack of whack. The Biggest Lie Hitler propounded was inside his sick body and cheese-whizzed brain, propped up by enough drugs to make a mannequinn dance. Methedrine addiction is a dark black hole where death looks warm and acceptable. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that a man with his power and intentions and influences could embrace the most horrific vision of the world and pursue it. Because he liked it, it made him feel good.

Mark, it was a pleasure to meet you and introduce you to my wife! We had to skeetle out after a bit, but it was great to visit and talk. Steve and Sandy - wow. Great time. Curt - he and his wife gave us as a wedding gift, 36 years ago the day we got married, a small pottery wall hanging. It's hanging on the wall right now, just inside our front door under a little placque that says "Love is spoken here". (well, my wife speaks it anyway). We've been able to keep it in one piece in all our moves over the years and it was nice to thank him for it. Again. Thanks for putting this up, it cracked me up to see Peter Wade's reaction when we told him afterwards. He is a truly gracious, present, and authentic Christian teacher and minister. He and Vivian were wonderful. Romans never sounded better. I'd highly recommmend the trip if he's going to be near any of you all. Peter is a missing link in my own history with the Way, having met him way back when at the Way Nash, but having no contact after that. I remember him disctinctly but of course he wouldn't remember us. (in fact, I had him and Johnny T mixed up at first back then) Hearing him teach on Romans tonight was really interesting - in spots it "sounds" like VPW's teaching, here and there, but it's quite different in where he goes with it. Thanks again! Go hear and meet Peter and Vivian Wade if you can!

Thank you! I appreciate the continued reminders of my age. Just kdding! I don't, I hate it! Just kidding! Thanks again, I'm glad to be of any age, as long as I can remember it! It's great to be 49, believe me! Just kidding! Those're some SWEET socks! Way to go! B-Babe, that's me between Ted and John Kish, first row. Just kidding, that's me, 3rd from the left, top row, looking spiffed out in gray polyfester and RED shirt.

Unintentional killing. It's the New "Oops".

The theme of "Cleanliness Is Next to Godliness" is perfect for the Weigh. All of that nit picky energy can be focused for an entire year, the endless desire to get everything just right and just so, in the belief that when all the physicals are accounted for and made right the spirituals can prevail. "for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess." Theme studies in Greek! = full of = ek! (eeeek!) check your Bullingers and pen this on - "from out of" Possible translations = "...but (what is within) comes from or out of extortion and excess"! Break Out discussion topics! "What's in my cup and where did it come from?" Theme Commemorative Cups - free to all standing Fellowship participants with verfiable financial gifts totalling 15 per cent or more of your net income! Get 'em while they're clean!

Happy Birthday!

Looking forward to the story unfolding! (sidenote to Mods - once identified, dundant should be left undisturbed to keep instances of redundancy to a minimum. Trust me on this one)

Possible theme: "Cleanliness is next to godliness". There's a whole bunch of old retread "teachings" the Way-bees could drag out for that. No work or thought required. "How to brush and floss - put some teeth in your walk!" "Airline packing - how to make your underwear fit iinto your shoes and other tips you'll need if you ever travel!" "How to Mow the Grass - a life's work examined, cutting keys by our own Director of Grounds Crew" "Top to bottom - How to Wash Your Walls - includes a weekly maintenance chart!" "Soap - An Industrial Counterfeit" - alternative cost cutting products list provided inside!

I guess the sugar sludge at the bottom of Calvin's cereal bowl thinned out, but a new day has brought him back to life! His gif's are giffing now! Wonderful news, WhiteDove, thanks! Give that bad boy a PI and a PU. I have used that phrase for years. Usually when asked how I'm doing. "Fair to middling" seems to work well. Operational, fully functional. Workin'. Now I have noticed a tendency in some people, folks let's call them. They ask how I'm doing and I say "oh, pretty good, how about - " and they quickly say "just pretty good?" or something like that. These aren't Wayfers, mind you. Average folks who in many cases would be doing well to be doing pretty good themselves, by my eye. It's as if you were to say "not bad" and the response is "oh...not good?" Who'd ever thought saying hello could be so complicated? It's an odd way to start a conversation, needling. Usually these conversations don't go well, either because they have nothing to really say or I take the conversation to places it was never intended. But if it was intended to be simple it would have started simple. So, don't start nothin', they won't be nothin', y'know? But some people bring their whole attic and garage with them wherever they go, so a simple "good morning" can turn into something murky and mildly threatening in the response you get. "Really? Is it...?"....that's just weird to me. I like "fair to middling". It sounds friendly, by and large.

Cool poem, JL! A blink and a nod to the fine Gang! Excellent! Good job, laddy! Sudo, there's PI alright, I expected more PU!