socks

alfa, you remember that one?! Thanks, I had a cassette copy of our set that year and loaned it to out, have to see if I can get it back. Thanks for remembering it, man! --------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Ha! I have those lyrics around somewhere, have to see what we did with it. Perhaps some kind of plumbing reference was used. :)--> Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

A La, one of the tunes we used to do in JN back in our first year was Denver's "Poems, Prayer's and Promises". I sang it, it was a nice tune. Back when we went out WOW in '72/73, "Country Roads" was getting played everywhere it seemed. When I hear that tune I can still recall the place we had at the time and hearing it. Funny. ------------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

White Album, such good memories, thanks for posting that A la. Dance With Me is just like that for me, just pops out and comes right back! Really love that tune. Love Dear Prudence, Julia, such a soft brooding song, like a dream. "I Will", Blackbird. Cry Baby Cry. I love the way that song sort of wheezes along, like an old organ. Ob-La-Di, such a nice tune, Peruser I agree! That's so funny you mention remembering that, I can still picture my daughter sort of skating across the kitchen floor one day I had that album on couple years ago, dancing along. Fun stuff. "Happiness is a warm gun, momma" (bang bang shoooot shoot!) :D--> Quack! ------------------ Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

the 70's. One of my favorite bands was Orleans. John Hall and Lance Hoppen were the guitarists doing nice harmony stuff. John Hall had worked with Seals and Crofts, Bonnie Raitt, lots of people and then bam! Orleans. He wrote a lot of their songs with his then wife Johanna. Here's the lyrics to a song they charted with from their September 73 release, Orleans ll. An all time socks family favorite and an open invitation... Dance With Me Dance with me, I want to be your partner. Can't you see the music is just starting? Night is falling, and I am falling. Dance with me. Fantasy could never be so giving. I feel free, I hope that you are willing. Pick your feet up, and kick your feet up. Dance with me. Let it lift you off the ground. Starry eyes, and love is all around us. I can take you if you want to go. Dance with me, I want to be your partner. Can't you see the music is just starting? Night is falling, and I am falling. Dance with me.

Yeah, Hope. Reagan and that Born in the USA thing...Reagan would have been embarrassed I'm sure, if he could have remembered what he said about it later.... This all reeks of the "genuine suspicion" thing that came not too much later, doesn't it? In Noebel's book, the only way a person for sure isn't a communist is if they've got it stamped on their forehead "Me No Commie" and they've got their Good Citizen card stamped. If a person looks to any kind of alternative solution, approach or philosophy that isn't straight up the flag pole saluting to God and country and apple pie, then they're SUSPECT! I'm sure some of the people he comments on appreciated the publicity. "Finally, someone sees we're here!" And again, Pete Seeger. Everyone knows banjos are dangerous tools of the takeover. :)--> :D--> Perhaps the greatest conspiracy song of all time... Louie Louie! Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Hey Buck! I don't know whether Dylan's conversion was a scam. If it was, what did he gain? He lost some fans who figured uh oh. I don't think so, personally. He has had a way of jumping around over the years from one thing to another. I read some reviews of concerts too, where he was preachin' from the stage. There was a church here in California he was attending at one time, can't remember the name. On face value I'd say he was legit, but face value is a hard thing to determine with Dylan as you say. People grow and change, and he's entitled. Although (IMO) he's very talented, he was also sort of a hack the way he glommed on to the folk scene and invented himself in to a figure of the times, but hey. He saw a hole and he filled it. If he hadn't had something enduring to offer, he'd be next to the Easybeats in the music bins. :)--> That tune "Man Gave Names" is a cool song! For me, it was a nice surprise, an indication of Dylan's song writing chops. That rhyme thing he uses gives it an internal rhythm that makes you go, "yeah, well sure. That animal's a Bear!" It's slick. Who the H ever came up with a song like that before, y'know? :)--> Then after he's got ya ready to fill in every name because of the rhyme scheme, he tosses in the word "lake" and you know what's coming...and it's so cool because it made me think, Damm! I can guess the name, but ol' Adam and Eve never saw him coming... ;)--> "Serve Somebody" was another one. Classic statement, "it may be the devil or it may be the Lord, but you're gonna have to serve somebody". He doesn't say what that means, or how you'll do that or say you're going to heaven or hell for doing either one . He limits the song to one idea and he just works away at it. On one level a person can think, yeah, no matter who you are you're still answerable for your actions. On another, there's a spiritual ring to it. It's a cool tune. Some songs take an idea and try to express every single angle of it..."God saved me, I'm blessed, angels rejoice, the sadness is gone, His mercy made me whole", etc. and you get the whole range of what's on the person's heart all at once. One thing Dylan does very well is take one thing, one idea or sentence and then explores it, makes a big diamond out of a little piece of coal. He's good. ----------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!..... [This message was edited by socks on January 06, 2003 at 14:42.] [This message was edited by socks on January 06, 2003 at 14:54.]

hey a la, no prob. :)--> Yeah, Taylor's a commie. He and John Hall did that whole anti-nuclear thing years ago and boy, if being against nuclear power plants don't make ya commie, what does??? :D--> Just kidding. I like electricity, too. Voltage rocks!!! The rush to judgment without any real substantive information is typical of Way-Borg "mentality", and I use that word loosely. If Taylor's a commie, pass the armbands. I love that song Home by Another Way. Nice tune. I don't exactly look to entertainers for factual information (rather the way it's processed and expressed), but J.T.'s thoughtful approach to his music and wide range of observation makes me interested in what he would think as well as why he would think that way. No, I've never heard anything in his music close to him suggesting anything more radical than how difficult it can be at times to sort through what goes on in this life. I've seen him a few times and it's like watching your brother play, the one who's been gone away for a long time and now's come home with stories to tell and gifts to give and you can't wait to just sit down and hear all about it because now the family's all together again and we can celebrate our love together. His is a very unique voice. He brings calm to an audience by simply being who he is. It's very interesting. He's a keeper. :)--> Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!..... [This message was edited by socks on January 06, 2003 at 14:46.]

Okay, kiddo here's the email I sent ya, with an addition or two...Hope heard the guy so that's good input! Okay, A la. Found the book. It's a first edition, copyright 1974, published by American Christian College Publications so I guess that's when it came out, although I could swear I read it earlier than that. Well, there goes the neighborhood, the brain cell said to the ear drum! Author: Dr. David A. Noebel. Got a "$2.00" price on the cover. Whoo hoo! There's actually quite a bit of information in it, he mentions everyone from Lou Adler to Frank Zappa. A lot of it deals with what he says are/were Communist owned and operated music companies. You'd have to read it to see what you think if he's correct in stating that these people were deliberately making music to condition the youth of the world for a communist takeover. I've heard some of the childrens music he talks about and I dunno, it's hard for me to make the connection he makes to them being subversive. Still, he quotes some interesting analysis of the way that the music is constructed. I'm always interested in all-things-musical, so although I don't agree with it, I still find it interesting. I'd call it a very hard core conservative Christian backed book, presented in a factual manner. One of his main premises was that Communist efforts were incorporating the arts and music specifically to infiltrate and influence youth. It's a "conspiracy" book, if we wanted to call it that...Evil forces behind the scenes manipulating music to break down and destroy emotioanl, intellectual and moral fiber, world domination, demonic planning, that kind of stuff. I will say this, the guy had a lot of background information in the appendixes, footnotes, and bibliography. It wasn't just a rant on the evils of 'that dammed rock music'. There's a lot of work represented in it. Some of it hasn't stood up, though. His pieces on Bob Dylan fr'instance, make Dylan sound like the Commie Pied Piper of the folk rock age, but it's well known that Dylan was never fully embraced by the hard core folkie/political community because he wouldn't take a full unqualified stand on every cause that came up. He was a kid who played in rock bands and liked songwriting and is really more a product of the times than a political black hat. Today he states his primary focus has always been on the art of songwriting. He wrote what he heard, what he thought would be cool and what he thought would get him laid. ;)--> His subject matter has varied widely over the years and he deliberately dropped the folk tag for rock to avoid being trapped in a niche he didn't want. At the time of this book though, he probably looked like Lenin incarnated to Noebel. Noebel does this with other people too. Likewise with the Beatles, I think. The book doesn't really answer the question of who influenced them but rather damns them as filthy perpetrators of evil. Here again he missed a very important fact and this is that their producer George Martin was responsible for a great deal of the innovative sounds they produced. Basically they were songwriters and performers, very good songwriters when I look a the scope of their catalogue. Everyone who played with them in later years has commented on how knowledable they were and proficient on their instruments. The Beatles have all credited Martin as the one who made their ideas reality. He brought a whole range of ideas and techniques to them that none of them knew anything about. A lot of their stuff would be pretty half baked, to be honest, had he not influenced and crafted their sound. If I listen to some of the early work they produced themselves after the Beatles disbanded it's easy to see that they weren't experts at engineering or production and a great deal of their group sounds was based on good engineering in the studio and a great deal of time consuming work in mixing and editing. The fact he missed George Martin's influence is a major error. Same with Brian Epstein. He brought the unique dress to their act, the way they stood, all of that. Were Martin and Epstein Commie driven drug addicts? Hardly. Sooooo I'm not sure what I think of the book. At the time, it seemed a little obvious, as if the only people gasping at what he wrote about all the drug references were those who didn't follow music. Some of his conclusions are arguable, some incomplete, some are kind of whacky, others obvious like Pete Seeger's history. As far as the Beatles go, he also missed the fact that MONEY was the prime motivator behind their success and Commies don't like that capitalistic crap. Not a one of them gave it all away for the "People's Cause". The Beatles were fairly straightforward musicians and songwriters and their craft has held up nicely on a lot of their material. They're management and label marketed them like hot dogs. When they tried their ideas on their own with the Apple label, it pretty much proved to be an open spigot for any hair brained idea that walked in the door and they had to cut it way back before they spent all their money. So, I dunno. If you want it, I'll send it to you. Lemme know. love ya, /jr Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!..... [This message was edited by socks on January 06, 2003 at 15:11.]

Man, I don't know where to put this, so here goes. There's been a lot of discussion about 1942, the snowstorm, and the promise to VP that if he'd teach it, God would teach the Word to him like it hadn't been known since long time gone. That's actually kind of neat taken on just face value...A message that has been lost and a requirement that to have it shown to you will be you have to share it with others. Can anyone document where and when God told VP to put it in to a class and sell it for money? -------------------

A la, I've got that book out in the garage and I'm going to get it out tomorrow and peruse it, just for you. :)--> I can't even remember why it got circulated, it was around 70, 71 or so though if I remember right. It would poke it's head up from time to time. I'll have to look at it. ---------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

:)--> Cool! Thanks! We got something goin' here. I'm going to work on that, and if there's anymore ideas, lay 'em on us! Happy New Year! Hope everyone has a happy and safe holiday. -------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Hey peop's, back again. Look at the kids here! Buck, greets! The masterherbalist has stories to tell! We should hear more of what you've done, sounds like a great time was had by all! Buck, Hope DOES have a great way with words. And Living Waters was a great band. Gary could sing his butt off and played nice guitar too. There's more to that story that can be told I'm sure. ;)--> Okay, here's an idea, a favor to request, and I know New Years is fast approaching, so no hurry but if anyone has an idea to throw in, I'm all e-ars. I have 3 lines to a song I wrote several years ago, the last 3 and that's it. They're almost like the tag ending of a verse of chorus. The title is "The Best Thing I've Done", as least for now. They go like this, (with little chord symbols on top if they lay out right): D-----------------------G--------Em If all our tomorrows were never to come, -------A----------------------D--------G I'd be happy with all that I've done. - -------D---------A---------------D Loving you is the best thing I've done. --------- That's all I've got. It's a waltz, in 3/4, with a light love song kind of feel. Any ideas on what should come before that? CK? Shoot me an e-mail at soques@hotmail.com or post 'em, whatever works, if anyone has an idea. Nothing's too short. Maybe we'll get something here. Thanks! :)--> ------------------ Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!..... [This message was edited by socks on December 31, 2002 at 2:38.] [This message was edited by socks on December 31, 2002 at 2:39.] [This message was edited by socks on December 31, 2002 at 2:41.]

Mike, I feel compelled to make an observation that you might not agree with but might be worth considering, even though I'm committed to letting you say your piece and wind this out. I'm not sure how much contact you have with actual, living former PFAL grads, so bear with me for a sec. "Mastering" PFAL isn't an impossible task nor is it one that has never been accomplished. Over the years it's taken on a somewhat mystical and vague "spiritual plateau" kind of aura. VP's instructions notwithstanding, any thinking person needs to really look at that honestly and clearly before embarking on a journey to accomplish it if that's what they want to do. (VP states in your last lost teaching that is what people should do. I personally think that his perspective on how and what people were doing with his teaching was in reality somewhat clouded his final years, warped slightly by his perceptions that the ministry he had invested his life in had abandoned the precepts of what he felt important. He wasn't entirely in touch with the ministry as a whole, by any means, and had many unresolved issues with his own top leadership. That's not a criticism on face value, just a very general way of saying that VP was fighting a battle that was very much his own as well as his ministry's...Now, that's all debatable, but I'm not entering that to argue it, just to site that's my background opinion. To you this teaching represents some kind of clarity, but to me it's much like what he said over and over again over the years.) PFAL, the series of 3 classes including Intermediate and Advanced, (although VP himself said oftentimes that everything was included in the Foundational PFAL) was a class on "Keys". He said he didn't intend to teach the bible from Genesis to Revelation, rather to teach the keys and principles that would open the bible to the student and allow them to learn and walk themselves. As far as the CONTENT of PFAL, it's knowable. It seems huge the first time through, but anyone who made a reasonable effort soon realized that it was 12 sessions, each about 3 hours long, and with a few hours a month even at the minimum, it was learnable and knowable. The basic ideas, concepts and techniques aren't terribly difficult to learn. I think some of the ideas and conclusions don't add up quite the way he presented them, but that's another topic. Overall, he covered a lot of bible and got me reading it. "Mastering" has different definitions, depending on the content. If learning the books of the bible is part of mastering it, then once memorized, you're done. Speaking in tongues, the same. Once you learn what it is and manifest, mastering it is to simply continue doing it. "Mastery" of S.I.T. was and is as easy to achieve as any of the things of God. It's not a grunt and groan "look what I did" kind of thing. So please consider this: the difference between learning and mastering. We see through a glass darkly and will NEVER "master" walking with God because 1) we won't know as we are known till we are gathered or raised with Christ, and 2) life isn't a mastery of anything, it's an ongoing process of growth and learning. Today we know as much as we can, tomorrow, the same and hopefully a little more. He who becomes the "master" in his mind, is the slave of his own knowledge because he's stopped learning. I'm fully aware that there are people "out there" who feel like you and are struggling with their own inner battles over "what happend and what went wrong". I can see how each must take their own course, and each will do that. Just consider this - to many, the understanding of PFAL as a thing to master and maintain was an early part of the growth curve. Ultimately, one of the primary initiatives presented by VP was to take what he offered, learn it, and take it even further-do something with it, apply it somehow. Unfortunately, he didn't allow for the fact that such a "mastery" might include drastic change. But then, he was just a man like you and I. I'm not trying to be egotistical, just offering this perspective. Give it a whirl. ---------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Any Way Weinies secretly reading and reporting what is on this thread can glom on to this bit of Way Prod trivia: we're all doing fine! Every former participant that I'm aware of or have heard news of or spoken to in the last year hasn't dropped off the vine of life and shrivelled up in to some unbelieving piece of un-Way-blessed grease. Far from it me lads and lassies...to quote Nine Inch Nails: Bow down before the one you serve You're going to get what you deserve. Way spies get their rewards from their Way masters while they lick their hands like dogs and grovel for recognition. They can dumpster-dive all they want for their Kibbles N Bits, I had steak for dinner. Now all you Way Gee-Bee's go eat your millet and pray there isn't another reduction in staff salaries. We'll be enjoying CHRISTMAS in a couple days and as our families gather around to celebrate life together I'll say a silent prayer for you that God hasn't given up on your sorry souls and will send you a sign that will open your eyes, clear your ears and bring light and joy to your lives and throw open the doors of your heart to the love that's everywhere around you! Even as you creep in darkness His light knows no fear. Merry Christmas to all Way GB Sp-eyes from CK's Music Thread! --------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

A al, here we are! Now I don't want to give the impression me and Boz were trading licks and knocking back shots at his place. After he left the Steve Miller Band he stayed in the San Francisco Bay Area and put together a band, a pretty large group with horns, etc. They played around quite a bit and we opened on some nights in the same places. It was cool to work the same little clubs, as I'd been enjoying his stuff since the first SM album, "Baby's Calling Me Home", etc from Children of the Future. He was a cool guy, never said much and always had anywhere from one to two knock-out babes on his arm when he came in. He was real laid back. Had real long hair for awhile then cut it. I watched him like a hawk. Played a big Gibson guitar. It was a great time, with some many clubs around northern Califorina and so many bands. He went on to a big pop career of course, just as Steve Miller did. Ted, one of the things I remember most about the early JN days was the travel we did. When I tell people today I've been in every major city of every state at least once, it sounds crazy, but seems we criss crossed the ol' USA a few times. Transportation developed like everything else did. At first we used a station wagon and a VW bus, our own cars and whatever we could stash in them. Then the Way got some fleet vans and we got to use the "green and the blue" vans, and a little trailer was added to carry the equipment. We loaded and unloaded like busy bees. Struck every room we played in that I can remember. Some great fellowship times with people after the shows at midnight, shlepping stuff out to the "vans". The Way had some great people, I'll say that. Everywhere, just wonderful folks that loved God. Early itineraries were up to 2-3 weeks. I remember one that was 4 weeks. The drill was always the same, drive all night to get to where we were going by trading off drivers, meet the folks where we were playing, in the evening set up, play, hang out afterwards, strike the room, pack it up and then hit the road for the next place. We learned to sleep sitting up those first couple years. Once the van I was in had the heater go down and it was in the middle of the winter, snowing and we were hauling a$$ to make it to some city. We had another 4th corps guy along, and Janet was with us on that one. I can still remember him sitting up in the back seat in the middle of the night, frost coming out of his mouth and saying "Man, it's cold! What're you guys doing!?" We were going to the gig, man! Can't let a little thing like 10 degree cold stop us! We just wore more clothes. We did some pretty outrageous stuff those years, sometimes straggling in an hour before the show after we'd driven 12 hours in snow to get there but we always got there. No days off on the road, that came later. The first few years the "day off" was the day we drove to the next city. Later, when the motor coach was bought and we expanded JN and JB came onboard, it was like heaven, if sleeping in a clothes drier is heaven. I know everybody thought that coach was plush and it was nice, but travelling for 2-3 weeks with a foot between you and everyone else can be tough. The sleeping bunks were about 6 foot one, fine for me, just a tad short for Ken. We were stacked 3 to a side. Seats up front, tables. We had to learn to be extremely patient with each other and there's no guage for the patience the women had travelling that way. We had a lot of great times. Never slept more than a half hour straight through in that coach, just about time you'd drift off we'd hit a bump. That was hard for me after a year or so, but we had great times. Then you'd wake up and jump down to get dressed with 5 of your best friends every morning. Line up for the little bathroom and pray we weren't on a bumpy stretch of road. Coffee. More coffee. Pray, read the bible. Laugh. Man, we laughed a lot those years. You did a good job, Ted. -------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Gee, it's nice to be appreciated, CK! Well, I'm back yet again, and I think what I was trying to say in that puff of post above was that I think Mr. Ted had the right idea in how to set up Way Prod so it would be on it's own rather than a department of the Way. Going back in my head to those early times, I think we were all heading towards developing things and it would have worked, could have worked nicely with Ted and the gang at the Way Nash doing their thing and the people in other locations doing theirs and just working together. Distinctly independent, but in cooperation with one another. Maybe do things together sometimes, mix it up, whatever. I'd like to hear the details of what Ted's idea was, and I'd say I bet it would have really allowed everyone to develop on their own with their own ideas and "voices". One thing you're going to get when people are passionate about their work is ego. Yup, the nasty "E" word, ego. You want that, in fact you need that kind of personal buy in and ownership to "create" something. There has to be conviction and drive to see your ideas work or they'll never get done. Hassling and haggling over them isn't a bad thing IMO, it's the way you work things out. It simply has to be tempered with an equal passion for a common goal that is shared by everyone involved. Well, it's easier to see in hindsight anyway. Way Prod has suffered in some it's periods because the people trying to wave the wand over it don't know what they're doing. When you get people saying things like "I don't know music but I know it's just not right spiritually", you're in trouble. That's a whole nother kind of ego, and it's more dangerous than some guy thinking he just reinvented how to play an "E" chord, because it puts GOD into the whole thing and we all know there's no arguing when it's GOD telling someone how to do something. Good Lord, imagine what you'd get if someone tried to apply that approach to, uh dance or sumpin'... --------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Looks like some strange network path... Okay, Ted's on it I see and I'm puddling along. I'll jump back to a step to the New Knoxville meeting. I was there with Cookin' Mama, from the west coast. We'd been out and about, we came in for that "Rock of Ages" concert night at the winter youth advance in ... 1971? think it was and that was our first exposure to the Way Nash. Then in the summer we did a little travel around out of California, visited Wichita, KS and played with Dove it seems like, did a club gig or two with a local band "Crank". Went to Indianapolis, IN with Lynn and played there a few nights and Good Seed with Rick Panyard were working, then hit the Way that summer for the Rock of Ages. That ran in to the NK meeting. Afterwards we headed for New York, and played around with PDSTRO, up in Rye, and at Alley Pond Park (sp?) for a great gig I still remember where we did sets and some stuff together with Pressed Down including a kick a$$ version of "Christ is Coming" with Ralph on Hammond organ. Great time in NY, great people, Donald and Polly Lewis put my wife and I up for a couple weeks while we got our VW camper bus fixed, which had blown out an engine going in over the Throgs Neck Bridge. C-Mama wasn't really a "ministry" band, although we were doing our own brand of Christian music and worked with Jim Doop who we'd all met prior to PFAL. Loud, and very aggressive sound. We were grads by then of course, but initially we were shooting for a commercial career. It got mixed up as time went on. We broke up at the same time the Way West was taken over by the Way Nash, and I started working with Steve Abella of Alameda, CA who I'd played with in other bands previous to the Way years. We worked up another band called "Sonrise" with Bruce Britton, Pete Miller, Mike Hughes and Mike Richie, all Californians. We went out to play at the Rock of Ages 72, Ted may remember Bruce and I met with him to talk about working with Way Prod, we had ideas and a couple sets of music. We were leaning towards a mix of secular and Christian stuff, with an idea to do mixed media, maybe theater and music together. Steve, Pete and Mike were black belt song writers and had stuff we hadn't worked up yet that was great. We hoped to work clubs and support ourselves and try a travelling caravan with the Way Nash, which had been talked about for a couple years. That didn't come together with Ted, so we headed back west. I went out WOW that year, and ended up in the Way Corps. That's the short abbreviated timeline for me up to the 4th Corps, leaves out a lot, but there's a lot better left unsaid maybe for the time being. Those days were much different than the later years, for better or worse. We fell out with VP that summer in 71 when we hashed through our book of lyrics. We weren't writing verbatim scripture in to every song, and there was a disagreement over how to say certain things. A big disagreement, to be honest. He wanted to change them, we wanted to leave them as they were. One idea was to leave them as they lay and write other stuff that would be along the lines of what he wanted. It didn't work out at all at that time. One thing I think about those early years that's true of all the Way Prod stuff that has stood up at all over the years is that what was written, sung and played came from the hearts and souls of the people themselves. It wasn't scripted or directed, it said what we felt and while that wasn't always crystal clear, looking back it's funny - a lot of people got the message anyway. Cookin' Mama would get 100's of people coming to our concerts when we'd throw them and a lot of them heard the message of Jesus Christ and believed. A lot of others just got stoned and danced the night away. Everybody had fun. We played clubs, often as the 2nd or 3rd billed band, the "underdog" opener spot, and our attitude regardless of who we played with was "take no prisoners". We'd open the night and leave people drained, sweaty and happy and leave it up to the headliner to figure out how to follow us. We didn't always succeed, but we always tried. No matter what, people knew we MEANT it when we played. We held our own with some interesting acts - John Lee Hooker, Robben Ford, Harvey Mandell, Boz Scaggs, the old Loading Zone with Linda Tillery, Tower of Power. We were young, but we were ready to deal. All the stuff I loved of Way Prod's music was like that in one way or another. Sonrise was no different when it came later, most of the bands and singers of that time all had that quality I think. Wandered off there a bit, have to get back to the thread here next time... ------------------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

That's a great piece about the conscience. "Rounding off the corners" so to speak. Craig has a habit of digging around in the bible for "new light" to defend his actions and set his course. It's like a dog who can't figure out where that bone of his is so he tears up the flower garden and destroys it looking for it. In the end all that dog gets is a dirty face and a lot of dead flowers. All of this makes me think: at what point does a Christian ministry realize it needs to teach it's leadership how to lie and "when it's okay" to do it? Moses - A mom hides her baby from those who will murder it, and VOILA! We got a new piece o' light here. Oooooh, heavy! We never saw that before! I think that's the expected response they want, right? The Way has become a ministry of Lists and Techiniques. Everything in the bible is taken out of it's context and made to fit in to some list to do this, another list for victorious that. It's like a freakin' self help group but without the help. As long as they get up in the morning and start ticking off something on a list of "keys for the effectual walk of power", they know they're on track, in fellowship, aligned, harmonized and on point. Their goal seems to be "Successful Living Through Micro-Management of Every Non-Essential Detail in Life". Meanwhile the important things slip away. If it didn't hurt people, it would be funny. They can lie all the want to. That sound they hear is the ice under their feet slowly cracking. ------------------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

theend, that section was covered years ago by vp in the advanced class. craig's interpretation is dramatically different than his mentor's. in the a.c. it was taught as sarcasm. the king knew dam well that he never got any good news from the prophet, so when he asks the question, the answer is with the tone of "oh suuuure! absolutely, king. you'll win hands down. go now, have no fear! heh heh...you know i'm always behind you!" picture sadaam hussein asking cole what he thinks of his chances against a u.s. military action -"you'll do well! you've got a greeeeat army!" politics aside, craig's assertion that a person speaking on god's behalf and for his people would lie just says what low esteem he holds god in and that his conscience is seared like an over cooked strip of bacon. his morals and ethics speaks for themselves. how anyone can trust these people around their wives, children, family and money, let alone ministry, is beyond me. birds of a feather flock together i guess. --------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!..... [This message was edited by socks on December 15, 2002 at 23:18.] [This message was edited by socks on December 15, 2002 at 23:22.]

Hay'yall. Been offline for a day or two. Really enjoy reading up on the latest on this thread! CK, we preached "one God or the other" for years in the Way when it came to success. In the long run, it's a slippery slope trying to decide on the surface who's really successful and who isn't. (Look at the Way - a few short years ago they thought they were at the top of their game and today, they're like an album clipped for the bargain bin, with all other one hit wonders. Even now they no doubt yearn for a "comeback" release and subsequent world tour!) The inherent problem with that kind of evaluation is setting the bar for success for being "at the top" of a field, etc. How do you do that? Oftentimes it's the flavor of the month or the year that seems like it's a "success". Good Lord, I've heard everyone from Huey Lewis to The Doobie Brothers being hyped as "seed boys", or being sold out to the devil because they're selling lots of units. Like a gold record means the devil's behind you. It's trite - it makes mass popularity the standard for achievement, godly or devilish. Typically, in the Way you'll hear whoever's being lionized by the media as the newest fad as the one being promoted by the devil. It makes the news media the standard setter. Material abundance isn't the standard, benchmark, or primary indicator of spiritual achievement. Just because someone pulls their pants down and farts in a mic and everyone wants to hear them do it so they spend money on their concerts and cd's hardly means they've tapped in to the Devil's Pantry and are being promoted by Beelzebub himself, nor does it mean they're possessed or born again of some wrong seed. It just means there'll always be a market for audio flatulance. And some people like fart jokes. But it makes sense, in a way, that the Way marks popularity in the marketplace as a spiritual indicator because they love money and what it can do for their objectives. I can see why they look jealously at anyone else who gets any of it, because I'm sure they think they'd be better off having it. You've got a song in your heart. The world will be a better place for it being sung regardless of whether one person or a million hear it. THAT you sing it is what's significant, first and foremost I believe. No matter where you go, you'll never meet another "you". You're the only one of You we get - before you none like you, after you - no more the same, ever again. You are a one time deal. You're precious and for that reason alone it's a wonder to be on the planet with you at the same time. Know what I mean? ------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

ChattyKathy, you're sweet. I'm still pondering Ted's question way back up there somewhere and especially how it related to your first post. I'm slow, still pondering... be back... ------------------------ Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Zix, I'd agree on Brian Wilson. He's done some very nice music. It's funny how The Beach Boys were pulling from the Chuck Berry sound same time as the Stones and Beatles, but they did it totally different. He really developed over the years. I love the sound of "Don't Worry Baby" and even tunes like "Surfer Girl" sets a mood that's unique with the voices and instruments. "In My Room" is a deep tune..."Lie awake and pray" is one of those lines that captures the heart of just about every young person at one time or another. Behind the scenes, I'd think Phil Spector will probably be remembered for all the work he did in the studio. George Martin too, the "5th Beatle" as he's been called. I don't think they would have advanced as far as they did without his arranging and studio expertise. The shear volume of material both those bands recorded really set the bar for rock artists striving to write and record their own music. ------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Hey Hope, us lefties gotta stick together, after all everybody else is doing things backwards! We've talked about that thumb picking before. You do it very well. It's not my thing, I tried some John Pearse thumb picks and finger picks awhile back, a buddy that plays banjo got me messing with them. I'm dangerous using them, as in not good. It's hard to get a good sound with them, I can't just seem to get the knack. I know a few "rolls" and that's about it. I just stick to the heavy Fender flats and nobody gets hurt. --------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Sunesis, that's intersting about your picking down strokes naturally. So the "sweep" was the normal way for you to play. It took me awhile to get the feel for that, I'd worked so long at the up/down stroke and getting that coordinated. Never really got it fluid except for little parts here and there. That's cool. I'm left handed, so that was a challenge initially. I was 10 or so and on the borrowed guitar/chords on binder paper program. I'd play them left handed, and then the guy would come for his guitar and wince at the chords which were all wrong of course. I finally figured it out, but switched, it was just too much of a hassle. So for me, it was bass-ackwards with my hands and it felt comfortable to pick UP. but not down. For awhile it felt like the guitar was upside down, which it was for me. I drove my teachers nuts because I could never decide which hand to write with. This may explain a lot of things. I'm pretty locked in to the up/down pattern now, although I find whatever gets the music right is the "right" way to do it. Whatever works! I have a bunch of Eric Johnsons's music. Love Cliffs of Dover, and the stuff off Venus Isle. "SRV" is a really nice tune on that, with Jimmy Ray Vaughn doing a guest shot solo. Saw Eric with Steve Vai (YIKES!) and Joe Satriani a few years ago on their 3G tour. Kenny Wayne Shepherd opened. Eric's tone was deLICious! He had a lot going on, pedals, stuff. Handled it very well, played a 335 for most of the songs. Flawless, passionate. Joe Satriani is in my top 10 folder. I really like his playing and sound, the tunes he writes. If I had to take 2 albums to a desert album they might be B.B.'s "Live at the Regal" and Joe's "Flying in a Blue Dream", and an mp3 of "Krush of Love" snuck in on the side. Satch is probably my #1 overall favorite guitarist, harmonically, tonally, the whole deal. Buuuuuut, Robben Ford! Met him and played around San Francisco years ago around 1970 or so when the band I was in worked some of the same clubs he was doing. His brother was playing harp and he was a young guy. Played just exquisitely, totally "on". He was a pretty down to earth and humble guy. We were all Christians and we "rapped the Word" with him a little and I remember him being so "mellow", nodding and smiling and pulling his hair back, just going "yeah! that's cool, yeah". He seemed like he had a great attitude and outlook on life, very "together" for such a young guy. It was over 30 years ago, but at the time we all were knocked out by what he was playing and the fact that it was to club audiences of like, 20. On the other hand, saw the Billboard Music Awards tonight. Michael Jackson looked like he must be getting frequent flier miles from his plastic surgeon. Dunno.... Sack time! ---------------------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....