socks

The Wif' and I left Cahlyfohnya to go to Indiana, we went "WOW". It was a great experience. I wanted to make a change for some specific reasons. Like Jim though, we're Kalifohneeya people, so it was inevitable that we return to the Golden State eventually and we did. So if you're gathering stat's on the responses waysider, don't count me under the "lived somewhere because of continuous cattle prod brainwashing". I moved, we moved, because we wanted to try some different living experiences. We then moved from WO-WO country to the heart of Shelby Co. to live at the Way Nash and go into the Corps. So Ohio became home for about 8 years, with a brief one year break back in California. Florida after that for about another 8 years. Great state, bought a nice home our last couple years there. I never adjusted to the humidity though so I was a walking sweat stain waiting to happen. Plus, the bugs. Those big Palmetto bugs were just gross, and were next to impossible to collect rent from despite the fact they loved to come in the house and stay any chance they got. They were nasty freeloaders. Not to mention the fuzzy green spiders that ate them, which was nice except their table manners left a lot to be desired so we never got along. I battled galliantly and achieved containment of our interior property but that ain't no way to live. So we moved back to California. Here, we determined to move north of the Bay Area where we'd grown up and have been glad we did. I do have some regrets though. I wish I'd invested in IBM in 1969 when I first worked briefly as a computer operator. I also wish I'd kept my big old Silvertone sunburst flat top acoustic guitar I started on when I was 10. It would be worth some dough today and played like a beast. I also got a Fender Telecaster in '63 that was sweet. I needed to trade it in on a Gold Top LP, but if I'd had the money I'd kept it. I try to live with these regrets, passing on the wisdom to my children of some hard lessons learned. As The Girl likes to say now - "You add to the collection, you don't subTRACT from the collection". She's a goodun, as is the Boy who still has his first Fernandes Strat, a red bomb we found after scrulling through dozens of guitars. It's as true as north, perfect intonation and loves a set of .012's. They're The Future.

That's my 2 cents too. The fact that there's such a diversity of reflections on what the program was all about says something about the program, and the people that participated I think. It went through multiple iterations over the years, each time apparently keeping to the same basic tenets while changing requirements, components and expectations. Each year would have graduates fanning out, while at the same time there were people in their preparatory year, 2nd or 4th in-residence year, and interim year (once the 4 year program was installed). All of those people were either hearing or telling the/their personal "story" as to what it was they were doing and why. Obviously it wasn't the same story, whether from the coordinators, facilities or participants. In the early 80's I started advising people to not go into the program when they had an interest in it and talked to me about it. I was cautious, giving 2 reasons - the program seemed to be in flux and it might be better to wait a year or two and see what developed and 2. I couldn't guarantee what they'd get when and if they got "there", Emporia, Rome City or New Knoxville. I met up with an old friend last year who I'd all but forgotten I'd talked to about this way way back when and in hindsight, they thanked me for that advice. So it helped for one person, anyway especially looking back now and knowing what was about to come down the pike soon enough. The "real" reason I had but couldn't completely document was that I thought the program wasn't being run by really qualified people, it seemed too much all over the road. And it seemed too impersonal to really do much good for an individual (by my view). I'd recommended the program to people over the years but with caution, always. I didn't feel it something to just drop off the truck and fall into and see what happens. A person needed to have some good focus on what they were doing and wanted to do. Likewise with WOW programs - the last year I'd "promoted" it, 11 people signed up from our fellowship, a loosely aligned but lovely bunch of about 30 people. That year our 11 was more than signed up for WOW in the entire state I lived in. So I was a "believer" in the possibilities. After I heard the stories coming back over the next year and the next summer at the ROA I decided I wasn't going to do that again. My point - I do think there was a range of possibilities for what a person would or could do when they invested in the Corps program, but that was frequently subject to the influence and input of a 100's or people who weren't all saying the same things about it. Adding to that the program itself shifted over the years this way and that - and assuming the people here are telling the truth about their own understandings the only conclusion I could reach is that it was chaos and not always friendly chaos by any means. Once Martindale got to retooling it in the 90's, I think anything was possible. Those years sound just too strange to even consider. My general advice to people is don't get mixed up with the Way or the people in the Way. Stay away from it and them. It's not because there aren't good people, it's because it's too unpredictable, too subject to change at a whims notice. No solid foundation. Too many people doing what they're doing and getting deeply involved in people's lives and don't have a clue as to what they're really doing or why and are just following a misguided belief that someone somewhere up the chain is "in touch" with the powers that be and knows what they're doing. It's like herding gerbils, they consider getting their next meal down and not getting hit by a truck success. ("I ate and I'm alive - that proves we're right and you're wrong".)

That's the one. Glad you like it. One more for my baby and one more for the...

Ham, are we still talking about the Woods bunch? I don't know much about what they're doing, directly but I think I've picked up on a couple threads here that there's some information on who they're connected with, but I can't piece it together. I need the E-Z read version. What exactly do you know about them, what they're doing, building, cooking, chopping, whatever, and who they're connected/not connected with that you can share with me and the board?

But you got that harmonica down, Jonny!

That's the one! Neat pic, WD. They do sound beautiful. Thanks! (marimbas? )

Truly true, bride. A learning, training environment where there's that kind of system, recognized by all and accessed willingly could work fine IMO. Until it doesn't. Everything wears out, breaks down, cracks, shows wear eventually. Some things don't yes, but having pure water still means I have to be careful with the pitcher, knowing that even with extreme care, accidents happen. Not you, not now, not this time, not us, not me O Lord. But reality always speaks the truth regardless of how well I understand it. People will fail and so there's a huge need for connection and support. Plus, I like everything out in the open where I can see it, hands visible. That way everybody knows what's going on, like ladies and gentlemen. These guys - Joe Faulkerson. Knew him back in the day, way back. He played a mean set of congas, I remember. And really had a way with those little hand marimbas, the blocks of wood with metal tines, tuned like a harp or piano. He was a great guy. I'm fuzzy, but seems like he'd been studying - chemistry? - when he went to work at the Way. I forget now. No idea what he's been up to, but Joe was a really warm and thoughtful person. I liked him immensely, he always was a good guy to hang with, funny, smart and insightful. If he's still like that he could make a contribution wherever he worked.

butnowisee - I'm not thinking immersion either - that would be counter to what I'm proposing. Going off the grid for a time can have it's advantages, but it's like anything anywhere else - be careful who you walk down a dark alley alone with late at night. Same thing, in my mind. And that's where the connectivity to the exterior comes in - everyone needs to be connected to their "context". Working in a "real world" environment would be preferable IMO, as already stated here by you and others. Jesus worked that way with His followers. As when Jesus had one group of followers that encountered another group, and they took exception to them. His response there opens up a whole view into how Christians should, could work "together" but most don't want to. it's easier to segregate and contain, instead of integrate and hmmm, retain. (gotta get that rhyme thing going, makes it sound better) Christians like to suit up alike. Less work seeing the good guys from the bad guys, y'know. The common view of pastoring is the sheep and the shepherd. But effective pastoring of a "flock" isn't really about containment, it's about retention. Containing the group in a definable space of some type isn't the goal. Retaining the flock in a healthy state is. Pastoral functions are going to be transparent a lot of the time. Again, the end goal isn't to elevate the pastor, it's to support the pastorED. But I digress. Again. Oh me be bad. Strap my hide and call me Judy, I'm a going offa the thingie again.

I had a really interesting discussion with a retiree in the study group my wife and I have attended - he's "retired" but working for a Christian organization that conducts Christian training fellowships, a group that references Jones's work in "contextual Christianity" in their approach to working overseas and in other countries. We talked about "Practical Theology" and the implications of developing Christian faith that's sound in doctrine while being relevant to the times and cultures in which it's lived. Practical Theology was VP's thing, what he aimed the Way Corps training towards. As a participant and graduate of the whole program I'd have to say we never clearly articulated or had laid out to us exactly what the goals and aims of "Practical Theology" as a pursuit was or was supposed to accomplish. "WOW", "Word in Culture", there was a lot of discussion about that but frankly it was years after the fact that it began to dawn on me what a truly "contextual" approach to Christianity might look and act like, in a way that could be reliably duplicated over and over. I think now that was because the principles and concepts were never put together to form a paradigm that was recordable. Lived, to various extents, but not recorded and kept in a form to pass on and build upon. In order to have a theology that's practical - applied in some kind of current context - it has to be doctrinally "sound" and lived in an environment that's ethically and morally strong. Whole nother story could go with that but simply having the theology firmed up and laid out won't produce a practice that's morally or ethically strong. That takes, I believe, a strong connection to a Christian community that's built around consistent oversight and pastoring. Yada yada, a "teaching ministry" does not a "practical theology" make, is my point. I thought of this in regards to this group and their farm or whatever it is and their efforts, whatever they are, which I don't really know. But - anything like the previous "attempt" of The Way Nash to be repeated successfully or say more successfully would IMO have to do more than go off in the woods and read the bible and work up a sweat chopping wood. It has to be connected to something larger, that provides that pastoral element to it. Otherwise, there's no compass, no guiding hand to prevent the effort from going off on it's own tangent. No context that's being expanded out into, to define what the result should look like. The "5 Corps Objectives" can actually serve that purpose of developing a "practical theology", IMO but only when they're left open ended, and are without the constraints of being used solely to serve a single vision. Left to an individuals own development in the pursuits they choose, they're fine. They could be worded differently, expanded upon, added to. There's a lot of ground that's covered with them. "Inventing" a whole new culture around "the Word" that strikes to emulate some kind of model based on "the first century church" is probably going to fail, since that first century church is no more, those times and culture are gone. The time that is now is the one in which the Christian faith has to be lived, the world in which we find ourselves. Going off on one's own lends itself to an incestuous environment - the risk is that the "new" culture can't be authentic unless it becomes it's own end result and that acts as an impediment to developing a "practical theology". It's only practical when applied into a very limited scope.

Banned but coming to a theater near you... The Distance Reluctantly crouched at the starting line Engines pumping and thumping in time The green light flashes, the flags go up Churning and burning they yearn for the cup They deftly manuver and muscle for rank Fuels burning fast on an empty tank Reckless and wild, they pour through the turns Their prowess is potent and secretly stern As they speed through the finish, the flags go down The fans get up and they get out of town The arena is empty except for one man Still driving and striving as fast as he can The sun has gone down and the moon has come up Not long ago somebody left with the cup But he's driving and striving and hugging the turns And thinking of someone for who he still burns Because he's racing and pacing and plotting the course He's fighting and biting and riding on his horse He's going the distance He's going the distance He's going for speed She's all alone, all alone, all alone in a time of need He's going the distance No trophies, no flowers, no flashbulbs, no wine He's haunted by something he cannot define Bowel shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse Assail him and bail him with monster truck force Because he's racing and pacing and plotting the course He's fighting and biting and riding on his horse He's going the distance

Well, nothing against Li'l VPster, I'm sure he means well but the only out of comfort zone thing shown on the site is if you're maybe aftraid of fire or getting burned to a crisp, as you noted, Jim. I know that if it were me, that would definitely be out of my comfort zone so I'd not be able to attend. Although the slogan for it could be slick - "Go and Glow". Anyhoo-the site's got to be for people who already know what's up and what it's all about. There's nothing there that gives any indication of the quality of the program or even what you'll be doing. Maybe it will be a "glow-gram", not a program. I can think of a couple things that will completely blow that comfort zone right out of their scrubby plaid shirts and wool caps, but that would be like, y'know, not cool and all. Let's hope the mean well....and act responsibly.

Unscripted, picture the local Middle School Jazz Ensemble jamming on "Giant Steps" in different keys. Minus the love.

Ham, that's a whacky contractor. :) Today I see it as "the vision thing". What's the vision - what's in my mind's eye when I'm working on something, how do I see the finished effort looking? The old "what does success look like?" thing. If I'm "toughening up", what for? What am I expecting to use all that Toughie Time for? How tough do I really have to be? What's the Toughness Test, the Standard of Toughicity that needs to be met? The ability to sit through yet another boring drone session by Someone With Important Things To Share-That-I've-Already-Heard-A-1000-Times? That's the worst part of it all - having to listen to verbal fish wrap from someone who, if asked a single question, would go catatonic in their inability to maintain their concentration! Who if they heard a cough or sneeze at the wrong time sensed the presence of Satan himself? That's what sucked the most - insisting that others be tough enough to endure pointless dissertations on their current state of "mind" while being unable to effectively regurgitate yet another rendition of the Blue Book if their glass of water has finger prints on it??? I was one of those youngsters who'd been raised by the Iron Dad. My Dad was a funny guy, personable, someone who'd give the shirt off his back if you needed it. Many good qualities. He worked all his life for the Railroad, starting - as he told me many times - as a young guy out of the service, loading 100 pound sacks of grain into box cars 10 hours a day. Ripping rail, building trestles, working his way from the bottom up. He was a quiet force of nature who didn't asked for, and seldom got, a break he didn't earn. My wife's Dad was a Tugboat Captain, lived all his life on the water and died on his boat working, at the age of 72 saving the lives of the crews of his boat and the boat that struck his. Despite the fact he never spoke in a tone of voice loud enough to hear 10 feet away, on the water he was The Captain, where "tough" would be an understatement. Still, everyone who worked for and with him cried at his memorial. In their day, neither one of these guys was someone who'd curse in public or hesitate to open a door for a woman, or say "thank you" and please. They considered unseemly inappropriate behavior unacceptable and wouldn't stand for it. Looking back as a young man I probably wanted to challenge myself too, prove myself, live up to the images of our parents and grandparents we'd grown up with. But to those men, being an obnoxious azshole was the shortest route to trouble. They excused themselves from that sort of thing, knowing they were better than that regardless of what anyone else might think. Now looking back, those are the kinds of roots I see that have grown, the standards that others are measured against. I don't see all of this nutty stuff experienced that we're talking about here as "tough" and certanly not honorable, it's just best left behind, learned from if it can be and seen for what it was.

Thanks Sunesis. penworks, you've been there, done dat. :) Appreciate your thoughts too. I gather we're talking on this thread about: bullying yelling accusing defending threatening screaming freaking out And other obnoxious behavior. No dignity, no honor. Just unscripted caterwaulling and snotting around. Then or now that kind of behavior would be wrong in nearly all situations, even if the reasons were right - meaning an extreme circumstance appeared to require an extreme response. Wrong to me also means inappropriate. In the same way that mooning someone would be inappropriate at work, or in public say at the store. One would hope. Sure, you might push a gun out of someone's hand that didn't know it was loaded and yell at them to put it down. Less appropriate, yell at someone because their nametag's on the wrong side and accuse them of trying to destroy the future of God's Holy Word. Being challenged is one thing. In groups of people working together, that has to be carefully crafted with responsibility and understanding. Expectations have to be clear - what're we doing, why, what should I expect to happen? What if it doesn't, how do we handle exceptions, what're we really doing here? The Way was, is by all accounts - short on skills and interest in handling things that way. It's more acceptable to just smack out some boozey plan, lay it out in general terms and point and say "go thatta way". And gauge success, not by any solid standard or metric that can be clearly articulated, but by how fast someone runs out the door to go thatta way. Cus "if you don't go, how can you know?".... In the "early years" I felt like it was a chance to participate in building something. As time went on, something got built. Y'know - like, if it was a house you're building and at some point you stand back and the roof line's crooked and the doors are where the windows should be and everytime you ring the doorbell the toilet flushes and you can't find the General Contractor onsite for seems like days...whattya gonna do? :)

Thanks Sky. The questions are waysider's, repeated in Bold, with my answers underneath each. Exposure to VPW was one of my primary goals, going "in". Way Productions was the other. I got both, as expected. I think you're right about the root cause and source of the misdirected training program. On GS I read posts that lay the blame on Way Corps - the evil Way Corps, bad "students" who didn't follow the direction of their teacher and his example who, if they had, would have done fine. Completely ignores the facts. And those who were exposed to him and his program directly can speak for themselves of course and should. But when I look back at the 1st Way Corps, they were all pretty much extremely nice, kind and approachable people in those first years. Very warm, working to gain some experience and wisdom. As the next few years progressed, each group came "in" and by and large the same kind of attitudes were prevalent. There were weaknesses and strengths as you'd expect in people so young - early 20's most. These were formative years. Not everyone formed "perfectly" by any means, but by and large I think looking back I can see all the various personality types in those first few years of the Way Corps. Some were more aggressive than others, some wanted a simple lifestyle and approach to Christian ministry, others wanted a more structured and controlled environment. None of that is wrong inherently, most of the interests could have contributed to a very diverse and effective "Way Ministry". And there were some problems along the way too. But overall, nothing all that extraordinary. VPW's influence was major. Primary. He was "the man", the Teacher of PFAL, the draw. Two things informed the Way Nash environment that he brought to it that made it extremely difficult to work together - anger, and conflict. He had a temper and it blew full force often. That produced fear in people - if VPW got tanked up on something and blew a gasket, people got fired, reamed, humilated, scorched. You had to really "toughen up" if you wanted to work with him at those times. Otherwise you either tried to avoid him or wait it out. Young people are heavily affected by that. It produces all kinds of negative toxic stuff - fear, resentment, misunderstanding. Avoidance - biggie. Avoid whatever makes VPW p.o.'d and he's happy. That leaves a lot out of the mix in the relationship, it tips one-sided, things that need to be addressed aren't or if they are it's extremely difficult. It's easy to postulate "that was the price to be paid" but that's wrong IMO - that isn't a price worthy of charging. It's not idle speculation to consider - why should anyone have to belch through that kind of stuff? It just shoots whatever you're trying to do in the foot finding that every month or so something's going to blow that gasket and instead of working through it intelligently and lovingly people are going to have to weather this s-it storm. How can you move ahead knowing that at any moment what you're doing will be deemed "completely screwed up" and straight from the devil himself and end up being micro-managed to the point it's lifeless? It also offers a view to the heart of the man - something's keeping that anger stoked. The resentment of past experience, conflicting interests (ministry, theology, business, profits)...personal situations, inabliity to accept criticism and differing ideas. Resistance to change. Could be some, all, others. Conflict - I feel now looking back that VPW tried to mix his interests of Christian ministry, business and entertaiment and succeed in all of them through the Way Ministry. The Way became a religious business for practical purposes, selling PFAL as a way to produce profit streams and build a "profitable" self-sustaining ministry. I've posted this before, it's not a unique perspective. For a man who said he had God's instruction on the bible in a way not known for 2000 years, that is a dangerous combination. The system of marketing that teaching through PFAL produced an unsolvable conflict IMO - A. people need what PFAL teaches and can't be true Christians as God wants without it. B. You can't have it unless you pay for it. There's no way that deal will work in the long run, it opens the door up for all kinds of problems. Lots of people think it's doable - but time and again those who try to do it run into the same kinds of problems any profit-based non-religious financial endeavor does and tanks because unlike a normal business, religious endeavors like the Way Ministry fly under their own Country's Flag, with self styled systems of accountablity. "God" is the accounter - and in ministry's like the Way He tends to agree with every hair brained plan laid and when they go awry it's everyone else's fault but their own so there's no learning, no progress, just more of the same. So for me the idea of "toughening" up in order to have a functioning relationship with VPW was useless. It was what it was. I did learn some good and useful things from my time around and working with him. I also learned I'd never work with young people that way, so it did help me immensely in raising my kids and many other situations.

My first question, which is multi-faceted, is this: How many, who participate here, went into their respective programs, whether it was WOW, Fellow Laborers, Way Corps or other, with any kind of advance notice that the programs were designed, in part, to "toughen you up"? What does the expression,"toughen you up" mean? My wife and I expected the Way Corps to be challenging in assorted ways but based on what we knew of it from the first 3 Corpszes and what our goals were, the term "toughen up" would have meant along the lines of maturing and increasing our personal capabilities in Christian ministry. I don't remember it being used directly, maybe it was, if it was it and similar terms would have been looked at benevolently, not in a negative way. Keep in mind - the "physical" training was basically bulls-it. Meaning there was some, but it was a work in progress at first, developed on the fly each year by each corps. The face of it was "running" in the mornings. The "running" thing started when the 1st Corps did it, and it took on a life of it's own. They "ran" a few times a week, a distance known as "to the Stop sign and back" - down Weirwille Rd to think it was Shelby, due west, and then back. A little less than a mile. It was done as a group, go run, shower, start your day. That was hardly extreme physical training, and given you had guys like Del D. there, you know it was more of a hoot than a holler. It took on a life of it's own and became a whole regimen. The corps group in size, blah blah blah. But it was based on bunch of guys and girls runnning down a road and back, to get some exercise. Some people like me actually came to enjoy the running. I did a lof it and developed a personal training program for myself. I really enjoyed mid to long distance running for a few years, 3 miles and up. It was an interesting thing for me to do personally, mild by some standards, but I never expected anyone else to do what I was doing. "Running" in the morning became a cup o' coffee more or less, even when we started going longer distances. (which wasted a lot of the program's time having the whole group do it, IMO). I don't know how I'd evaulate the "mental" aspect of it. I never really "toughened up" in that area I think, for better or worse. Question #2: Do you think of yourself as a "weakling getting victimized"? (Either then or currently?) No. Question #3: Although I'm sure, that, at the time, we must have seen it as a "challenge to do bigger and better things", does that challenge include sweeping these things under the rug and pretending they were insignificant? I'm not sure what "these things" means. Some stories are better left untold, IMO. Personal matters are personal and there are areas where I don't feel free to discuss certain things directly because I don't want to do harm to others or myself, for that matter. Anything addressed to me directly I would try to answer in that light. I don't take liberties where I feel it would hurt someone today, all these years later. We're talking things 30 years old or more, in some cases. That's a lot of water under the bridge. Still, I do post things here that aren't entirely positive at times about events and people past. I know there are larger issues being discussed here. I try to honor the memory and intentions of the day, as much as possible. Other than that, not saying something doesn't mean it's been swept away, it can also mean it's not appropriate for the time or place. IMO.

Since any chance of ever being forgiven for anything has been long since lost, this: Mssr. Weirwille did a good job of marketing his anti-"trinitarian" opinion by characterzing it in one restrictive image - "3 Gods vs 1". As with some of his material from the JCING book, it's a very incomplete and inaccurate rendering of the topic and does little to aid in understanding who Jesus Christ was or is. It's a "negative sermon" in the form of a slogan.

The only "unforgivable" thing about this thread is that these whacky strains of "thought" are being discussed again and again and over and over. You see where it leads to - this makes passing a stone look quick, which would be worth it because at least there'd be some relief at the end. Sometimes I think some of youse guys just like beating up on Mike, and Mike likes it so he keeps coming back because he knows at least on GS he'll get some kind of attention and coverage. :blink: It's a tough way to get your feelgoods, that's for sure.

NO doubt, Mike. CES has formidable resources, as I'm sure they're got members with enough "liberated" copies of the PFAL series to choke a giraffe. It's been a long time but I heard stories of people walking out of their positions at various locations with all manner of loot. Seen some of it. All for good though, so not to worry. Brains - I don't know what the role call's been there. Lynn I love as the brother in Christ he is to me. Schoenheit's got a grip. Graeser's been gripped too tight for a long time. Don't know on the rest, there's a whole roster of people there I'm sure I've never met and won't. But I digress. For those to whom it means something, the CES endorsement is powerful medicine I'm sure. When all of these SOB's stop selling their particular prescription of enlightened understandings of the Word of God as their own property to trade in I'll consider thinking about possibly giving a minute to maybe thinking about what it would be like to consider thinking about it. In the meantime I don't do business with people who sell the Word of God.

It's a passing comment, Mike so don't let me slow down the cirkle jerk. But yeah, CES lacks credibility on many fronts so their endorsement is minor at best. At the expense of introducing some actual logic to that point - changing their minds about something doesn't validate it. "I used to reallllly dislike the founder of the Klu Klux Klan, but y'know - now that I've really looked at what he wrote and had time to consider it without the emotional constraints of the times I'd have to say the Klan literature is the best I've ever read...". I'm sure you catch my drift. But nice try. :) "I used to just HATE the way mud tasted. But now, I think it's better than candy!" "I change my mind every few years, and have for years! I think the PFAL class is GREAT and getting better all the time! Just wait a few years and it'll be even better than it is now and they'll be new books and DVDs and all kinds of cool new stuff to buy we'll be selling. Sorry, I was, I mean we were just realllly p.o.'d when I - I mean, we got fired but now that er-I mean we're all cool about it now, PFAL'S GREAT! Hope you didn't take all that stuff we - I mean, I said when I - I mean I got fired seriously - because now I'm - I mean we're thinking more straighter!!!!" I have to remember to be nice though - CES having what was it - an anniversary? I'm sure the air was thin on the Mountain that day.

:blink: Unfortunately, not the kind of endorsement that adds credibility. Ah, well. Take what you can get I guess.

Soooooo....PFAL has a non-essential step being expounded upon with an ambigious and somewhat trite storee about red drapes.... why was that in there again? I agree with you though WTH - the 3 basic instructions can't be beat, they're beautiful in their simplicity in how they address getting to know God and the "abundant life" of John 10:10b. They're a little stiff in the shorts on #3 - "what to do with it, etc". but that does apply well to many areas of life. So yeah.

Sorry cman - scratch 'em out. :) I know, EXc. We were talking about this back here at the shack earlier. When ya gotta go, ya gotta go. Snowball Pete Maggie Muggins Mary Grannon - creative force behind... What's kind of scratchy looking back - why these names to characterize those kinds of people in PFAL? Wonder what the connection was in VP's mind, if there was one, or if they just sounded good to him.

Aw, don't sell yourself short, Geo. I bet you guys looked kinda cute in our WOW T-Shirts. Babes in Boyland? 3 bases, that's more than an axle-dent.