socks

I was talking to a friend recently and recounted an incident that involves what I consider an encounter with an Angel. He gave a friendly "hmpfff!" and politely disagreed. He said, naw, that was just a guy that was there, I probably didn't see him walk up. I described the circumstances and again he politely refuted that. He's not particularly Christian or anything else that I know of but he's a good man, as good goes. In our conversation it seemed like a place to start talking to him about salvation through Christ. "Grace", and what it might mean to people like us. I didn't argue with him. Many people will take that story and others like it and apply other beliefs and possibilities to them that include the possibility that the impossible can happen. Not him. He just didn't see it. No way. Nice story but no angels. Which was fine. He asked me more questions about it though and after a bit he just gave it some thought. And he finally just said well, yeah. Who knows? This particular story involved our whole family and that intrigued him after he gave it some thought. I told him yeah, my kids could tell you their perception of it and the part of it that is "impossible" is seen from their perspective as well as mine. Probably remembered differently - we're different people. But it all covers a lot of the same ground. I'm sure it didn't sink in much further than that but I'm also sure he's given it more thought. Whether he accepts that or not doesn't interest me but what does is that he would consider the possibility of a Kingdom of heaven and earth that is more than the earth and the sky we see, that is God's Kingdom of which we are a part. So we'll see. But I have had these things happen as recently as this year where I can't explain them and really don't try. They are what they are. People ask me why, why me, why then, what that? I don't know, I really don't, other than the personal impact it had on me and those around me. Why not others and other circumstances, it's not like there's not plenty of need around. I don't know and can't pretend to explain it other than it would seem to fit the description of someone, somethings that can appear and disappear in front of us, and come and go with very little effort and who help with a very focused effort and intensity - as has been described here in your stories. I do believe also that these kinds of things happen much more than we are clearly aware of them and that it reinforces the order and nature of our world, that the earth is "ours" but not entirely ours alone.

Sure. Grace in the bible, "charis" - a noun, feminine-kindness, favor, goodness extended, granting something, to someone or something's benefit. Consider that life grows under favorable conditions and flourishes when it gets what it needs. Life certainly responds to adversity, conflict, tension. Not always in bad ways. Eating the right food sustains and builds our bodies. Exercise makes them fluid, strong, resilient. Using something, be it a muscle or a brain cell requires effort, some ignition. I think it's reasonable to accept that for life to flourish there has to be kindness extended to it - if a child isn't fed it will die. An infant won't be able to get it's own food or it's own clothes. Some wouldn't call that "kindness" - but if you remove the mother and father's urge to care for the child and no one else does, it won't make it. We might call that "love" or whatever but the desire to care for someone else and give them what they need when they can only consume resources and not contribute resources back (for years) would fall into that category. It might feel natural and expected but without it we won't survive, right outta the gate. In order to grow up and become a "contributing member of society" we need a lot of charis to come our way, kindness, favor extended to us when we really don't have any way of earning it or deserving it. Jesus spoke about children in this way, and faith towards God. How to do something for a child is - well, a good thing to do. I see these kinds of realities present in those illustrations. And beyond that life of all kinds responds when the conditions are productive - and also responds to conditions that aren't and adapts - if it can. But if I throw a fish out of the river onto the bank and do it a 1000 times to a 1000 fish, none of them are going to get up and flip me off and walk away shouting "Cut it OUT MAN!!"....They're going to die. Adaptation isn't as easy as a Disney movie. It's can be a painful process, as we all know. Anyway - just pondering the nature of how things flow when they flow well. Someone wants to get over into my lane this morning, big truck - he was going to get screwed if he didn't get over, wasn't going to make the turn he needed to and would probably have had to go all the way around a good mile or so to get back to where he could get on the freeway - I slowed down, flashed my lights and he bopped right over - high sign! - yae! dude, yeah! and he was on his way. Grace. Or screw you haaahahaha!! and speed up and force him off the lane. No skin off my wheels. Good for him though. Just my thoughts....life isn't a lay up every time we try to do something, can't be. But it goes pretty nicely when we get a few of those mixed in with the bangs and bumps. Anyhoo.

Genetics + lifestyle + environment = quality of life. The human body has an expiration date, like it or not. Prevention and maintenance improves, maximizes. Intervention and change - Christianity is all about that. VPW died young, that's a fact. It's not a surprise though - in his 50's he inferred that he was basically healthy and robust. He excused the smoking like all smokers do - "I only smoke a few puffs off a cigarette and then put it out". Yeah, right. Sure, makes it okay. His diet - that he didn't eat a lot at any one time. Or anything really bad for you in quantity. Those things all sound GREAT when you're relatively young and even GREATER when you're healthy. Meanwhile the clock is ticking. Pile it in and on. Genetics + lifestyle + environment = quality of life.

That is really the essence of it, Twinky! Life has to be more than believing = receiving when believing is defined as "a verb" and "action". We do in fact live major portions of our lives without thinking or "believing" at all. If believing was always required we'd fail constantly. Believing was often defined in the Way's doctrine as "not thinking" about something, but simply accepting and trusting, an almost mindless or thoughtless acting out and upon one's own convictions....like the example of sitting on a chair and not thinking if the chair will hold you up, you just sit and the chair holds you up. Or standing up, you don't think about if your legs will hold up up if you believe they can, you just stand on them. Or going into your bank account to take money out that you know you have - you just withdraw it. But - This principle falls apart if I compare an actual non-doubting acceptance and a resulting action based on that acceptance where I have only complete trust driving my action - . Like backing up and sitting down on a chair - that isn't there....And falling on my butt. We've all done that kind of thing - stepped where there's no step thinking there was - we're not looking, we have NO DOUBT in our minds that the chair or step is there - in fact we don't really think about the chair or step at all we just sit or step - according to the principle we should receive the result of our believing action - and those kinds of examples are probably the easiest and best ways to understand a state of mind where there is NO DOUBT, ONLY BELIEVING - and yet when we act upon that believing we don't receive what we believed for (expected, trusted in) - ever. We fall on our butts - we don't sit on thin air, a chair doesn't materialize. I believe in the power of prayer, of God's power, I believe in miracles and the deliverance, God's grace and mercy, and that Jesus Christ is living and real to all those who come to Him in believing faith. There are times when people tell of the impossible happening - but it's never bang bang-thankyouma'am in the way that the Way's teaching of the principle would indicate. People pray, join together, God's promises of grace and mercy intervene. There's also the factor of "grace" that has an affect on life. I've pondered that "grace" is a far more intrinsic quality of the nature of life than I've limited it to in the past.

Thank you all very much - Kit for remembering! And everyone for the thoughts. Greatly appreaciated! And I will only be 50 once, so this is a special year. (did that sound believable, about the 50??? )

TWI's music - I'm probably the biggest cupcake you'll find although I can be somewhat uh blunt at times too. But I respect effort. It's always good to remember how much work it takes to do anything well and that what I see another do may be their best, their most and yet not be as accomplished as someone else. I don't have to like it but I can be gracious in my treatment of others. I need to remember that, more often. Humility defines greatness, IMO. I'm sure it's in the Bible too, if not I can probably fix something up that would sound about like it. But I see our own humility towards ourselves, each other and our Creator that allows us to be what we are, whatever that is. Humility allows us to make room for others and for more, knowing that we can always learn, grow, keep trying. If we're a-holes at heart, it will show sooner or later. We can be great and recognize that too. Kids have no problem celebrating their own wonderfulness. It takes age to make us ashamed of what God's made us and allows us to be. Maybe it's because we get so afraid of losing what we have that we guard it greedily, manage how we share it and are scared to really give it away for fear we'll never have more. So we puff it up and memorialize it. "LOOK AT THE GREAT ME". When I see the Wayfers and their dippidy doo dah music I groan, I really skarf up a hocknberry. I admit it, I do. But - it's not the music really, it's the manufactured greatness being displayed. It's so phoney it's funny. What's that - hate the sin, love the sinner? Hate the crapola muza, love the - well, love the sound of it stopping . And then knowing those people might be doing something worthwhile and fun. Later. When not doing that. The music noise.

That's him. Great guy, talented. You just have to find things that are meaningful to you now and enjoy them. It can be old music, new music, no music, something else. The key is to know yourself and how to avoid drilling into a funk that's self sustaining. :) Music can help do both. Some of us need different kinds of influences. Look at someone like James Taylor - I have no doubt he can create a pretty gray day around himself anytime of the day or night and stay there. He's talked about that. It's important to learn how to work with ourselves and use resources that help not hurt. There's a sweetness to sadness at times, like a whiff of yesterdays remembered. A little bit goes a long way. I think of it as the nature of existence, of how we experience life and time. We are only fulfilled in the continuous flow forward that's fed from the past. Like rivers, that always look the same each time we enjoy them but in fact each time never have the same water in them, ever. Music's a good one. Enjoy.

That was Mark, excullindra. "The Hagster". And David could definitely write and sing a tune, too. Ted-I love the man, the myth, the memory. Such a talented caring person. Crazy but talented. I have such a bad memory of how all this played out - if I'd been wise I'd have left when I saw how the Way Nash was screwing people, in the name of pride. Bob W, Harve, Gerald - the weasels took over there for awhile and it really showed me how weak VP actually was that he covered for so many people for so long, I suppose because they were covering for him in return. Bleccch. Worst ending I could have possibly imagined. Not that I was perfect, far from it, but geez. I see Bob W and his wife from time to time now and it doesn't bother me anymore, him screwing me over for no reason other than he could. People grow up, move on and do what they have to do. Some do better than others but everyone deserves the opportunity to change. I I''ve managed to do reasonably well with the life I've lived and I don't have too many people around the world that hate me. I can sleep on that. Plus as my wife noted to me recently - having the musical ability that these lesser sorts never did is a reward in itself. I was one of the guys they tried to put down and squash, but couldn't. Nobody gives a rats butt about how many burgers went through the line per hour in Way World. VP's dead, his legacy in disarray and their efforts nothing more than discussion points on a board. I sitll play guitar, still play music and have continued to do these last what - 51 years. It wasn't a "job" that started or ended with the Way, it's a lifelong pursuit. I played the s--t out of my guitar a week ago and have people pay me to work on theirs. If there's a winner - well, you tell me.

True about leadership, LZ. Course Jess's example never permeated the Corps leadership. He kept his own counsel. Craig, Lynn, Wren, those guys who coordinated the WC campuses were all motor mouths. It was peat and repeat with a lot of verbatim recitation and very little processing going on - result: shallow thinking, lack of depth. I never considered them "leaders" in the real sense of the word. Where Jess took time to think and respond and actually carry on conversations with us, those guys shot off quick answers, witty bs and - IMO of course but I'm not alone - simply did not give any impression of putting in the time or effort that what they were saying was any more than what they'd heard - and was not what they'd lived. They were simply too interested in "teaching" and activities to build their businesses. Jess wasn't like that but he didn't influence on a large scale by virtue of how he lived and worked. He was a one on one kind of guy.

A very interesting topic, indeed. There's a lot of religious thought that has the idea that Alabama3 invoke. I highly recommend their song "Power in the Blood", at high volume. They definitely reconstruct the vibe of those people just itching to get The End started. LCM was a deluded stooge. I have to give myself a few minutes to work up a positive image of him just to not go off on a rip on how lame he really was. However - and if the Almighty is reading this I'm on your side, Sir - there is a tone to the OT and some of the NT that if you flip the Creator off too many times you're gonna get it. I suppose there will need to be eyes and ears on the ground to handle it...you know, that thing. Did you take care of that thing He told you about? Yeah, that one. Good. I'm ready. If it's not the way I expect, doesn't matter, I adapt. It's not personal, it's business.

Yeh, that was always the way it seemed Linda. Long standing employees deserve some consideration, some shwag, all of that, sure, I get that and didn't have a problem with it, I mean none of these people were raking in barrels of money every month as you note. Shelby Co. rent, food and utilities were reasonably priced. But as you probably remember we idealized certan people, made them to be "pillars of the church", the core of the core of the corps of the whatever. Like George Jess - I really liked George Jess, "Mr. Jess", thought he was a very interesting and insightful person. But he was, technically and formally, the "Corps Coordinator" for years - and I don't think he ever said more than a 100 words at any one time and that was only when there was a formal event that called for him to address the Way at some level. Sage presence - sure. Deep thinker, I thought so. Yes, I'm sure he prayed long and hard for all of us and I appreciate that. But leader? Hmmmm....dunno. Not so sure that he really did much of that. It was more like a gesture to a very nice man to put him in that position, I thought. I joked once that maybe VP lost a bet and the winner was Jess, to always have a position as "Corps Coordinator". Least till Craigdale got the job. If he did more than I saw it would have been nice to know about it. He was the "sower" guy, the guy of legend, spreading the seed and planting. Ah, yes. With a hat. And a salary. And a job. And a rake. And a bag o' seed. So yeah, funnnnnnnny memory - back in the day when the 1st corps were running to "the stop sign" every morning - which was just under a mile, big whoopdy doo right? - and they were vaunted as being an uber - corps body, followed by the uber-er 2nd corps who could do it twice or something equally under impressive.........back then.......Del D used to use Randall as the example of a guy who was in "great shape" but wasn't "skinny as a rail" - which was great news for all of us who like Del could grow a gut pretty quick - I think his point was something about how being in good health didn't have that much to do with actually being in good health. You'd have to had known Randall - he was a great guy, and I mean that. 100 per cent good dude. But he was as in shape as a box of Snickers candy bars. But he was Del's Poster Man for being healthy - and he promoted that to the Corps with a straight face. Which was....well, it was probably better than Craig's Super Athlete of the Jock Boy syndrome - but he figured out soon enough that the higher you sat in the Way's echelon, the less number of times you had to keep running to that Stop Sign at 5:55 am - you just could THINK you're spirituality into existence by the sheer power of your own beLIEVing! :biglaugh:

Staff positions/jobs at the Way in the 60's were much different than they evolved into later - Families like the Randalls, the Allens, Owens - they weren't running down to the Lima Mall every night to witness to people and sign 'em up for PFAL. They lived on the farm there or near by and came in every morning. It was a job, with hours, weekdays and weekends. There was a larger commitment of time than a 40 hour work week yes but they had a a private life and a "work life". They worked there, lived there in most cases and came and went on the property 24/7. Late 60's and most of the 70's that was still true - the "Staff" didn't go to meetings every night, all weekend. As the size of the operation expanded people lived locally and had private and work lives. You didn't hire on at the Way unless you wanted to be involved in the effort more than a punch in and out 40 hour week. You wouldn't work there unless you actually wanted to do other things - help with classes, events, etc. However, you lived and worked and had your family with some distinctions between the two. That obviously changed over time, VPW intended to develop the mish mash of "Corps/Staff" employees he eventually assembled - which really got to be a commitment of all of one's time and resources, all the time. He had a way of separating out the long tenured staffers from the flow of those coming in and out in the Way Corps, if you went to work there in residence or after, fine if not you probably weren't going to have much contact with them. Frankly I think it was to keep the oldies happy, he liked them and didn't want to upset the apple cart, at least for a few years there, but it was a very small group of staffers that met that criteria. Only a certain kind of person is going to do that for their whole lives. Oldsters, like Joe and Linda C maintain a lifestyle that's blended but that revolves around ministry activities. That's what they want to do, that's their lifestyle. (or was - just as example - for decades). It's possible to be committed to goals and ideals without being in the same place, doing the same things with the same people, everyday of the week. Some people will have to do that, some of the time but for an entire lifetime? I believe it's healthier for everyone involved to have change and diversity. I'd assume that anyone who's gone there and been there for any length of time is someone who wants that lifestyle of total immersion. It's not for everyone, under the best of circumstances let alone those of the Way's.

"There is power in the blood".... a3

Yeh, I doubt I'd classify John's tendencies as "mental illness" or even that a mental illness is anything other than something that requires treatment. I was in a hospital the other day and notice as I walked through how many people that were there were walking slowly, seemed in pain, had difficulty standing and sitting and some who were out right grouchy and ill tempered. Go figure. It's a hospital. There's sick people there going for help, treatment, their families. A wonderful opportunity to celebrate any ability to do anything and to share it - open a door for someone, let someone else go first, ask if they need help, being courteous and as helpful and positive as I myself can be, if I can at all. I don't know what John's problem really is, mine is arm chair advice from afar. He just seems misguided and his efforts moderately confused. I suppose he does well at things that can be measured, like his SAT prep stuff. Counting the number of people who giggle when you speak or the number of healthy people who say they feel great afterwards isn't exactly a measurement of success. When the Gospel is preached it is a divine message that's being referenced - a lot can happen under any circumstance. I don't doubt there are "results" for people, however powerful or tepid. It sounds like so much of a scam he's running I can only hope there's some benefit from it. Avoid it? Yes, that's best advice to counterfeiting I could give.

That's the idea - don't remember when I started using that, but it was here or WayDoyle, one or the other. (See? WayDale could = WayDeal, or WayDoyle or WayDial or WeighDoll). My mind is an odd place.

Yes, I do johniam. If memory serves, Skip wrote that song. I don't recall that arrangement changing specifically, or how it might have changed, there was a riff yes. Skip's arrangement didn't change that much though as I recall - I remember when we got back together later in '84/Sound Out I tried to work an F to F/9 chord sequence into the turnaround on that tune - tried to 'sneak it in' and of course Skip heard it immediately and we discussed it and kept it to the major F to G. :) How I remember that, don't ask me. That's not meant as a criticism of Skip though at all - Skip wrote great music and was a great collaborator. Chord changes have purpose, changing them changes the sound which addresses the purpose differently when you do. An F to a G is different than resolving to an F/9 - just mention it here to illustrate arrangements. Skip was amazing at learning styles of music and adapting his craft to create music - really unique in his skills. The New Bremen studio lacked the equipment to capture sound without a certain amount of noise, low head room, so some of the reasons for the sound quality is wrapped in that. Mike W did miracles with the board and deck, and the mic'ing we used there. (He was really a talented guy if you knew him, you know). It had a great atmosphere - as I recall we did some of those songs for God's Team in that upstairs studio on the Stevenson board, so that probably had an effect. I don't recall the riff figure being changed though - we may have done something different on the road. Sometimes we did some thicker arrangements than others in performance. Nothing got 'sanitized' though, not in that era. It was recorded pretty much to attain a clean arrangement with the instrumentation we were using.

:) "My Funny Valentine" is a pop/jazz standard that lends itself to that analysis ways'. http://www.jazzstand...nyvalentine.htm (great site too). Marvin Hamlisch, who just died earlier this month, had a thing for that tune - his earliest accomplishments included playing it in any key - he was a bit of a prodigy. It's one of many American standards worth doing some study on. MFV starts in minor, goes to the relative major, and has interesting changes throughout. That's a very standard form, minor to major, or major to minor in the song structure. Years ago after "The Way We Were" was such a hit for Streisand, Hamlisch was quoted in Songwriter magazine as saying his goal with TWWW was to write My Funny Valentine - in a major key. So it was a bit of an exercise for him around certain parameters, plus he said the urge to not be the guy to write a bomb for Streisand. It was definitely a hit. (Still have that magazine, with his photo on the cover, it has stuff I used in lessons over the years but it's dated now). The Way We Were was in a major key and had that melancholic "minor" feel, some tasty melody, but doesn't hit the minor third in the opening lines to establish a characteristic "minor" feel - in fact it only flirts at the minor 7th briefly as a "blue note" for one note on the "memory" - a very subtle use of tone. The whole minor/major thing, the "dark" versus upbeat - it's basic music theory. And the earliest musics of the bible cultures relied heavily on linear monophonic music that used flatted and sharped notes a-go-go. Still do. Minor implies a more serious tone in Western music but does not in all world music by any means. There are similarities that run through different culture's musics though but they don't all mean the same thing to those outside of them. In fact when David and his gang celebrated in song and dance I doubt it sounded like "Father Along" or anything like it. But it reads like they definitely knew how to get down. "Off the Word" is an unwieldy euphemism that is difficult to use meaningfully anyway. Interesting topic though!

Here here, way's, I'm your huckleberry.... But only cuz I love ya man! I have to address this as it's something I've held forth on recently to some folks, in incredible scintillating dynamic. Wish you could have heard the original but alas this will have to do. In the interest of letting the Bible's message speak, such as it is and for better or worse, I hold to a basic premise - let each thing, each part, idea, verse, story, record, passage - stand "as is". With the benefit of investigation, study, illumination and effort yea. And ultimately to present itself as-is, as best I can understand it at the time. That time, and there will be more time to come one hopes but if not, at any given point I know what I know, don't what I don't and get on with it from there. Out of respect for Kit's guidance here I won't address the specific issue you note here but - it is a good example of the method I'm describing. I wouldn't take a single thing that I read about "angels" - they're "spirit" - And then take another thing that I read, like they're encounters with humans in the Bible, or the possibility of being able to encounter them in our lives and "see them" and interact with them - And deduce there's a conflict, that these two pieces of information don't "add up" or make sense when compared to each other. Rather - I would deduce that I now know - Two things about "angels", and that those two things comprise a partial but more complete impression of "angels". Considering that I didn't know anything about angels - at all - before I read about them in the Bible which is the source material you are addressing here. In much the same way that someone might say it's 7:00 pm. And someone else might say it's 10:00 pm. And someone else might say they're an hour late. And someone else they overslept and got up REALLY late. And someone else that they feel sleepy. And all of that as pieces of information to answer the question "what time is it?" Yes, anyone really DOES know what time it is, to answer Chicago's question. We just have to be willing to look at our watches and respond. For anyone who hasn't met an angle though and would like to, I'm available. I'm a real right angle, no fooling!

Poor John as he's called has been through so many doctrinal shifts and shafts I would wonder how anyone who's followed him on even a couple of his digressions can do anything but pray for him at this point. He and his gaggle of followers have promoted such bizarre doctrinal positions that it would seem he and they should be very capable at recognizing the smell of counterfeits - they seem to be champs at finding them and trying them out. And still it amazes me that he tries to get away with his invocation of the past associations with Dr. Weirwille, as if VP would today be excited and pleased as punch over what he's doing. He knows - he absolutely knows - that VP would be hacking up paste knowing the JAL has changed his initial doctrinal platform of PFAL. The drill was - change one word, your whole bible falls to pieces. PFAL was the basic primer and nothing - not a word of it - was ever to be changed as far as VP went. JAL knows that. He knows that he can today invoke the name of VPW for those who miss VPW, never knew him or only know what they've heard, and get away with it. Except for those of us who know otherwise. I do believe some things differently than were held forth in PFAL. Not everything but some things, yes. I won't lie about what that means though. Lie is a harsh accusation - but ol' JAL has earned it. He knows better. God only knows how he talked himself into this self promoting machine he is today - well, it is obvious in some ways but yikes. It's a trip, man.

Oh! Yea, the Way InterNASHional. Just an abbreviation I use.

Interesting side note - at some point earlier in the Way, after the earth began cooling but before animals developed wings, the term "ex officio" was used in the language describing twigs being self governing, financing and propogatin'. The cooperation was described in the relationship between each of the next "ex officio:" levels. I'm sure I wasn't the only one to ask what that meant. I recall it referred to those levels - twig leaders, branch leaders, limb leaders, bark leaders, forest leaders etc. and their non-employee status. In other words the Way was saying that the person designated at that next "level" up or down (or over, if you prefer) was a person who held certain rights and responsibilities without having been actually or formally hired, elected or appointed to that position. I understood their position on this as explained by JT and VP to be that it was to recognize the functionality of the position without potentially binding the Way Internationale Carnivale Inc. to the actions and decisions of that individual who was the ex o fish io. Person. Dude. Woman. In many ways that makes sense and could be a correct way to describe the relationship so as not to make the Way Nash legally responsible for everything a person in that position might do. However - And when we start talking legal ese that's like unloading a bag of tics on a pig - I think any thoughtful person - like someone actually interested in hosting an informal home, family style fellowship - will realize that the entire relationship with the supporting church, ministry or other entities they're involved with - it's completely by choice, non-obligatory and non binding by or to anyone other than the person hosting the fellowship and those who participate. Thus - IMO - the position the Way developed of the "twig coordinator" who was a Way Corps person or "WOW" or someone otherwise representing different and additional non-ex-officio responsibilities to the Way - and "official" responsibilities to the Way - was a hybrid position that was essentially untenable. You can't have an official position holding ex officio responsibilities and completely segregate the accountability and responsibilities of the parent/host/supporting levels. Or at least there's a bundle of tics that would bite that way, IMO. The cooperative effort would have to be without a lot of built in standards, regulations, requirements, rules, etc. etc. - or else that ex officio person/status would be in fact performing duties that were of an official nature, binding between them and the host organization, company, ministry, church, gaggle. Which could actually be the case for a true "ex officio" position. However it would be very difficult to disconnect the two from each other but still impose specific burdens of requirements on that person. Like with the $$$ - all of that. The Way's structure didn't really support a self-govern/finance/propogate unit, staffed by an ex officio position and a person who would be required to YES, HAVE accountability to collect money, donations, fees, registrations, etc. for the host company while NOT having any accountability to the host co. for their actions if either part was proven illegal, damaging, etc. Not sure if I'm expressing this clearly but - For a group that had the vibe of being nothing more than a family style hang at people's homes - They completely went the other direction, formalizing a business relationship - That they didn't recognize officially - since if and when they did, they'd be liable up the yung yung. As with LCM - I'm sure if the right legal entities had smelled his blood in the air that year a case could have been made for the exposure to risk being damaging at all levels of the Way Treigh. As time went on they may have dropped all of it out of sheer ego - why bother? But it was always a system built on trust and honor - anything else would be rife with the potentials for uh, abuse. Humans being what we are, there's no "their mileage may vary" - it will only succeed until it fails and it will fail, eventually. Case closed.

Treated like children? Oh, stop being a baby!

exchaskell, "secular" music - defining secular as being worldly, non-religious, something that is not specifically from or for spiritual concerns - yeah, I've never really found a use for the term, although I admit that the designation does have a purpose. music isn't secular / non-secular in it's basic intrinsic values of tone and rhythm. some would say just the opposite on both sides of the issue, that music is by nature a higher form of communication, expression and revelation. a musician doesn't have a spiritual set of scales versus a secular set. in the same way, a writer doesn't have a spiritual pen and a secular pen they use. but there are songs about cars and songs about God and songs about love and songs about boo-ya! or whatever so.... I suppose there's a position that could refute that but what is plain and obvious about music lends itself to the simplest definition intent, purpose, content - use, is what defines it. so yeah, there's value in having the genre to categorize i guess, but alphabetical and numeric ordering works too. at any rate it's always struck me as an odd term. it may be because music has a deep(er) effect or meaning to some than others, and so doesn't rely on specific lyric content to have specific meaning. music is personal for many people. not all but for many.

I first saw that song in the old Way Song book, the "yellow" one, first copy I had. I sat and read the lyrics one night, before I'd heard the original. It seemed such an inspired song, sent me to another place, I worked out an arrangement of my own for it, different melody to the words. The song ends with these lyrics: There the sun is always shining There no tear will dim my eye At the ending of the rainbow Where the mountains touch the sky. Many things about tomorrow I don't seem to understand. But I know who holds tomorrow And I know who holds my hand.