socks

Oaks, you sound like you're quoting those records like, well, records. :)--> A "believer" would say they happened just like that. An "unbeliever" would say they're lies, stories, myths, mistakes or embellishments. Frankly, I do think things like that happen today. I once read in a book I wish I still had, I think it was titled something about Surviving. It was a collection of incredible accounts that had happened to people, "miracles", but not a religious book. It had to do with survival in extreme situations. One account was of a guy who was lost at sea, believe it was a plane crashing in the water. He floated around in the water for awhile, trying to tread water. He eventually made it to land, miles away. He said that as he was trying to stay afloat, a huge sea turtle popped up out of the water near him and floated there for awhile. He was going to sink and drown so out of desparation he swam over to the turtle and shuffled up on the back of it trying to hold on. Suddenly the turtle took off and he just held on. The turtle swam to within land and before it beached, it turned around, the guy let go and he swam to shore. He swore that's what happened. I don't remember if it said he prayed or not. Another story in that book was about a kid in the midwest somewhere who fell through the ice on a lake and was submerged in freezing water for 11 minutes. Basically, he drowned and was dead when they pulled him up finally. He revived. These kinds of stories aren't exactly fire from heaven. Or are they? "Weird" things happen all the time, somewhere. Some of them have religious insinuations, some don't. On the other hand, when I think of things like Jesus walking on water, it's obviously an impossible thing that no one could do. Or is it? If He did it, apparently it can be done, it's just a matter of how it was done, what the cause was. Turtles saving drowning men? Coincidence? Or...? what...? baby's calling me home, she keeps on callin' me home.... (boz scaggs)

You might be a newbie on GS if... You got registered on GS but haven't posted yet because you're waiting to receive the list of Approved Topics that you can teach-um, I mean-share on. When it's your turn of course. If you used to think that "Email" was the Hebrew name for one of the sons of Ishamel ...you just might be a newbie on GS and the 'net. If you're sending Pawtucket 15% of your ISP host fees every month for fear he won't let you connect if you don't....yeah. You're probably a newbie. If the words "domain name" makes you dust off your old AC Syllabus pages on casting out of spirits, yup. You get a Newbie Cap. Oh, if you answered the questions in your personal profile on GS using more than 5 scripture references and now have a genuine suspicion that the one about "show tunes" may actually be a subliminal reference to the gay takeover of the arts, bingo. Free Snapple for the Newbie, we feel your pain. There's gotta be more signs.... :)--> baby's calling me home, she keeps on callin' me home.... (boz scaggs) [This message was edited by socks on December 13, 2003 at 22:14.]

Did something happen??? I thought you were talking about the Way. Something actually HAPPENED there??? :D--> Call Lima! Get the Wapak Bugle on the phone! No, this is big! Call the Dayton Examiner!!! :D--> baby's calling me home, she keeps on callin' me home.... (boz scaggs)

Cool. :)--> It's like a "group hug". I know one thing a lot of us used to dislike was being told what we had to do via Way Tree bureaucracy, whatever the next Big Thing was for our fellowships, yearly themes, "get the tape" instructions, "teach this", don't teach that. People here talk about the "old wineskins" thing of everything being tossed out from the past, etc. etc. etc. and it being anathema to reference certain things, yada yada. I can see that's not where you're at. :)-->But yeah, community stuff might be something cool to do for those who want to. It's a "sermon we can see". I often think of Jesus and the ol' loaves and fishes. The Samritan helping the guy who got attacked. Hungry peop's, gotta eat. Its' so very far away, takes about a half a day to get there, If we travel by my dragonfly.... (Jimi)

Hey Keith, ditto to Vickles. One thing you might consider is community involvement, helping the needy. Food Banks that provide meals and groceries to people. United Way has lots of organizations under their umbrella, you can give them a call. Just cleaning out your closets and garages and taking all your old coats and clothes and stuff and donating them to people. It's Christmas. Some people aren't going to have much to share or share with others. Wouldn't it be nice to know some kids out there got something to make their season a little better? Life is hard for a lot of little ones who didn't ask for it to be that way. Might be someone out there that needs you, you've got a lot to offer. :)--> Its' so very far away, takes about a half a day to get there, If we travel by my dragonfly.... (Jimi)

Ex asked: The ability to twist a square peg in a round hole and say it "fits like a hand in a glove". :D--> Its' so very far away, takes about a half a day to get there, If we travel by my dragonfly.... (Jimi)

double post-a-go go syndrome... Its' so very far away, takes about a half a day to get there, If we travel by my dragonfly.... (Jimi)

Neat! 's the 'olidays! Well, I loaded the cd player just the other day. -Nora Jones -"Cool Yule, a Jazz Christmas", various artists versions of Christmas standards. -"Aaron Neville's Soulful Christmas", standards sung by The Voice. :)--> -Mix CD-assorted Shawn Colvin (Fat City, Few Small Repairs) stuff, miscellaneous Beatles and James Taylor. -Fiona Ritchie's NPR "Thistle and Shamrock" CD sampler of Celtic and Irish music. -"Liquid Spank" ©, CD of stuff I've recorded last couple years. In heavy rotation: Aaron Neville-The Grand Tour, Neville Brothers-"Live on Planet Earth", Johnny Mathis 5 CD compilation, "Venus Isle"-Eric Johnson, Reflections - Guitar, The Fender Guitar 50th Anniversary CD. Its' so very far away, takes about a half a day to get there, If we travel by my dragonfly.... (Jimi)

Very cool, Danny. YOu reminded me of omething I'd all but forgotten about, a friend years ago in Florida who was looking into symbol ideas and came up with the anchor, and anchored cross. He was so excited! "This is a great image!" He made some drawings and things from it. Cool info, thanks! Its' so very far away, takes about a half a day to get there, If we travel by my dragonfly.... (Jimi)

Y'know, in terms of symbols, the cross is a good one. Like the biblical references to the cross, it speaks to the whole of the event of the crucifixion itself, as well as what Christians believe it means. Even though it's so commonplace, it begs the question, "what's that mean?" For a Christian, it's more than a 10 word answer. The dove too, is a good symbol. I've seen some neat little thingies that are images of the cross, with a dove on the top or arm, about to take flight. And the tomb, with the cover/stone rolled away to the side is a powerful image. Death, and it's place, overcome. As Coolwaters said, the giving of oneself for a reason isn't unique to Jesus. "Greater love hath no man" indeed than to give all for a reason and many do so in life and in death. From the standpoint of the biblical writers, it was the series of events of his life, death and resurrection that came full circle on the day of Pentecost. One of the coolest pictures I saw was in an ad for a poster, several years back. It was of a young girl, littly tyke, and she's standing there looking up at someone, Jesus, with a worried look on her face as she holds his open hand showing the huge scar on the palm. In the caption she's saying "What happened to your hand?" It's very poignant, especially when you consider what his answer to that situation might have been. It's a state of mind, isn't it? An attitude of true gratitude. We have redemption in Christ, but that redemption isn't fully realized yet with this "token" we have today, but we have this sacrifice for sin in Jesus's death and the wholeness that it allows today and in the future. In the future, we "know as we are known". Today, the humanity of our spirituality is to our benefit when we live in the midst of this "saving grace." Its' so very far away, takes about a half a day to get there, If we travel by my dragonfly.... (Jimi)

Thanks Ex. Glad you liked it. :)--> Raf, I had a long post all ready to go and reread the last page and danged if you didn't say the same thing. *delete*. It's really an "action speaks louder than words" thing for me when we get down to cases. Unfortunately, I see little connection between the "cross of Christ", the miracle of salvation and the lifestyle he lived of anger, rebelliousness and adultery. When I was young, it attracted me, and perhaps for the wrong reasons. As I matured, I realized we ain't gettin' nowhere like this. The fact that so many ministers, so called, have similar problems doesn't lead me to believe that it has to be that way, just that the field of endeavor has both weeds and flowers. Evan, a little "topic creep" music please...! Its' so very far away, takes about a half a day to get there, If we travel by my dragonfly.... (Jimi)

Cool discussion. Oldiesman, that's a great quote from Kenyon, thanks. Ex, if I'm reading all this right, it really does illustrate exactly what you're saying, which is rippling out across my brain cells in SUCH a nice way. I can see it as two sides of the same coin, one side being what Christ actually did for us and the other side our growth and maturity in appreciating and understanding it. The more we are able to dwell upon, embrace and realize what He did and who He was, the more we are able to be what God intended us to be through Christ. The way the story goes, our redemption wasn't something *snapped* in to existence by a willful god with idle time on his hands. It was crafted by our creator, with purpose and meaning. Redemption by definition came at a cost. We can't skip over the cost to focus on the "blessings" that result from it or we risk losing the lessons of life it expresses - like ultimate total giving that is expressed regardless of the return to oneself. I tried to describe this to my son once by telling him, someday years and years from now, you're going to have a son or daughter and you're going to have to do something for them that's going to be hard and that may even hurt you personally to do. But you're going to do it anyway because you love them and you know they need you to do it for them. When you do, remember me and remember that anything I ever did for you was nothing compared to knowing that someday you'd have a son or daughter and when you looked in their eyes you'd remember me and see me and our life in them. And you'll know that our love will be forever. Its' so very far away, takes about a half a day to get there, If we travel by my dragonfly.... (Jimi)

Got one today. :)--> Got an "atta boy" for my blood pressure, 117/74. It's been down for the last couple years, was higher a few years ago. I've also been poking around with vitamins. I'm taking a multi-vitamin, some extra C and E, with an Omega 3 and Alpha Lipoic acid supplement to make it all go round better, plus more veggies. This isn't in response to the flu season specifically, just trying to get my overall health rolling in the right direction this winter. A healthy immune system is the best defense. It's so very far away, takes about a half a day to get there, If we travel by my dragonfly.... (jimi)

Nice John! I've been pricing the HD tv's for a few years and they've dropped in price alright, still a tad pricey for me. I don't see watching movies on a pc monitor either, although I just got our first flat screen monitor from Dell, 21" and I really like the reduced space on my desk. Comcast has some plans for moving in to multi services on their cable service. Might play into it hey? We've got cable internet, Zix. Watchoo mean? :D--> Just tested my connection speed online, I'm at 2586 kbs, what's that, 2.5 megabits per? Normal connection speed is 2.3 throughout the day. I'm diggin' it! She's the wave, She turns the tide, She sees the man inside the child, it's alright, it's alright, alright, She moves in mysterious ways.... (U2)

my first double post! [This message was edited by socks on November 20, 2003 at 2:40.]

Hey Ralph, you need some software to "optimize" the image, which will reduce it's size. Here's a LINK to some tutorials that talk about it, as well as some other good information. If you have Windows XP, there's an optimization feature when you click on the file in it's folder, right click and select the email option and then look at the options for the image to reduce it. Send it to yourself and voila, you've got an optimized image. That might get you closer to the size. PhotoShop is a great program for doing this also, it's what I use, made by Adobe. JASC makes PaintShot Pro, which you can download free and use for a month and it's got features for this. It can also be bought on Amazon.com for 59 bucks, and it's a very good program with lots of cool things. First off you first want to crop the image, cutting out anything you don't need in it. That gets rid of unnecessary information that contributes to file size. Secondly, select an image size appropriate for what you're going to use it for...for the web, if it was a portrait vertical photo say, maybe a height of 150 would be right for an image of a face in a thread, it's what I'd choose anyway or close to it. In most programs, you can select an option for the correct horizontal size to be automatically matched to the height you select. Just play with it till it looks right...150 height by 125 width might be okay, say. Then select the optimization features. jpg's compress themselves. Once you save it you can see what size it is. Then work from there. Optimization can select common colors, get rid of some and let you look at it to see if the actual quality's being affected. Or send it to me, if you want. I'll do it for you and send it back. Just let me know what's supposed to stay in and what can be cropped out, if anything. Takes a couple minutes. :)--> soques@hotmail.com She's the wave, She turns the tide, She sees the man inside the child, it's alright, it's alright, alright, She moves in mysterious ways.... (U2)

Not hard for you, maybe! :)--> I hear ya though. I'm at a point where it's like a train wreck about to happen. Long as I keep moving it's okay! Getting in and out is a challenge. I'm doing this on guitar, and I've got one little "diddly dip" thing I can use, and another like it, and that's about it. The JP's helped me get past the comfort thing, for some reason finger picks always felt like I had weights on. She's the wave, She turns the tide, She sees the man inside the child, it's alright, it's alright, alright, She moves in mysterious ways.... (U2)

Hey Zix, what kind of finger picks are you using? A friend of mine that plays sent me some John Pearse, thumb and 3 fingers and I worked with them for awhile to learn a couple rolls. I'm not that good at it. Liked the John Pearse's though. She's the wave, She turns the tide, She sees the man inside the child, it's alright, it's alright, alright, She moves in mysterious ways.... (U2)

Well, greetings from de vino country, up Sonoma county way. Glad to hear the fires are under control. My wife's down So Cal way last week and this, came back over the weekend. We're praying for everyone there. Kit - Tom Boone, red hair, deep voice? I haven't seen him in years, but if it's the same guy, he was a good one. Don't know his whereabouts, no help there. practice makes perfect sense when it comes to love... >Michael Franks

Cool Mark. Early 70's California stuff might have been dealing with the incorporation of the Way West into the Way Int'l. Although there were no hard assets to speak of (that I knew of) the big asset of interest to the Way Nash was the ABS coming in, and what was done with it. 2 scenarios - 1, California remains independent, collects ABS and uses it at it's own discretion and sends what it wants on to New Knoxville. 2, All ABS goes directly to New Knoxville and they send back a part to the state to support salaries, rents, expenses, etc. In 1 California is it's own boss. In 2, N.K is and California personnel become basically employees. You know the drill on that period. I think a plan such as you describe would have been wise, too. Something that would have allowed for the fact that both of them knew that someday they'd be turning it over to other people and that there should be an opportunity to review how it was being used, as well as by whom. Today these goombah's can live off the past comfortably and do nothing with it beyond fulfill the past vision of it as a "place where the Word will live". How to do that today is something they should consider. They make a big deal about their tax exempt status too, but if I remember right, it's an educational exemption, not a religious one. When the Way was running two corp's at once, plus camps and classes year round onsite plus developing classes yearly I could see that as legit. Now it seems like much ado over next to nothing. They could easily do with a smaller allocation of resources to their current activities and possibly do something worthwhile with the land. Giving a portion of it back to the family members might sound part dementia/part fantasy, but given the way things have rolled out over the last 15 years or so, it would be a reasonable recognition of all interests. Again, they'd have nothing if the original family members hadn't developed it and supported it. To any Way-Boss Guys or Gals reading this, if you are, that idea's a freebie. Feel free to use it, no credit necessary. practice makes perfect sense when it comes to love... >Michael Franks [This message was edited by socks on October 29, 2003 at 0:02.]

Hey Mark, greets, maybe we can clarify a point you mentioned on the Weirwille property being deeded to the Way. It was deeded over to the Way in 1957 if memory serves. When their father died in 1956, there were two family farms that were divided into inheritances in the will. One of the farms went to two sisters. The 147 acre farm we all know as "The Way International" was left to four Weirwille's, Reuben, Harry, Victor and a nephew Charles. They had it appraised and Reuben and Charles both cashed out. Harry and Victor at that time then took their 1/4's and Reuben and Charle's parts and deeded it to the Way in 1957. VPW resigned his church pastorage in 1957 then lived in Van Wert. By that time "The Way" owned the property but they didn't move in for about 4 years while they got the property ready. practice makes perfect sense when it comes to love... >Michael Franks

Rocky: :)--> Well, more information would be nice, Garth. Indeed! I'm all E-ars. (e=electronic) I agree pretty much with all angles of the above. We're reading words on the internet. If I was going to be impartial, I'd say J.P.'s message was, they aren't telling the truth. I'd say Harve's message is yes we are. One of Platig's points is that if J.P. wants to take over, he's welcome to join in. He's making it sound - to me - like if JP had a problem, he should have voiced it earlier and in fact is still welcome to, and he'll be listened to. I smell smoke too, LZ. Based on past experience, I know Harve's a guy who considers being "valiant for the truth" talking himself in to believing whatever he's told, with a heaping dish of rationalization to make it go down easier. On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd give him a -1 on the Trust Meter. If I were involved with him in any way, I'd ALWAYS assume I need verification on anything he'd say, even if it was that the sun was out at 10:00 a.m. because he might really mean that it's cloudy and raining like cats and dogs but the sun is out "in his heart". JP I'd always assume was being honest and at the very least caring and well meaning because I never knew him to be any other way. People change, and it's hard to tell with this but in either case that's my view. All this stuff about Wanda being at the wheel is a tad smokey too. It just seems odd that a Weirwille-by-marriage is the only person with close enough contact to Mrs. W. to be in a position to direct these affairs. I'm not automatically discounting her intent, but isn't that caused by the fact that JP isn't an active member of this current configuration of the Way that he isn't allowed to have regular, normal contact with her as you would expect children to have with their mother? Able to come and go as they'd please, drop in, visit, etc. ? Actually, if it were me, I'd have ripped a hole through that place a long time ago, if it was my mother, but even saying that I know it's easier said than done. And it's why I stay away from the place and the people. No good will come from personal contact with disease. And I second that, Radar! Let the sun shine in on the business of the Way! practice makes perfect sense when it comes to love... Michael Franks

George, maybe it's becaue Mrs. W. couldn't "work" for the Way anymore. Which begs the question, just what does an 8 hour day of Harvey's "work" consist of? What do ANY of them do for "work"? I've been thinking of a quote of Frank Zappa's lately, and reading H.P.'s letter brought it back again. Zappa was being interviewed years ago in Musician magazine, I think it was. In case anyone's not familiar with him, he was a musician, guitarist, composer and depending on who you read he was a hack, a genius, a tad eccentric, whatever...figure anyone who names his kids Dweezil, Amhet and Moon Unit has some issues at the very least. Anyway...he always had some interesting things to say about the music industry. The interviewer was asking him about his tendency to be negative about the music industry as a whole, and he asked Zappa if he deliberately tried to sand bag his own efforts by knocking it all the time. Zappa answered "It's not my job to kiss their a$$". Next question was: "Don't you think you've grown more cynical over the years?" Answer: "No, I just keep getting more evidence to back up my original cynicism". Classic. practice makes perfect sense when it comes to love... (Michael Franks)

Indeed it is, Paw. Next there'll be snow in hell. It seems a massive case of the Worm Turning, and I don't mean that to be impolite, but after so many years of stony, self-righteous silence, apparently this issue of Mrs. W. is getting under their skin. Massive numbers of unsatisified members leaving, all the events of the last 15-20 years etc. etc. etc....for years and nothing, nada, and then this brings out a public rebuttal. Interesting. practice makes perfect sense when it comes to love...

:)--> Mano a .... Femano? We have two cats, Donald the guy cat and Topo Gigio, the girl cat. Donald's all guy, so much so that after his teen years nearly led to his early demise through much late night carousing and carrying on we had to have him, uh, that thing, the thing they do to guy cats and dogs that I can't say to uh, to do that to them. I resisted it, but it was the right thing to do. (I think he's forgiven my reluctant complicity) Now Donald's slowed down a tad and carries himself with the quite dignity of both a survivor and an experienced cat around town. He's 8 years old and still spry. He plays with birds, parks himself wherever he feels like it and has become the neighborhood mascot. I've got neighbors who don't know my name, but they know Donald, the big orange tabby that all the kids pet and play with and that hangs out on the lawn with the birds. Topo the girl cat is about 4 and walks around deceptively slow, cuddly and loves to be petted but only by us, she doesn't like the kids messing with her. She's a tortoise shell cat with kind of short hair. Unlike Donald she hangs out all winter, eats and gets fat, then works it off in the spring hunting stuff. She'll walk in the house and if we even make eye contact she lays down and spreads her legs and wiggles around just waiting to be petted and rubbed and tickled. She's cute. She also lays in wait for literally hours on end to pounce on Donald's bird buds if she can and will bring in all kinds of mice, birds and you name it that she's hunted and killed. I've seen her come up the driveway with a bird in her mouth and lay it down near Donald and he'll look at her like, "YOU SAVAGE! That's Bob!!!!!" Seriously, he sort of backs off as if he's freaked out a little. So Topo's the hunter-gatherer and Donald digs Meow Mix. They mix it up a little now and then and in the end Donald will kind of bat Topo over and they'll part ways for a while, but Topo has an interesting technique of always taking the higher ground in these skirmishes and so can hold her own against him until he sort of figures out that she's gotten the better position and kind of uses his size to best her. So I often wonder about this. The female cats do the hunting and the male cats do the other stuff, whatever that is. In Donald's case, it's like he thinks eating other animals is cannabilism or something, but Topo seems to like keeping her skills sharp as if she wants to be ready in case the Big Animals in the house stop filling the bowls maybe. I'm not exactly sure what all this means, but I am pondering the differences between the boy cat and the girl cat. There are definite differences. 'when you're in love, there's no time and no space. there's a permanent smile on your face... and hey somewhere, you threw your fear in the sea of no cares...'