socks

Actually, I have seen dead people come back to life. It was in Ohio, at a supper meal, dead of winter. Somebody said "there's seconds!"

I thought this was one of those "...to screw in a lightbulb" questions, "how many staffers does it take to screw in a light bulb?" -just saw Mr. Hammeroni addressed this-to which I would add, it takes.... ------------------- 1 to explain the reason it's been dark for a week is your lack of believing because light bulbs could work forever if you'd ever really believe. 1 to reprove the maintenance person who was spiritually responsible for the bulb and who "made it dark". 1 to remember how someone once believed for a bulb to stay on after the power went out in alllllll of Shelby County. 1 to reprove that person for promoting "old wineskin" thinking. 1 to mark and avoid everyone involved with the entire "burnt out bulb" incident because they're all obviously homo's. 278 to deny any knowledge of any "light bulbs", and any screwing of said light bulb, either now or at any time in the past, or any persons alive or deceased who may or may not have touched the light bulb, if there had been a light bulb, which there probably wasn't. At least as far as they know. 1 to schedule the deposition to take their statements. 1 to write the next Way Magazine article titled "Victorious Living in Light", drawing deep parallels between light, plant growth and people. 1 to do the typo corrections to the article during the day because the burnt out bulb was in the Magazine department trailer. 1 to buy a truckload of light bulbs at half price, thus saving the ministry untold dollars. 1 to find out that the light bulbs only work in night lights. 1 to go to the A & P in Sydney and buy a pack of light bulbs, change the light, and be declared the new Maintenance Spiritual Leader for Our Day And Time. That oughta about do it.

ROR - Kid Rock derailment, I know. I've always felt the best part of rap and hip hop is the humor. There's some funny chit in that music sometimes, Kid Rock can do some schtick that's for sure. I think there's really 2 questions on this topic (at least) Renouncing the Way? Renouncing the Word? If it's a question of the "leadership" of the Way and their activities, it's pretty easy for people to just switch boats. Take all the teaching and ritual and just move to a different church with different leaders. Instant Offshoot. Everything you want, nothing you don't. Problem solved, at least for awhile and for some things. That oversimplifies it, but I think some people have gone that route and are happy. It solves the unchangable "MOG" syndrome. It solves the unreachable "BOT" syndrome. There's a lot of alternatives and options that open up once a person decides they're better off ending formal contact with the Way. But if a person simply finds it unacceptable to be a member of the Way due to what it's leaders do and have done they're right in leaving. Regardless of the number of times, the problems, the issues, or the methods tried, one thing that the Way International is not known for throughout it's history is changing anything substantial about what it does due to membership complaints. They may fire someone or move people around in their positions but they don't look at their core teachings to see if there are root causes in what they believe causing the problems. They don't like to talk about stuff and offer no public hearings of complaints or problems. Look at them now - they project that all their problems are solved because they've gotten rid of the "bad ones". The ones left are the "good ones". If you stay though there's some risk involved. Which goes to the 2nd question - the Word, the teaching of the Way. If the situation is - a person finds that the teaching itself is in error through the actions of the Way membership, let's say again the "leaders", then some kind of effort to resolve that is going to be required. Period. Unfortunately that's the reason a lot of people have stepped back and taken a second or third look at the whole of the Way's teachings. So it's personal, immediate. But that's not abnormal. Most of us go along the way we've always been until something upsets the apple cart. The Way presents it's doctrinal suit wholecloth. It comes in a package, it's "all truth", start to finish and to take a part of it requires taking it all. Because they present themselves as the "one true household" standing on the pure truth there really aren't any alternatives offered. There's lip service paid to not knowing it all but nothing substantial ever changes unless it's decreed by the current man/woman "of God". In that way they aren't (and have never been) much different than any of the denominations they criticize. The whole baby/bathwater description of these things oversimplifies the entire matter IMO. Same with the eat-the-fish/spit out the bones thing. These kinds of analogies assume to argue that what you had was the "baby", and the whole meal. For those who feel that way, I say fine. Have at it. If you don't the Way's teaching may be more like a crab than a fish. Properly prepared you can pick out the meat but the entire crab shell gets tossed. Where do I fall? I really value all my Way years mostly because of the people I met and got to be around, work with, etc. I was able to learn a lot of things and at the time it was probably all I could learn because of the choices I was willing to make. As I've grown, I've changed. If the person I am today was given the same choices as when I was 20, I'd choose differntly in regards to the Way and pursuing the teaching. But it's a conundrum - I wouldn't have the knowledge or experience to make that choice without the years of learning. Could God have directed me differntly? Did he and I ignored it? Or did He point "there!" and I went. Maybe it's not all that simple. Dunno. But where I landed was where I landed. So to me, it's a life lived and learned by. At this point I simply don't see the Way's teaching as a baby, a fish or really any kind of seafood to be honest. Life is bigger than that to me now. Don't tell me I can't write long posts!!! :D-->

No, it was a joke Sky. A meager attempt at "inside" humor, the inside being my brain. From in here, the view is clear and sunny. I'll have to identify my jokes from now on © ®. Although now I'm probably going to have a dream about Dorothy Owens wearing a snoot boot and Linda Z and the Way Mag staff at the 'head table' but with no food, just plates filled with blue forms as Dorothy says "you're using the wrong fork, that's the salad fork!!! © ®

Sky, do you think you know what God is trying to tell me in my dream? Finally, an interpretation! Now, that wasn't really a dream, just an obtuse reference to running on Weirwille Rd. in 1974 and Bill Maize, a man who taught Public Speaking to the Way Corps and I that I remember quite fondly. My interaction was so strong that to this day I will always remember how he would stand, arms folded behind his back, listening sagely to our 2 and 3 minute speeches. At the beginning most of us all said "y'know" about a 100 times a minute when we spoke. And he'd always nod and say "No, no. I don't know. You're telling me, remember?" His point - focus, stay on track. And at first it was infuriating but once I stopped doing it I really cleaned up how I spoke. Y'know? :D--> I remember arguing with him once, as we all did, that there was an appropriate use of those words, that sometimes it was natural. Since I did it all the time I resisted the idea of being told it was wrong, my comfort level was being intruded on. And he looked at me and said "When you've completed this instruction, maybe. That's up to you. But in this class, no, it's not appropriate". And then he smiled and said "You know?" Dreams...I see dreams as our brains sorting themselves out, not a good thing or a bad thing but something that's necessary. Shut 'er down and give it a rest. But I have had several instances where a dream was a pointed reference to something going on, with new information that played itself out later. When I recognized it happening as it had in the dream, I had one of those "deja vu" moment-feelings and proceeded. And bada bing bada boom, there it was. This happened once where I got the exact answer to a problem I was working on at work, just as I woke up. There it was right in "front of me" and I knew immediately - that's it! And it was. With all of the information stored in our brains, there's quite a bit there to work with. It's no wonder that it needs sorting out. If you could lay it all out and work with it at once who knows what could be done? To some extent dreams seem to do that, randomly pulling together all kinds of disparate pieces of our past. Or are they disparate? They wouldn't have to be. The relationships could be difficult to see in a linear view but from a-top Old Smokey when our brains are snoozing and not choosing - hmmmm. ? Maybe this has something to do with "flashbacks". Dunno.

Wow! What a blessing Extrada! :)--> You're meeting needs! There's so much available when you're tapped into all 9 all the time! Well, if uh 6... Turned out to be 9. I don't mind. I don't mind. Whoops, my flashbacks just got all kittywampus!

Geek, 3 things that I'm trying to govern my life by- -gracious living. -merciful behavior. -love. These 3 things have biblical definitions but can be approached on a simple, human common sense level. I define a "good" person and a good life by them. Gracious living is simply to give each person the highest standard of regard that I can muster at the time. "Grace" - undeserved merit or favor. I don't do good under that rule because you deserve it, I do good because I believe doing good is the right thing to do. Likwise merciful behavior. Not extending a forgiving hand only when someone deserves it, but because I believe it allows me to aspire to a higher standard by doing so. Forgiving any one person for any one thing is minor. Learning from the experience is major. Love - altruism in action. I Cor. 13 says it better than anything. Good done without the concern for return, where good is it's own reward. Grace and mercy in action. None of these 3 things prevent judgment. If someone were a self-serving greedy hypocrite, it doesn't change that, nor an evaluation of that by another person. If something stinks, it stinks. That's common sense too. These things simply provide some direction as to how another reacts and responds to it if they choose to.

Last night I dreamt I was being followed and then chased around in circles in front of Adolf's, by a crowd of people wearing "snoot boots", those small crotcheted nose warmers. I tried and tried but couldn't make my legs move, it was like running in water. I yelled out as loud as I could, "You know, I could use a little heeeelp here!" and Dale Carnegie appeared before me and said "No...I don't know...why don't you tell me..." and I woke up. Whooo. Very weird. :D--> p.s. Excathie, can I be in your Excellors group? :D-->

When listening to a minister teach, I have a tendency to clock how long it takes before the topic of giving them money comes up. :D--> It's more like a game than a flashback though. Having been in the Way for 21 years and part of fairly regimented programs and activities, it's natural that some things are imprinted so strongly that they'll remain a lifetime. It's how that information is processed is what's important I think. I don't have any huge desire to string chairs or straighten song books though. My "natural" tendencies to do certain things certain ways changes with time I've found. But still, every once in awhile something will come up and my wife and I will look at each and and crack up because some piece of trivia has hit us both at the same time. I have a tendency to drag out ancient minutiae about all sorts of things at the odd moment. Keeps her chuckling.

#4, Eagle. "taking over the holy spirit within"...is that what the Way was teaching at some point? I'm not familiar with it but nothing would surprise me. Can you elaborate?

Guppy Outreach, man. If you see green when you say Way, you just might be a diseyeple. ;)-->

This may be comparing apples and raisins, but a chorale/group gang that I really like is "Hillsongs" out of Autstralia. Darlene Zschech is the soloist/leader behind the music of this church, although they've branched out in to a number of groups and soloists. Darlene kicks some serious musical buttt. "Shout to the Lord" is probably her best known Christian song. In contrast to the Weigh's current music, here's the lyric to a Hillsongs tune "Free to Dance". This song bops at a nice clip, a rock/pop kind of thing. It contains a lot of quotable quotes, stuff that sounds familiar, but the message is one of joyous celebration. And these guys can celebrate their faith. We've seen them, and my daughter's been down to Australia twice for their summer music programs. We're not members, just appreciators. I feel like these guys are the Real Deal, they mean it and they're doin' it. There's a lot of Real Deal's out there, just waiting to be heard. :)--> "Free to Dance" This song in my heart, this song in my soul This song I was born to sing It's Your song of freedom, now I'm free to dance again. I'll sing in the darkness, I'll laugh in the rain Rejoice in Your love again. It's Your song of freedom, now I'm free to dance again Your Spirit brings me liberty Your breath of life has set me free Chorus: Jesus, Your love, it lifts me high Gives me reason to run this race with joy This song within me, Lord, will bless Your Holy name. Jesus, I'll dance before Your throne Bring this heavenly sound to You alone This song within me. Lord, will bless Your Holy name! Dance? Dance.

;)--> ;)--> Glad you liked that! The Singing Ladies could do his flip side (pun intended)..."Who's Your Mommy!?" :D-->

:D--> No, but they could probably slip in and no one there would notice, I bet. It was the way all the lyrics came across to me. Bland, redundnat statements, that's pretty much the way the song lyrics strike me.

But I wonder, how come it's all ladies in the main group? The guitar player's there, and there's a couple guys, but the lineup is all female. What's up widdat? Why Singing Ladies? Why not the Bellowing Boys, or the Screaming Mixed Singles or the Gaily Galluping Guys? I have so many questions....

Well, JT, those videos exemplify that. It's a view in to Way World. I highly recommend that they visit some clothing shops in Dayton and invest in some spongy, polyester suits for the men though. Something in burgundy or gray, and get some puffy shirts to go with them. That'll get 'em sweatin'. :D--> Not to beat a dead gecko, but the lyrics - who's writing this stuff? "We go to the bible and we Read from the pages all the Words that are there and then We know what we read is what We read when we read and because We read it and now we said it And that settles that we read it Since it said what we read and then we...." I dunno. I shouldn't make fun. But I do. Spank my buttt and call me Judy. I'm fun'd out. Can't go back to that site again, brain cells need recharging. I'll stop. But the tweezey synth strings...Naw, won't go there.

"Denny Crane"

Ex10, he was working! :D--> JT, that's really interesting. It's so weird. Why in the world would individual performances be eliminated? The individual isn't able to do anything without the household. It's the Buddy-System from He[[. So, were there any musical performances released by the Way in the last 10 years or so? Any awl-bums? CD's?

CW, those missing lines are: "He clothed them with spirit" "And now the Word's written for me and you" "More than silver and gold" Now that I look at them, it's encouraging to see grammar like "me and you". Me and you is accepted language, but it never use to fly in Way written materials, edited for the more correct "you and I". Oh my. Next thing it'll be "y'all". The Way doctrine forms an adjunct to true Christian teaching, IMO. Rather than a whole synergistic view of all the elements of believing in and following Christ, it offers a piece of it - the bible - as "the revealed Word of God", worthy of study and belief. It's the message(s) within that tell of the reality however. Most of the bible is a history book - what happened and to some degree what it meant. The Way chooses to view it as if it's frozen in time. The "written logos" has a purpose. To focus solely on it is akin to becoming like, say, monks who hole up in the hills somewhere, celibate and silent for a lifetime and never uttering a word, in order to find true inner communion with God, a "holy" life. That lifestyle takes a part of a godly life and eliminates all other aspects in favor of the a few. Likewise with the Way, IMO. It accounts for the disfunctional family environemnt that they produce. God place His "logos" above His name. Do we worship the package or the contents?

Catcup... time and opportunity, time and opportunity.

Stepford Choir! :D--> There should be a disclaimer before you load the videos - "Warning - Repeated viewings may induce the urge to do bad cha-cha steps!" The frightening part (and it is frightening to me - the looks in their eyes) is the ease with which they roll through their steps. "Okay, people! We've got an hour, let's make it count! Leave your brain at the door, there's no need for it. Start at the top, here we go! One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll, One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll,One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll, stop! Stand...lift...arm....hold....hold....release! Smile...One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll, One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll,One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll.......you in the back, smile! SMILE!!!! DAMMIT! We've got another non-smiler here! Crack that box open, get me another Smiler! Keep moving people, keep it moving!"

Skyride, I can't find that thread you're quoting from in your initial post. Which one is it? Catcup has a point - if people can be "stolen", maybe they weren't that good to begin with. Anyone truly rooted in the prevailing truth wouldn't be stolen would they? No, they'd be valiant champions of the truth, right? LCM went to so much trouble getting rid of all the losers in the 90's, maybe he just missed a few. I'd think they'd be happy at getting some mop up housecleaning, no charge. It's like they're outsourcing their own pruning. Only the strong will survive and that's what they like. Nice beefy, strong ones. And really, churches like the Way are like businesses anyway and businesses do fight for their slice of the market. It's no wonder if there are still mean-istries fighting over the people of the Way. Far from being sheep, they're treated like beef. Cows. Steers. Moo-moo's. Rustle a few strays, put together a li'l herd of your own, ya gotta right nice spread.

As always, very strange. What's the difference between "Current News" and "What's New"? That's a lot of new, y'know? Of interest - Claudette Royal's on the first video in the list. Now that I've watched these videos over a period of time, I've nailed down something I couldn't quite articulate upon first viewing. It's what seems to be the primary message of the performances - absence of individuality and identity. Anyone else notice this? It's more than the constantly matched dance steps and body movements, although that's a big part of it. It's more the obvious self-satisfaction that goes along with them as if the performers are gleefully saying "see? we're all doing the same thing...!" There's a hammer-like bludgeoning of the point, over and over and over. It's very weird, as if the message is "there will be no individual accomplishment here, no processes completed that aren't decided in advance". And what's acceptable is what you see, over and over and over. The smiles are as real as the practiced steps. The enthusiasm has all the depth of the number of times the routines were practiced. Interesting.

Class Mammon Trivia - the 1972 WOW program introduced a class "rebate" program. That year for a couple months, if you signed someone up for the class, you got 20 bucks back. Cash money, to the WOW that registered the person. Experiment. Try it out. See if it floats. Didn't float. Although not always promoted, PFAL had a money-back garawntee. If you weren't fully satisfied, you get your money back. Just ask. If you're not happy, we don't want it. Anyone remember that? I gave a refund once and the reaction from the limb was - you'd have thought it was like Peter asking Judas for a loan. But it was, in fact, the policy. I did a PFAL Public Ex once. VPW showed up and did about 20 minutes, he was on the road, was in town, showed up. As he was going through and talking about registering he leaned over to a guy in the front row and said "And sir, if you're not 100% satisfied with the answers you receive in this class, you can have your money back. That's YOUR satsifaction, sir. If you're not, you'll get your money back".

That's it! Thanks Catcup. I remember Jerry now. He was tonsorially challenged before many of us. :D--> I never took the thing seriously, there were always flavor-of-the-year things like that. Steed, books. Something or other. But I should talk. "Wanna buy an album?" :P--> Door to door - one year I got our fellowship together and got out a map of the town we were in and started talking about "W.O.W." What's that? How do I know when we get there? Is it a commission or a goal? Waddizdat? I"d been "thinking" about the whole WOW thing since the 70's but it was getting harder and harder to actually discuss the topic. Just sign 'em up and shut up, please. So we started going door to door, and had fun. The idea was, we'll try it, and if it sucks we'll stop. No one, including me, was thrilled about marching up to someone's door and interrupting them watching Starsky and Hutch, god forbid, but we figured it might be fun. AND the side benefit - we'd mark off the streets on the map as we went. Yellow marker lines all over that baby. At some point if we continued, we'd have every street covered. So at least we'd have some sense of accomplishment, much needed in the early 80's as the Way Tree bureaucracy was being taken over by briefcase toting mooks. So we had something that was measurable and doable. It was an experiment. Maybe if we actually went out and talked to people in a way that allowed for us to meet people, that'd be a step towards understanding what we were really trying to do ... which was, what was that ... ? Door to door wasn't ideal, but it was a brief start for us to see what we wanted to do. We covered most of the town. It was a lot of fun, met some people along the way that were really nice, had adventures, exploits. Y'know, we were gettin' 'er done! :D--> After the first night we tried it I was ready to put it to a vote - continue or not? Everyone was too busy buzzing about who they'd met, what they'd talked about and their own plans to get back together with people that it was obvious, we'll give it a shot for awhile. So we did. For a couple months it had a life of it's own. I never mentioned it to the Area coordinator where we lived, he heard about it from other people. At first he was for it, and people were getting all scared yikes! we'll have tod do it next! Soon enough he was making cracks about us - "We need to witness but it's not like we have to go door to door every night!" Which was typical. We didn't go every night, and we didn't even go every week after awhile. It evolved into something else on it's own. At no time was anyone coerced to do it. We joked about our own feelings about doing it, for gods sake. But it was in sharp contrast to the sit-on-your-*** attitude of Way tree leadership who usually had "Mangement Ministries" devoted to planning everyone else's lives, as opposed to "Get Out and Actually Do Something" ministries. -------------------- pea s tbe word a$$ was a$$stricked out by the board, thank goodness, I went nutz there for a minute. Sorry, buut that kind of fowl language is for the birds and I'm glad it got marked out. I lost my mynd for a sec.