socks

Hello all and happygay! It's been many a moon since I entered these hello'd portals. Got a heads up on this topic and a reference to something I'd posted at some point in the dim, distant past (who can remember this stuff?) and I wanted to contribute to the topic, happygay, albeit off the top of my head (boink). True to form and upon re-read I can see that the following incredibly enlightening blather is long, so long that it's probably best taken in small doses and with a bib installed for any sleep induced drool. As always, my best to all, keep a stiff upper lip, and without exception if anyone is blessed and improved by these words don't hesitate to forward your Love Offerings and Tithes directly to me so that I, socks, can continue this great work I do and remember we like love that swishes not clinks so hold the coins. That addie again: E-ChurchofTheBigLoveforSocks@payyourdebt-here.com A few thoughts to level-set: "evidence" of past events could be said to be based on 3 things - recall/memory, artifacts, and analysis/comparison. What's remembered, any observable results and examination of both. The essence of any "past" event is gone and unretrievable, the actual event can't happen "again" in it's original state. We perceive in the current moment. Memory and anticipation form our views of what we call past and future and our functional consciousness could be described as the combination of 3 perceptions - the past, now and the future. Still, we only exist in the moment but if we step back for a sec and look at it we see that "now" is a point in a continuous strip and only separated from the whole when we impose a specific kind of view or measurement - we experience consciousness "in" the strip, so this isn't a difficult way to view "life" There are no inherent separations in the states as they occur and we are aware of all 3 states at all times. Along with that I think it's important to fold in the fundamental fact that each of "us" is a unique instance of consciousness. You aren't me for some very basic reasons and although we might view the whole of existence as some kind of big "oneness", the basic unit of measurement for consciousness is one - "me". Knowing that is obvious I know (little humor there) and is debatable since there's a lot we don't know yet but for practical purposes it's how we experience reality - each one their own, beacause it's the only experience we can each have. As a result we can only accumulate instances of experience "one" at a time, we can't retrieve them in their original form although we can remember them and we can anticipate more because we've learned that our current experience will continue, until it doesn't anymore if that's in fact what happens (something we haven't experienced and as a result can't remember so we can't fully examine, although we might anticipate it based on what we observe and experience). So having said that - "validation" is an interesting term and concept. I can communicate to you what mine is. The sun came up this morning. We both probably saw that, we both would likely agree on it and we'd both probably agree that tomorrow it will again. Not because we have the "same" experience but because we both experienced the same thing, individually. As to Christianity, God, Jesus Christ - if there are the points of experience we want to discuss, I could describe "mine" to you but they won't be yours and in fact can't be so the value is a measured one. We both know there's a sun - we can see it. You observed that God is "invisible" although I wouldn't agree on that as a good term for the relationship between God's state and our physical state but I understand what you mean I think. Jesus described "spirit" (and also noted that God is spirit) as like the wind, where no one knows where it comes from or goes but we know it's there. The effects, the artifacts of wind are known and can be gathered but (in the metaphor) we only see the results, not the "wind" itself. (although dust and rain and the like, well, it's a metaphor, or something...) " So then is everyone "born of the spirit" said Jesus and that's where we are I think in relation to God and our overall awareness of God both internally and externally. (yet we do have information and the gathered testimony of those in the past - on the simplest level this is why people read the Bible or books that speak to "spiritual" matters to have ways to learn from the collected experience and observations and "revelations" of others). The question can be asked "why doesn't God do this or that, or put up a billboard in the sky reading "Here I am" or make things different than they are so it would "easier" to understand and know Him. Given what we know and seem to know or at the least can guess at - I think we're better served to accept the way existence is and look into it to find "the truth". For the whole history of man as we know and from the evidence we can see and examine this appears to be the way it was, is and will be for the foreseeable future. Maybe not, but it's reasonable to assume our universe won't change much - until it does and if it does we'll know that, then). I believe that which is true will reveal and render itself to us from all angles and perspectives, if we simply look and persist. We often look into the past and wonder "why" and "how", examining the events that have occurred. We conclude and learn. The trick is to remember (LOL - I'm killin' myself here!) that "new" experience is right here and now and to not limit ourselves solely to what's remembered, nor to what we can anticipate (based on that) but also to what we learn now. This would be in line with what Jesus spoke of concerning the spirit - if it's moving, we might want to at least be aware of hmmm, what's "in the air" at any given time. Where it all gets like, totally crazy man, is that at any time, any"one" can interact completely independently of any other instances of consciousness and have an impact on any and/or all others. At the base level, that's insanely bizarre, so potentially chaotic that - geez, it would be a wonder that anything continues or persists at all. Yet we do. Stuff does. There is order and design, if there wasn't there'd be no stable "now", no recall that could be formed consistently and no clear anticipation for what might come next. It's so basic that it's assumed, but if we were to be in a world where nothing was assumed that would be a fascinating realization, at least to me. One view would be - yeah well, so that's true - total chaos, we just don't know it. But really that can't be true, because we have recall/memory that what we now experience has some comparison, relationship, to what's come before - we can see that, feel it, touch it. The consistency of our experience speaks for itself. Yet, here and there if not more we can, may see forces beyond our immediate awareness that are repetitive. With God and Jesus Christ - the same applies, and only for each of us, individually, for ourselves. When it comes to validation I normally suggest "Go get some". I can't give you mine. I can try but it never works. It can't. It might make an impression or offer some enlightenment but it can never be "yours". Simply put, we all have to get our own.

Like I wrote earlier, I ring in on this topic from different platforms periodically. I commented to the balance of opinions and labelling/"name calling" in last year's moderator discussion on the rewriting of the GS Forms "rules" language. This is nothing new, for me. From time to time I get personally insulted (gasp! oh my!!) ... Lets say "suprised"....by the way some of the things are written here.....not what is written, please note and trust me-not everything that can be written has been by any means. Some of that's personal taste, of course. I'm adding my personal opionon on that here - feel free to disagree. I chuckle at the 'elusive' description because to me - it seems - like you're the one actually inferring something other than what you're writing. But again - that's me, these eyes and this brain. Feel free to discount it. I don't ask for anyone's respect here. So this is nothing new, although I don't make a big deal out of it. Most of the GS posters communicate very well, in my opinion. There's cycles here that flow from a variety of unrelated conditions and when/as they do it's more noticeable to me. I do feel that while GS provides room and space for expression, that opportunity is lessened in effectiveness at times. Actually, I'm readying to sign off of GS overall. It's not working for me, in terms of what I want to accomplish at this point of my life, and there's only so much of that from here to it's logical (albeit temporary) conclusion. Not sure what next steps are ahead along this line but something mobile and dynamic seems in order. I wish you and all well, my friend,.

Feel free. The point was and is - still simple. Language and the use of slurs and trash language to communicate points. It's not that hard to understand. This is a board about the Way, Way topics are discussed. So the use or racial slurs and trashy language (the constant references of words like scumbag, etc. ) warrant a look-see - me included. I think - that's in my opinion, which is why I've stated it - here. If this was a board about guitars, I'd write the same things, in the context of the board's topics. About guitars. It's not elusive, but if you want to see if that way, go right ahead. There's nothing but what you see-what you get in what I'm writing. Take it, or leave it.

"So offended"...? Sigh. Rinse, repeat. Sigh. what is "harsh" language? Never mind. Forget I brought the topic up. I was discussing this topic with someone outside the Way-Weird World Sphere who completely understood. It's nothing to do with the criticisms of the Way or VPW, specifically and everything to do with elevating the level and quality of communication of ideas. I forget how siloed the focus is here.

That makes two of us, our bad. True Garth. Well, figuratively speaking, you know what I mean. :)

Oh Pul-eez. Until you start communicating in English that's common to this our day and time and not the day and time of the first time you heard that phrase, you're going to be hard to read. I'm being nice, trust me. You write like you don't have a thought process of your own that hasn't been lifted from something you heard or read. And by the way, you're kindly invited to manifest some of that exousia you're advertizing so the other humans can see it. Of late I don't see or hear of anything coming out of the Way that would support their claims and teachings other than their own blathering. And that's what it is - cheap religious gif clip art as compared to real living color. Ignoring the past can be troublesome. Next time you get in a car to drive, do so as if it's the first time and ignore what you've already learned. Lemme know how that works out for you.

Are you still "in" Copen? If so, yes, you definitely should write "her" a letter. I would say that those two would make that topic undesirable to contemplate. Are you referring to their much rumored "relationship"? Any information to share as an insider? I met Donnna when she first went to fellowship in Hayward, CA, and the Rozester long before she elbowed Bob Winegarner out of the Crow's Nest seat. So curious, what are you hearing?

Oh, thanks, almost forgot. I was actually referring to the broader population of "the world", as if y'know, we're "people". Note to self: get out old green name tag for proper identification.

The idea of being wrong and changing one's mind - and admitting it - has become as UnAmerican as apple pizza, jeff. (no apples were harmed in the making of this post) We have more euphimisms for "I was wrong" than we can shake a stick at. It seems more and more, less and less people are "wrong" about anything, ever, at all. And God forbid it be pointed out. The modern information culture has had a difficult transition into accountability. It's amazing the low level of authentication that's required to validate or verify a "true fact". When a Google search can locate a 1,000 personal reflections on a 1,000 blogs, tweets and posts ... it can be understandably difficult to locate a true "record" that's usable. And easy too - more information isn't bad, it's good. But it does require some intelligence working with it to make it usable, some purpose, etc.

The "politically correct" reference is a hoot, Garth, in one syllable. The fact you view not using slurs and low-rent language as being politically correct just continues to illustrate how GS promotes and protects bottom feeding to get points across. But Pawtucket can't guarantee quality or intelligent discourse, the board is a blank slate. I've come to expect some graffiti level, restroom stall-door scratchings. Now that I've seen this is acceptable and a pattern I know the limits are much broader than I've restricted myself to. I see lots of possibilities. So be it.

Actually, I chime in about once a year on the slur/terms/crap-communication topic. Far back as Waydale, in this board's context. It's never gotten any traction overall but I continue to do so when it strikes me, for no other reason than I think it's important and perhaps it will help those who post here to "recover". In much the same way Carlin points out, as long as we use these terms and words to reflect negatives we're empowering them and giving them their strength. No one can say it's in the eyes of the reader when the context clearly communicates a negative - it must mean something and it does. I like Carlin, a lot. Or did while he was alive and still appreciate his thoughts, funny and otherwise.) But his point is a good one. Look at Michael Richard's effort to make a similar point couple years ago - he was way out of his league. A term used in a negative context speaks for itelf - I could say "warm and fuzzy" and mean something very negative by it. It doesn't matter if it shouldn't mean such and such. When the context defines it as negative, it's negative. The word "kraut" is only representative of the way topics are engaged here on GS, and I realize that's completely acceptable and reasonable to some of you. That's my point and it may spark some alternative thinking here and there, maybe a little, maybe a lot, maybe not at all.

Okay, let's get out the dictionaries and history books and beat it to death. "Kraut", the movie, coming to a dump near you. To me, IMO, in this scratchie little noggin it's an indicator of the character and quality of a person's thinking and communication. The words thing, the words we choose. I know - call me nutty. There - felt better didn't it? And of course *tada* - the ubiquitous all-purpose excuse appears by even those who see and see very well - on GS if it's about Weirwille, it doesn't matter what's said or how it's said or what the terms of engagement are. There are none - "do as thou wilt" - return evil for evil, act as one wants and as much as one wants and in as many ways as one wants. It''s - how's it go - "good therapy"......? I think I read that here awhile back. If he'd been Hispanic, what would he be called? If he'd been Italian-o-ski, what would the pile of pejoratives be? Japanese? Several goodun's for Asians. Why limit it to one single nationality? Let's start using them all. "WOW" right? I'm sure one of the geniuses here can figure out a platform to support that. Sorry - to me, IMO - It's just a weak way to communicate and it surprises me that anyone of intelligence (Garth you're highly qualified in that category) would make that allowance with an excuse. But I'm not perfect either, so I understand. I work for a company that's owned by a larger German company, so it's kind of funny now that I thunk about it and I did a little for a sec there. You'd want to have a big disclaimer on your head if you used that term on a conference call, I gar-awn-tee. But this is GS. Standards here are...well, I guess they're just...not...you know what i mean. Like that, and stuff.

The "Kraut" usage is fascinating. I love it. It's a derogatory term for a German, used historically as a slang slam against Germans. And by your decision with Weirwille, appropriate, Garth. Which is fine, you just have to expect that there may be a negative response to it. Like calling an African-American - a nig ger. Not all African Americans of course, as you've stated - just one someone feels deserves the term applied to that one person. Hmmm - Okay, but don't be suprised if your head gets kicked in by someone who hears it and takes offense to it and then realizes afterwards they can't put your skull back together to say they're sorry they misunderstood. Silly I know, "PC" and woeful behavior but a reality. It's just fascinating that we can use racial slurs on the board, applied to Weirwille, and it's okay. But not, as you've noted, applied to all Germans. Of course. You have every right. I'd still advise - watch your head. But no problem, noperz.

Ah yes, Mr. Runner, the kids. Yepperz. I've always been - (and I don't want to insult anyone here, if this is too close to home it's not meant to anyone's harm) - incredibly insulted by parents who don't do right, do their best, by their children. That topic is really a case study in how I view "Way" stuff. I"m very watchful of them and protective - they're my kids, it's my job. If I don't, no one else will. So I have clear lines and boundaries. To be perfectly frank, I don't care what someone taught or how much they pumped it as "God's Word", I'm the ultimate authority on raising my children, my wife and I together make the decisions, not someone else. When they were little I decided, not someone else. So no amount of peer pressure or "doctrine" would cause me to do something with my children if I didn't think it was the right thing to do. So I don't get people who did things they felt pressured to do, they felt bad about - but did it anyway. Tell me I'm going to be unblessed, go to h ell tonight and not pass go - fine. I'll see ya when you get there. I'm not going to screw my kids over to make someone else's idea of what's "right" happen if it's not right by me. On a side note, I first met JP and Sarah W at the Way in '69, and they were youngsters. First conversation I had with JP was out under the "apple trees" with a few others and he was going on about how he "couldn't wait" to get out of New Knoxville and see some of the country. He was hot to head out to California, which was funny because here we were in from The Coast and excited about coming in to Ohio. He was young, and ready to get outta Dodge. Who could blame him? Perfectly normal behavior for someone his age. I never had a bad time with JP. He was straight up in all the time I knew him. Honest, as best he knew to be and in the most difficult of times, gracious.

Awww, Linda. The incongruity of a 58 year old adult male discussing events that are 20 to 40 years old and that involve people that are either dead or haven't been seen in as many years...I'm sure you can see my dilemma. Few days ago I was kayaking down a river, casting an ultra light rig across a clear river top, followed by not one but two seals. Yes, seals. To my right, my wife's kayak drifting along. To my left, my son who is so water-friendly and fleet footed he can hop across two kayaks midstream without spilling my morning Mimosa- I wish you could see what he can do in the water. He's a natural and he knows little if any fear. Good times? Morgan Freeman's had some great script lines - one of the best - "...get busy livin' or get busy dyin'..." Most important to me - make today a double down win - grand today and grand to look back to somewhere down the line. Two - two - two good's in one!

The shields/up comment meant that on GS you're protected. You (or anyone) can say just about anything you want - like call JP's kid a "punk" online and get away with it. (that's just one example and no I don't have anything to do with his camp deal/whatever it is and have no interest in it) As long as it's negative about the Way or Way information. I've posted this before it's nothing new from me - anyone can get pretty foul in what they say as long as it's on the negative. You and I both know that in the real world you'd have the long end of a 2X4 stuffed up your rear if you talked that way to people. But in the online world imaginations soar and the rhetoric steams. GS has become less than it's promise of late, in my opinion. I have nothing to contribute for the most part so I don't post much. Big whoopdee doo. If you don't care, that's cool, I don't either. I don't consider what I'm posting to be in "defense" of the Way, VPW, etc. etc. so if that's what you mean, kindly stow it. I'm not defending the Way, VPW, or you. Speaking of which - you're right - this is my perspective and it speaks for itself. And no, Ham, I'm glad to see you understand your "spirituality" doesn't rely on me. I never said it did and can't remember even ever thinking that it might. So we're clear on that. I hope.

You can do whatever you want to, RR. I'm sure you will anyway. You can't write coherently, why should I expect you to read coherently. Excel, I'm sure you would agree that GS has been a place where you can say what you want. That right has been upheld and although it might be difficult, you've been defended at every turn.- you in fact haven't done what posters like Ham have done incessantly, (uh oh, I'm being specific now, I need to make this more vague if I can) there's others too, (there that works) and honestly, when the pages of crap-fest yucks pile up and on and on and on - well, it's a free board, so I shouldn't complain. The recent thread Bolshevik has started is another perfect example. It's going to engender a pile on of yuck yucks from the muck meisters here who will say nothing ("nothing! certainly something!" - okay) of content but make jokes a-plenty. It should be in the "Silly" forum, not here. But it does a good job illustrating eggsackly what I'm talking about. GS is kinda going down the crap-fest falls IMO. This isn't about you Xa. I understand where you're coming from. Trust me - I know exactly what you mean, Kiddo. There are things I will never post here because - privately or publicly - I'd get stoned for it or politely called a deluded liar. Things that are true and factual, of which there is no question as to the veracity. As far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to degrade myself by trying to convince anyone else - and you shouldn't either and I'm proud of you that you don't. If they don't want to believe you - f-k 'em. It's your life, you've lived it and you don't owe any apologies or explanations to anyone.. So before I pull "BS" on myself yet again - (I've counted 5 so far) please, proceed without me GS. Hope this board helps. Good! RumRunner, but please, having read your last post - proceed without me.

No, I'm not about to do that RumRunner. I dont' get it, get that, and won't get it I'm sure. I don't see pulpits. I must not be as well churched as the rest of you. To my ears that's the same kind of back-door judgemental attitude that the closeminded leadership of the Way had. Same kind of general, broad brush, ill stated and uncorroborated back stabbing smear campaign the Way could run and perfected. "Some of you SUCK! Those with eyes to see GET it." Actually that is not an attitude unique to the Way, hardly, so certainly not limited to ex-Wafers. They were just good at it. Problems? This place on a bad day is a Care Bear Picnic. I don't see the particular kind of profiling on any of the threads I've been reading of late that meet your description RR with any degree of consistency. Sorry, I'm not agreeing with the "many" so I'll remain part of the "few" I guess. It's funny how you immediately qualified your statements with the phrase "Maybe we're all messed up though and this is just a lovely little corner of christendom with no problems " It's always Christendom's problem isn't it? Hardee hardee har har. The biggest pulpit here is the Ultra Critical Judgment Box where anyone can say anything as long as it trashes VPW specifically and the Way generally. As long as you do that you've got your Shields up, Cap'n, you can get away with murder and if you take exception to it you'll be branded and tattooed. Privately. And publicly.

Hmmm, well a double standard is clearly in play here. Ham makes fun of Linda Z's side of the stor-ee, a positive one on this thread. Because it involves VPW it gets ridiculed. Caveats and proviso's up the ying yang are noted and provided. Turn it around - if someone else posted a negative experience with VPW and that was ridiculed - how well would it play? How has it played out in the past? Pretty much the goal of ridiculing anone about anything here can be achieved if VPW's name is involved. I goof on things too but I try to steer clear of denigrating other's valued life's experience. I still don't see anyone relating to GS that fits your description, RunRunner. In fact, I don't think there's anyone like that posting regularly on this thread or any of the most recent ones I got caught up on today. C'est la vie?

I don't mean to give you a hard time RumRunner, I'm just confused and maybe one or two others are too, as Linda Z sez. I don't see anyone doing that. Here. Now.

I can't think of anyone specific on GS posting currently that fits that description RumRunner. Can you?

I know just how you feel.

No offense but this is why eggsackly that this is such a b.s. discussion - the endless reference to "good times" as if it was the era of the Jolly Rancher or something. Geez - I pity the foo' who holds on to a few memories (mammaries are fine though) of a few good times and that's all they've got. I picture the guy who's done his 30, gets the gold watch and through a beery stupor burps "yeah, oh yeah. Good times. Like that time the Coke Machine got jammed. Ohhh, boy. That was a doozy. Lemme tell you all about it......urppp) Anytime, anyone, anywhere, wants to get specific about what they "watched" and what they - say - they "saw" - I'm in for that discussion, in spades and for the long run pardinero. You just bring it on in and set a spell. "Carefully". What in the flying frick is that supposed to mean? I'm sorry if they don't remember it well, or as well as others. I think Obama's going to have a Fund for that in his Economic Recovery program. He'll fix it, not to worry.

I'll try again - The "other side of the story" is a general statement as to what GS attempts to do, and it's overall purpose, that's what the heck it is. Put two and two together and you'll have your answer. This has turned into a real circular twirl down the bowl. Have fun. My brain will turn to a thinner layer of peanut butter if I follow yet another discusson on this entire topic. It was great the first 20 times though, so for anyone doing it for the first go 'round, trust me - the stomped grapes get the wine started.

I already gave you my take on that Bolsh so I'll assume your question is rhetorical.