socks

Yeah, the book sales TSRTS. There was a guy, nice guy, can't remember the name - Gary? He'd put together a door to door sales program himself one year. He bought the books from the Way, sold them door to door and made a buck or so, not much as I recall. But it was a combo witness and sales thing. Entre' to people and a great way to move the books. What's not to like, right? All I remember is he was brought in to talk about his idea to the corps at one point, and it was laid out as a possible way to "move the Word". Some people tried it, for a bit it was the hot topic. I think he had a little business going for awhile. In essence, not a terrible way to make a buck although I don't think a lot of bucks were made from the idea. It didn't really embed itself though as I recall. This happened with various ideas all the time. Like the PFAL "public ex" meetings, and the orientation meetings. Someone would figure something out, like hey let's get everyone that's coming in to the class together for a semi-formal prep meeting to make sure everything's set for everyone. Hey, that worked great! Then it would get trucked out the following year as the latest Hot Thing and ground in to a program. Rules would follow. "Guidelines". Expectations. Punishment for non-performance, glorious rewards and advancement for the successful. All because someone decided one time to have cookies instead of cake at class break or lay out the songbooks to the right instead of the left or something. Class costs - 25 bucks when I took it. 50 if you wanted all the books, PFAL, RTHST and the "collaterals", a gazillion little pocket sized booklets. It got up to 200 bucks at some point in the 80's.

Hi Catcup! Yes, that was the scenario, for a lot of us I'm sure. Money? oh, yeah. Money. How's this gonna work again? It will, don't worry. We'll make it work! The trailers weren't a bad idea, once it went in to motion but looking back, it was, as usual, half baked in implementation. Hooked up for months with electrical only, no working bathrooms, 80 or so people using two shower rooms in the EOB. If you liked locker rooms it was perfect. When it snowed, bundle up to shower. Shower with 20 or so of your best friends. Trudge back through the snow, change. Which was a big improvement over the previous bathroom/shower arrangments - the bathroom in the BRC, where there was a metal show stall. That was the earlier facilities the corps used before the EOB went in. When we were making the treks to Ohio, this all seemed like such a wonderful opportunity. Even at the tender age of 20, it was clear the Way didn't have all it's ducks in a row quacking. It was "quaint", but not together. PFAL had only been on film for a couple of years when I first went there. So it appeared for a few years like this was a unique time and place - a chance to be a part of building something good, at a time when a lot of building still needed to be done.

Older, smellier. But cooler. And much cooler than a talking automatron. :D--> I are talking my own words. I hope you get an answer here, Shaz. Perhaps some still-in stander will speak to your question. I promise not to queer their steer if they do. Trailers, John. Yes, the trailers. First brought in to house assorted 4th corps. They lined 'em up in the back parking lot west of the EOB, plugged them in and housed everyone through the summer and winter while the pads were laid and utilities ran for them. No water. But don't envy the souls who populated the Way Prod coach. What do you call 12 people in a big aluminum can moving at 65 mph? A bad laundry load. Trailer Trivia Factoid # 89: the 4th corps was the first group that had a lot of married couples, whole bunch. The year before the 4th corps came in, everyone received a letter announcing that they would have to bring...their own trailer housing. The Way Nash didn't have housing for everyone. So people had to plan to buy, transport and install their own. Details to follow. Howard Allen would be the contact. I worked in a trailer factory that winter, our WOW year, runnin' on the line putting in electrical outlets and wiring. So we contacted some friends going in and figured we'd split one. I could get a deal on one and actually had a pretty good idea of what we'd need. But those details were pretty sketchy coming back to us, and the $$$ was a minor concern. This went on for a couple months, and in the interim we paid a visit to the Way Nash and tried to figure out exactly where they'd be put, etc. "back there" was pretty much the response. Then we got another letter - forget it, the Way's buying modular housing and will be expanding to accomodate the numbers. Sort of. 4 couples, 8 people per trailer. But at least we had our own rooms, teeny weeny widdle rooms. So it still amazes me to this day that the Way accepted about 40 or so people into the program without a place to put them. --> Or for that matter, the uncompromised exuberance of youth that responded as if that was a perfectly acceptable idea. But current policies, someone, please! This is just the "on-hold" music!

Hmmm, there was also a "Zero" corps that was before the 1st corps, so-called because it failed so badly in VP's eyes, it demanded that history be rewritten so as to erase even the numerical reference to it. It was a first effort. I remember meeting a couple of the people in 1970 at the Way Nash at a SNS. I've got an old Way Mag around here somewhere with graduation photos in it. No Lynn's in that group, this group were pre-the-big-bang period. There were a couple of couples and a single or two. Not real big. Got canned, of course. Start over! Do it right! We'll do it right, this time! You're not really "corps" unless you've been canned at least once. The trick was getting out of the can.

Haven't you visited their site? Check out the videos. In addition to being very clean, it's very neat. Not neat as in "I met this guy and he's soooo neat!" or "Your butterfly tatoo! Oh, it's so neat!" but as in orderly. Every brick in a place for maximum blessing. Really, it's quite a place, in the videos. But there's all these, old people talking and wandering around. It's like, totally old y'know, like there's all these old people and y'know, I mean, they're so y'know completely like, just, all old and they're all talking old talk to other people that are really, just like, all old. And stuff.

If we don't get the 10 commandments, I think there's still value to having something like them posted in front of ANY government office, or anyplace that career politicians gather and pass...notably - thou shalt not lie thou shalt not steal thou shalt not screw your interns The list could go on.

John, I think we can call it "Tampy Bay Area Temp and Window Cleaning". :D--> Eagle, I have to admit, I joke with little or no actual experience. I am not and have never been a member of any ex-Way churches, societies or organizations, fraternal or otherwise. So I should make clear, if there's stealing going on you couldn't prove it by me. But I've "heard" of the tensions that go on within some of the groups, which I shall not name because I'm not exactly sure what their names are other than they're headed up and staffed by ex-Wayfers. And the stories are like milder versions of what went on in our Way-years (mine were pre-CraigIsGod years)- pressure to stay, to go, to get involved, to not leave, etc. etc. But without the heavy handed you're-going-to-non-household-he[[ if you do. More of a "this is right for your life at this time, I know it" kind of a limbonic thing, to swipe Excie's reference. There's a sense I get of - it's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Lots of the same people manging off each other. I guess it's a natural concern, maybe. If you left the Way or got dumped, or dumped on, or even were a dumper AND a dumpee and you've left, there's places where you can go and maybe get more of what you expected the Way to be and less of what you really got in the end. For me, it's been better to cut that cord. I don't want what I had, in the context of a church or "ministry". I don't need that and would never offer it to someone else. But I guess I can see why some people might. It's a free country. Sort of. It's much easier to have good thoughts about people when there's no coercion and no unrealistic expectations. Except to be a little lovey if at all possible.

John Are, we'll do that! You guys're cool. Need some cool, dry weather. Got any of that? In a way, I respect the fact that some people would be willing to expose themselves to the filthy environment at the Way headquarters, to visit anything. It shows great strength. To have to be on the same land within a few yards of some of those goat-herders...it's something I decided a long time ago I wouldn't want to expose myself or my family to. Knowing their willingness to lie, change stories on a dime, follow the direction of anyone designated as a "spiritual leader"....nope. At best you're going to need a shower after breathing the same air as that bunch. But if a person wants to go that route, that's their decision. Doug is one person who was "there" for me at a time when not many were. So he and others who choose this route are in my prayers.

Garth - Person In Goo? :D-->

Here's a solution - maybe some of the ex-Wayfers could form a "People's Library", that is, an actual library of people that could be checked out and used as temp members. Sort of a church temp agency for churches! Yeah! That's it. "Attendance down? Hearing clink instead of swish in your collection plates...? Don't steal...borrow! You need people, we got 'em! Call the People's Library and Temp Services Agency! We can provide you with trained qualified professionals, fully prepared to make your meetings swell! And all for a low monthly fee! And that ain't all...don't take our word for it! Try our October Special... Check out (2) members on our 99.95 special and get (1) member FREE, any gender, age or core belief structure! Good through 12/31/04 only! :)--> I think this is going to be a money maker. Anyone want to get on board, do it now. This could be BIG! "don't steal...borrow...TODAY!"

Dunno. No idea, Excat. Haven't heard much about POG's lately. They're hard to find. I saw some POG's on EBay, but they were kind of rasty looking, and way over priced. A good POG in mint condition is pricing pretty high, believe it or not. And POGFODAT's? Through the roof.

...overheard at the last FCF (Fresh Christian Folks) meeting... "Nice people you've got here....real nice. Expensive, yes?" "Thanks. Naw, they were a real steal!"

"Mah peopuhl..." Maybe trades-ies. Like a Fall/Winter Special? "When you buy two people, get a third, of same or lesser value!" (while supplies last!)

Excie's got the hedge of protection going! She's whippin' it! :D--> Maybe it's the emotional and intellectual property the Way wants to control. When a person who has left the Way visits VPW's gravesite, it's to remember and pay respects to something that the Way clearly wants to forget, old wineskin stuff. They probably figure it's okay for active Wayfers to do so, because they see it from the perfect perspective of the Prevailing Truth and they have everyone brain-frozen like Prevailing Popsicles. But for those to have left to do so...bad. All those toxic vibes circulating around the apple trees...bad. It'll sully the duck poop in the pond. Bad.

Yeah, Excie. We ain't in the Way Nash anymore, hey? John, yeah. You're probably right and I don't know any better than anyone else really, I just had to give this a lot of thought the few years before I left for personal reasons. You wrote - "It's not like they invited them into their living rooms but they just sort of let people alone and allowed them to drop in on a Sunday or the ROA or whatever as long as they didn't cause any trouble." That's the way I remember it, although if you took an active stance against the Way all bets were off. If you left and simply went about your business, there was less security 'in the old days' and if you didn't make a fuss you'd probably be left alone. People did leave and come back and they weren't thrown out at first sight. That's a different scenario but similar I guess. Loose ends - I think the Trustees of old wouldn't have wanted loose ends and ties to people and things that weren't in, of and for the Way. They likely would have wanted to clear the decks, get something set that wouldn't intrude on life at the Way and go from there. Dunno.

I don't know John. The founders never intended this? I've given this a lot of thought over the years. On a level playing field, I'm not so sure that VPW's response to the same kind of situation wouldn't be similar. I don't think he ever intended to make a plan that would accomodate people who weren't 'standing' with the Way ministry. We were always 'welcome at the Way' but that was because we were part of the 'family'. But all the years I was there he never allowed people that weren't active members to come on the property without notice and go anywhere and do anything without permission and supervision. Imagine VPW's still alive, and the Way has gone along it's way over the years, growing, etc. A bunch of people have left over disagreements with the VPW and the Way's teachings. Some of those people have family and friends who's remains were buried or cremated and scattered in the Way Woods. Now they want to come back and visit, pay respects. What would he do, how would he handle it? It's hypothetical, but I think to understand the situation it has to be looked at like that. Because for some people they may be looking at it as if "were VPW alive, none of this would be happening". There's another side to it though. If in fact, VPW were alive and we had left the Way and were opposed to it and it's teachings and practices in whole or in part at that time, I think he'd have little tolerance for accomodating us. Yet, many of us remember a man who could be extremely warm and understanding too. Not so if you weren't on board with him though. It's a difficult and messy situation because of the Way's beliefs about 'the household' of God. They have no respect for those who don't believe as they do in every detail. (If you do believe and participate they assume you'll be cooperative to their wishes, whatever they legislate.) Less so those who have 'known the truth' they teach and who 'depart from the faith' of their church. That teaching wasn't invented by Rosalie or Craig. It was taught by VPW. His conduct towards those who left the Way over the years leads me to believe that if he were there today in the President's position he wouldn't be happy about someone trying to march on the property and demand their 'rights' after they'd forsaken the 'household' of the Way. That's just some thoughts I've had. But having said that, it doesn't change the fact that the current Way trustees could rise above their Way-genetic material and attempt to bring the involved parties together and work towards a dignified solution. Act with some diginity and leadership that would include embracing those whose lives and contributions helped to build the Way, reopen their hearts to the broader vision of God and Christ and the church. But they won't do that. They seem bent on keeping the non-members, people they know all too well, at a distance. Big surprise. I just don't expect much from them, ever.

Don't expect it soon, CC. It's all about spin in the Way. They're soft peddling they're swill. Can't bring themselves to form a clear sentence, wouldn't be prudent, right? It's just hilarious that they'd get a highlight in a video series that features successful businesses in the U.S. Successful at what? Panty raids? Law suits? Ducking and hiding? Running a Museum of Bad Arts? After all these years not a one of them can get a decent head of steam up so's as to at least appear like they've got something relevant or important to offer that they're excited about. They look, speak and act dead. Rupp looks like a deer in the head lights and his next big move of the day will be a bowel movement. Don't get me started about Rosalie or Harve. They look like somebody propped them up and made them speak in to the camera. And I'm not being critical - I expected to see some flicker of the flames that burned so bright in their youth but apparently it's all fizzled out in the wax of the makeup they have plastered on for the camera. Which made me feel good in a depraved sort of way because it's good to know that they need that much. I mean honestly, my neighbor was more animated this week talking about his new fence than these guys are talking about what they believe is a new day in the Way. Gorton's fisherman. :D--> :D--> So true!! That picture is all about what the Way is all about. Busy work. Rows and rows of people keeping busy doing God doesn't know what. One guy planting while another guy throws dirt on it.

Sorry, can't hear you. :)--> Maybe you can post some cool Big Sea music. I still get "It's a Smaaaaaalll World" everytime I open the thread. I'm outta here. Email me if it goes away if you hav' a min' to.

BZZZZZT!!!! :)--> I don't move in the circles of 'power' these guys have created so the waves they create don't reach these shores. But the tide still comes in and goes out, everday anyway.

Geezo friggin' pete. I guess if a joke's funny the first 100 times I hear it, I'll pee in my pants after 500 times. Can Sudo or somebody with a brain cell intact shut that music off this thread?

Y'know Shaz, I did some searches for that whole thing and found some Chri$tian mini$try sites were actually selling cd's of it. Buy the cd, you know, to hear this powerful important message from Brother Roberts. Anything to create positive cash flow. These people should be taken out and shot. Not with actual bullets, that would be a waste. With squirt guns. While holding toasters. Plugged in.

If this is their decade of prevailing, they're off to a bumpy start. At the rate they're going, they'll be marrying each other by 2008. Just noticed, they still have that Bradshaw video up. C'mon Wayfers, get some dignity, please! You got a new poster, lose the paid advertisements. Weird quote - from Child of the Corn #3, John Rupp, when he's describing Way fellowship activities...he said there's teaching, prayer, and "words of edification and comfort". He's obviously referring to the manifestations, speaking in tongues, interpretation and prophecy. Strange - given the opportunity to speak the biblical truth that they're all crowing about, he deliberately avoids referring to those terms, instead opting for a watered down version that won't raise anyone's hackles about their Wonder Bread ministry. Can you say....compromise??? I guess prevailing is kissing a$$ instead of kicking it these days at the Way.

Oh my, has it been that long!?! Typo. Code for Uncle Noun. (..."unknown, you're cleared for landing...") A dish best served warm with a splash of clarity. I think I'm hearing out takes from The Rhythm Pigs first and only EP. Close those blinds and gawd, turn down that pixie crud sumbuddy! Can't even get a decent night's sleep or read the paper in piece since these psycho-cha-cha mooks moved in upstairs!!!

:)--> Das it! Danks!

After collecting, collating and counting all of the GS Karma messages everyday for the last 9 months and viewing them in every conceivable order, Mr. Mxyzptlk was finally satisfied. It was true, they followed no extraordinary sequence at all, ever. Then he noticed by chance that when he counted every other Tuesday's totals back in to the grand total...it changed everything.....