socks

Thin Liz, if you're still about - I'm also curious about the AC statement. What is it about taking their AC that concerns you? Is it the content? Or the requirements to take it? (if there be any). Or the expectation after you've taken it? Just curious.

Okay, I'm going to be tearing up here in a minute, so I'll make this quick. My daughter once game me a card with things in that I'd done and we'd done and her reminisces about it. It wasn't that long or detailed, but it meant a lot because I saw she remembered them, and us. I loved it. When you said your Dad would tell stories about song on the radio in the car - I do the same thing. I'll go off on a 10 minute dissertation on - whatever. I love that stuff. You might consider getting a journal book, one big enough to write in and put pictures, photos or drawings. Write down some of the things you remember about him, times together, maybe some things you just have seen in him and his life, things that he might not even know or remember. What he means to you. Tie in a photo or picture and put in on the pages next to what you write. Possibly some song lyrics. And a CD of some music that he would like. Total cost, maybe 30 bucks? You're his daughter. You're the only one of you he's got and ever going to have the joy of calling "my daughter". If he loves you and I'm sure he does, he'll love that you remember. Okay, I got something in my eye. Gotta go!

Belle, a couple of those quotes that caught my eye- Page 29 - Segmet 6 More fuel for worshipping the Bible: "God's Word is as much God as God is God." I believe it's completely possible for a person to replace the desire to try and know a living God with recognizing a written god, because it's much easier. But it could be very wrong too if a person stops there. It sounds like LCM took this up a notch (BAM!), although this was taught by VPW, and it's one of the more confounding statements to come down the pike. I can clarify to an extent what VPW meant, because I asked him while in the corps, but no idea what LCM may have meant. VPW based it on the word "logos". In the bible, God is "the logos". The Word of God, written is logos. (Jesus Christ was also the logo, the "living logos"). In overall context, that's all true on face value. But taking it and forcing the above statement out of the usages of the word logos is - well, now I'd say it's naive and even at that time, seemingly contradicting PFAL in other places at to how to interpret the bible, which was why I asked him about it. God's "word" isn't God, anymore than my word is me. Semantically it makes no sense. There are various usages of the word logos and the usages in context point to the meaning. It would be correct I think to say that God can be known by "His Word" and that it's occurence indicates the presence of God's intentions, but not "is" God. Christians "fellowship" around "the Word" and are involved with "the things of God", presumably as given by Him. "The Living Word", Jesus Christ is essential to Christian life, as Christ makes known to us God and how God is. The closest thing the bible talks about to "being" God is Jesus Christ, in that He Himself said "I and my Father are one" and, "He that has seen me has seen the Father". But God also said "put no other gods before me". This is interesting too: The Word of God is our ONLY standard of believing and action. With other denominations - it's leaders and then tradition and then maybe the Word of God. RC religion has been around longer than the Word of God. The Way progressively developed it's version of the "R" word, religion, with a pope ("The man of God) who had the power to draw down "present truth" as excathedra as any pope ever did. It developed rituals and customs like twig orders of service, bookstore set up and other agendas that had to be obeserved consistently without deviation. Rules for punctuality and dress that supposedly displayed how loving and respectful a person was, fetishes for detail and cleanliness that produced a true godly environment. The list could go on and on. It always fascinated me how in PFAL VPW denigrated churches for caring more about the flowers on the altar and having everything "just so" but not caring for the the bible. Yet in a few short years those very kinds of things were as important as anything a person did with the bible, because those things supposedly were external indicators of how much you really believed. The result was the same thing - ultimately, if you didn't have all your ducks in a row doing the cha-cha just right, the whole night would fall to pieces and the "Word of God coudn't live tonight peo-pul" because someone didn't "think it through". Never mind that most peo-pul never had a chance to see let alone miss the mints in his little dish that weren't there, or the coffee that was cold, and no one gave a hoot about any number of other things that were so "essential". (It's always good to do the best job you can for others. It's in bad taste for those people to throw it in everyone's face in public if they thought you could have done better. Sooner or later they're going to rebel. Can I say "Martha Stewart" :P :D ).

There's a Thai restaurant down the street that can get weird sometimes.

Why, my pleasure, bra'. Speaking of music - Link Wray died earlier this month. Talk about a guy carrying a BIG STICK. He did a lot of music over the years, but he had one song - one tune, one statement he made that rocked the music world for all time. Literally. "Rumble". Some artists are known by their output, the number of songs written, recorded, performances, awards received. Link wrote and recorded one and that was that. Lesson over. Last one out turn off the lights cause we're done. That's a very unique contribution to have made. If anyone's never heard it, you need to. It's one of the songs that defined rock and roll. It's only got 4 chords and one scale. Turned up loud enough you can hear every rock song that came after it echoing in the long spaces between those chords. He said later he made the loud, distorted guitar sound by punching holes in the guitar amp speakers with a pencil. The "solo" section is him grabbing the top 3 strings of the neck at the 12 th fret and ripping away at high speed over and over. It's such a simple statement of intensity that it's hard to imagine anything else in that spot. It's the perfect song. "Power chord", "punk", "metal", "shred". Link invented them all with this one song. He hit the ball that went over the fence that's kept going year after year with Rumble. Rumble. It's a weird name, but it's the only name that would have fit it. Just hearing it the first time I knew instantly what Link meant - no idea who he was, where he was, what he was doing on the guitar or how he did it, but I "got it". Link Wray and the Ray Men. Very 50's name, making music that would be listened to 50 years later. I have no doubt it will be around for a long, long time. Link - sleep gently. To that future gig -

Pass the Marg - a - reetahs! I'm getting like, NO orders on my books, even the ones I plan to write. Geez, I'm doing my part planning great things, you'd think... themex, okay. A semi-cogent comment. I think you can "fix" it, if fixing it is gathering a few or more people together who feel like you do and who want to figure something out for yourselves. You do have a problem facing you though - any attempt to connect this to the Way International of New Knoxville is going to get shot down fast, if past performance is any indication. They're not going to have anything to do with a bunch of people that have left the Way ministry, or that they've kicked out, who want to somehow fix anything associated with THEM. You can make the noble effort to offer, but it would be unrealistic IMO to expect anything from them. To rebuild something of your own - hey, go for it. Like I said, I think it's counter productive to make part of the "fixing" to try and determine who of the identifiable "name" former Way leaders you're going to hook your train to for leadership. To me, that's a sign of weakness. Be your own leader, your own cause, answer your own calling. Or not, whatever suits you is fine. If you're inspired and you do though, then you have something to offer from your efforts and you've figured out where you stand instead of someone else telling you where you stand. That's my take, which may be very off target of what you're about. You haven't really said much about what it is you're looking for or really want to do. At least for me, I can't get a clear idea of it. So I'm shooting what I got here. My thought would be - if you did this, you'll end up with something very different than anything resembling what it once was.

My stories have too much dust on them. But the wife swapping reference, Wordwolf, I'll comment on that. In 21 years in the Way, including the Corps training, my wife and I never knew about that, or had any invitation to do so, by anyone. All these years later, I try to imagine if someone had suggested it to us - if anyone around us was doing so - what my reaction would have been. I can't imagine being talked into it with some kind of "spiritual" argument, as if it was somehow allowable from the bible, or some such crap. Because of course it couldn't be. Not to mention my personal committmnt to my spouse based on our love, no small part of any decision I would make. Reading some of the comments over the last few years that crop up I wonder - if people did this, if they weren't predisposed to it anyway. Meaning given the opportunity, a slight nudge and a beer they would have said "Sure!" regardless of how it justified or not. I mean, it seems you'd have to be pretty dammed stupid to buy into it. Or selfish. I dunno, it's hard to picture or figure out. Dunno. My story along these lines would be boring. No wife swapping, no wrecked marriage, no divorce, no remarriages 2, 3, 4 times, no kids scattered all over the country. Boring.

Hi Evan. I went out to Rhapsody and pulled up some Masai music they had. Funky stuff!!! I can hear the power of the music, as well as the subtleties of the melodies and the rhythms. Don't know how authentic it is, but it's very airy, some just voice I imagine the performance of it together with the people would be a very powerful sharing experience. Different stuff, but I've always liked middle eastern folk musics, too. Studied North Indian ragas years ago, still have the textbook. It's very interesting how indigneous music, the native stuff we create and tool on our own, is becoming more and more blended. The blessings and curses of global communication I guess. The more modern middle eastern stuff that really kicks it for me is the Palestinian music, which I can't really identify by artist or performer but I like. After about 5 or 6 cups of that 30 weight coffee they drink and an hour of that - whoa! You got some giddy -yup in your go-tank. I can picture the mic's you're talking about Jonny. Sounds like most of the sound is in the player's technique, right? I looked up these microphones, vintage models. Not sure what that big vocal mic is, but this one looks familiar - HERE if you scroll down a smidge. This page lists all the Shure mics alphabetically. I know the 55SH has been around forever, it was the first mic I bought years ago. The good old SM58 is still the choice of champions on both big and small budgets. Not the best but very consistent for the money. An SM57 does good things on an amp too. :) Sharon, it's funny you mention Bruce Springsteen. I like his stuff and have only been checking it out in detail since I got Rhapsody and I can listen to it online. I remember first hearing "Born to Run" on the radio in Miami years ago, and pulled the car over. "What's THAT?" Personal preference, I've never really liked the way he's recorded with the E Street band, the full band stuff. It sounds slightly thin to me which is weird as he's obviously a powerful performer. Sounds like the way to see him is live. I would think it would be very intimate.

JL, thanks for the harp information. I did some googling and can picture those harmonicas now, the Marine and the Lee Oscar - he was with War, still is I think. That design sounds pretty cool. It's interesting about the 20's. . But that reed-in-the-mouth thing! Not funny but sounds funny reading it! :D This makes me think - a lot of harp players use their own mic. But then I've seen others using whatever's onstage. I saw Robbin Ford few years ago and his brother played, harp. Seems like he used the stage mic. Does that effect the sound much? Oh yeah, John Popper. I saw B. T. a few years ago in an outdoor concert in San Francisco. Way too cool. I was impressed that he played and did his thing and sounded clear as a bell. Have you heard the tune "Carolina"? Cool tune. The guitarist in the band has never thrilled me although he's good, but he did some nice stuff on the live set, and did Carolina without the effects he used on the CD version and it ROCKED. It was like Cream, if Clapton played harp and guitar, that kind of sound. Way back in the 70's Lee Oscar put out a solo album that I bought, although I don't know if it got much airplay. Sort of a funk/r and b jam thing. Don't have it anymore, but it had a dragonfly on the cover art which I liked cuz ya gotta have wind if you're gonna ride the dragonfly and Lee O. could blow. It was nice stuff, Bobby Vega, the bass player, was on it. Don't know if it's still around or not.

I read the news today, oh boy... Ditto on the commercialism. It's all some strange mix of - I dunno. But the news reported it's going to be one of the Biggest in sales, ever. Many moons ago, I managed a photo studio that was located in a shopping mall. I won't mention any brand names but you're probably familiar with the kind I'm talking about. Normally it was - well, let's just say challenging, but it got really weird over the Christmas holidays. Where we might normally have 50-60 shoots on a Saturday, there would be 100's, literally, 5-6 weeks before Christmas. Everyday there were 100's of people navigating the mall and our studio like a guerilla army of freedom fighters executing intricate tactical maneuvers and we were evil despots about to be attacked and overthrown. Still others perferred brute force and mental torture to assume domination over both their rival customers and store employees. I have to assume there will be 1,000's of children forever traumatized by these experiences and have recurring nightmares till their 45 where they're surrounded by strangers holding stuffed toys yelling "Ooooooo, 'ou look so CUTE!" While some woman named Mom says "Smile for the nice - no SMILE! I said SMILE DAMMIT!!!! DON'T PUT YOUR HAND ON YOUR FACE!!! SANTA WON'T COME IF YOU PUT YOUR HAND IN YOUR FACE!!!" The horror....the horror..... The entire experience was summed up that year by one of the people I hired for the holidaze, a really nice young girl, a student. One afternoon about a week before Christmas, she was standing by the register wearing a Santa's elf hat she'd brought in when she started, and she slowly took it off and looked down at it with a blank stare and softly said "I thought Christmas was supposed to be...fun..." I took her out for some coffee and did my best to remind her that Christmas was coming and it really WOULD be fun. Really.

Cool Parsley! Glad you liked it. :D nellie, sorry that happened! I hope it wasn't the site. I haven't purchased anything else from Art of Life besides that CD, so I don't know. I didn't have any problem, that I know of anyway. Let us know how and when it gets resolved, I'm definitely interested!

Happy Day after Thanksgiving! Let the 12 Days of Leftovers commence! Oaks, I agree, that appears the way Acts and the first generation of the followers of Jesus worked it out as they told others and spread the message. Nearly everything I studied in the Way dealing with TMOGFODAT concept built off the Old Testament. When viewed historically the Way teaching drew the conclusion that "there was always one man of God" for God's people who was the primary point of contact for God to the nation of Jerusalem. But that's not really a clear picture, when the whole O.T. is read, and the various prophets are considered, like Naaman and his interaction with David. David was "king" but God obviously wasn't only dealing directly with him. The idea that the "apostle" is the spiritual head of the 5 gift ministries and the whole church is questionable, IMO. The gift ministries are fluid, by design. Whatever the need is at the time, place and people is the "greatest". They're only important if they're doing some work and actually helping someone It's like - it doesn't help if you've got 100 union electricians standing by and what you need is to get your lawn mowed but all you get is shrugs and turndowns because the electicians don't touch gas mowers, that's another union. I think all of this "The man of God" stuff produces atrophy and laziness. References about "the" man of God in sections like Timothy don't refer to either Timothy or Paul as The Top Leaders, the instructions to Timothy would have applied to anyone who wished to have an active role in pastoring the church and spreading the gospel. Paul's role was certainly unique, but he started initially being sent by the church in Jerusalem to revisit churches and later continued to travel, teach and minister. He recognized the chuch in Jerusalem and deferred to their elders, ultimately to his detriment I believe, but in his day I don't think there's evidence in Acts to support the idea that either Paul, Peter or Jame were recognized as The Man of God of their day and time. Certainly they stepped up and people recognized and responded to them but there's ample evidence in how Acts rolls out to see there was plenty of diversity and discussion going on. In retrospect we see Pauls' contribution as the person who developed and presented the who/what/where and when of post-Pentecost Christianity. That came slowly over many years following his experience seeing Jesus Christ himself. Your description "first among equals" also seems to be the way they worked - Peter takes a prominent step forward addressing the group in Acts 2, on Pentecost. There's James, John, later Paul. We read about several men and women, and figuring we don't read much about the other of the "12" and start hearing about others like Agabus suddenly, it seems the dynamics were natural. There must have been a lot of the followers of Jesus that knew Him firsthand who were active and we don't hear about them, as well as those who come in after Acts 2. We read about what Luke wrote in an effort to pull together the main threads of activity but not all the people by any means. Given the dynamics of any group of people, their times and culture, I think Acts isn't intended to provide a "template" of how structure and organization should ALWAYS work, rather a view of how it DID WORK, in that time. There were many unique factors involved that we now don't deal with, certainly not in Western culture and we have our own that are unique to us. It's dicey to memorialize everything they did and make that the only way it can or should be done.

Happy Thanksgiving! I hope everyone has a great day! An interesting thing that's in that article is the distinction being given about how cults are defined. I don't follow cult/anti-cult information or activities, so this may be well known to others. Overall, the web page points out a lot of good information. I trhink the saved/speak in tongues part is vague, but there's a lot more there. They got the Way Tree description right, although I wonder if the Wayfers still use that metaphor. Other points are clearly stated and although I was involved years ago, it seems clear in many places. They don't argue how good or bad the Way is or way, but collect some facts and figures and lay them out. Interesting page Belle, thanks!

Wordwolf, the speaking in tongues is referenced to "10", a Waydale archives quote. You may be right about the Way Urban myths . The quote is "The only visible and audible proof that a man has been born again and filled with the gift from the Holy Spirit is 'always' that he speaks in a tongue or tongues." The text of the web site page goes on to say - "This would imply that Christians who do not speak in tongues are not actually saved". Page 31 of RTHST, 7th Edition reads - "No one speaks in tongues until after he is born again and the holy spirit is permanently within". PFAL, 1st Edition, Chap. 25 - "The gift from the Holy Spirit was given on Pentecost and is readily available in our times as it was to the apostles for we all belong to the Church of God. The gift comes with an individual's acceptance of Christ as his Lord according to Rom. 10:9. The book of Acts and the Pauline Epistles are constantly making reference to the power of the holy spirit or else demonstrating the power of which those men of God knew they had"......"We have the gift, holy spirit, but the manifestations must be operated by us: and this most believers know nothing about". "Speaking in tongues - bringing forth a message from God in a language unknown to the speaking which will edify the spirit. Speaking in tongues is to be used in private prayer life unless the message is interpreted in a believers meeting". The overwhelming message of PFAL, whether it be right or not, was that many believers - those already born again of God's spirit - have no idea of the "power of God" available to them. That is, they're already "sons of God", "born again" and "saved" in that they are redeemed through belief in Christ. Two types of "receiving" were defined by usages of the words dechomia and lambano. One was to receive inherently, to have it, as in holy spirit dwelling within. "Going to heaven and all hell can't stop you", as quoted in PFAL. The second receiving was to receive into manifestation, that point where a person, by believing, brings into physical evidence the inner holy spirit. PFAL presented that in the last 3 sessions of teaching as to speak in tongues, a basic fundamental operation of the holy spirit within, available to every believer. Chapter 19 deals with The New Birth: "The moment a person confesses with his mouth Jesus as Lord that person is converted, saved, born again. ... to the point that he says "Jesus is Lord of my life and I know God raised Him from the dead," he is born again of God's spirit. That person has instantly changed lords: his now on the way to heaven and all hell can't stop him from going because he is a son of God having Christ in him. He has eternal life. He is no longer a natural man because he has received the spirit from God". ... The man of body and soul can so easily believe and receive eternal life, which is the greatest gift that God has ever given to man at any place, at any time". PFAL makes a couple other points. One, that "spirit" isn't directly perceivable by a person's other 5 senses. However, a person by taking "believing" action upon what they can learn, can manifest or "operate" holy spirit. At those times, whether when speaking in tongues or any of the other 8 manifestations taught, it becomes "evidenced" in the physical world. The spirit is the engine that propels the car, so to speak. Just as a person has the ability to speak, they may never speak a word. But when they decide to speak, words come out as they use the ability they have. A person may have eyes but keep their eyes closed and never see anything. When they decide to open their eyes and focus, they use their eyes and see. I don't ever remember hearing VPW imply that a Christian that didn't speak in tongues wasn't "saved". Rather that a Christian who didn't wasn't operating the power of God, the "abundant life" of John 10:10 in this "administration" to it's fullest potential. I don't doubt people may have come up with that, in some esoteric logic, even more esoteric than PFAL itself, but I'd have to question that being based on any of the PFAL based teachings I heard. Second, third hand maybe. "This is what VPW really meant", maybe. "Well, they're born again and saved, but they aren't really WALKING in power", yes. VPW hammered this point about speaking in tongues being the only "real" proof of the inner presence of holy spirit pretty hard, based on the teaching of 1 Cor. 12. It was more a thread of logic IMO. That...if holy spirit can't be perceived by the 5 senses directly....then how are you going to know it's really there, and further if certain things of God rely on that holy spirit being "operated" how will you receive them if you don't operate them? This is pretty long, so I won't post my thoughts here on how that shakes out, right or wrong. I just wanted to try and clear the air on what I myself learned way back when.

Maybe it means that it takes 3 of these guys to do what it took one Ermal Owens to do. Rev. Rosalie F. Rivenbark - President Rev. Vince McFadden - Vice President Rev. Roger Mittler - Vice President Rev. John Rupp - Vice President Rev. Jean-Yves De Lisle - Secretary-Treasurer McFadden, Mittler and Rupp. Sounds like a group of attorneys. (picture 3 guys on TV with smarmy smiles saying in unison "We want - to help - YOU! Wills? We do 'em! Been hurt drinking coffee? Get what you deserve! Neighbor's dog doing his business on your lawn? We can help! Call us now!" Rivenbark and Rupp - sounds like a dental practice. "We drill 'em and fill 'em, and that's the...tooth!" Yves De Lisle - a new fragrance line? Noveau Euro-trash commercial - Tom Cruise look alike, jumping up and down on a couch while 8 German clowns dressed in black and white striped pajama outfits play "Misty" in the background on violins and a straw haired skinny blonde in a pink poodle skirt slaps a female mime in the face repeatedly in the foreground whispering "Ignorance cannot speak!!" and the voice over intones - "Promises, promises...she said we'd always have France...the smell of...Yves De Lisle...." Platig - the latest....oh, wait. Shred that.

If you're actually going to do this themex, I won't be able to make any of the meetings but I will gladly volunteer, here and now, to be the New Leader of the Way Corps program. What I have to offer is too much to write here in this brief post, but it will be in my next book titled "Me - It's All You Need". You can reserve a copy of this important work FREE of charge at no expense to you or anyone, by sending $45.95 American (to cover the shipping and handling) to me at FREETRUTH.com - Packed with tomorrow's truth today, it is sure to thrill the soul and will come with an unframed print of Me, the New Leader, completely free and at no additional expense to anyone. It will include all the anwers to all the questions I've had, important questions, but no one else's as the questions other people have are, well, stupid to be honest and I intend to be a very honest Leader of the Way Corps. Not that any else is stupid, just their questions. Once everyone's read the assigned reading from this incredible text, there won't be anymore questions, peace will reign and I can finish my next book, tentatively titled "The AfterGlow - Stories of How I Helped You", which won't be sold in any bookstore and will be offered by application only, by sending $12.95 U.S. to www.myretirmentaccount.com - Do it today before you forget, please. You'll be glad you did, at some point. Seriously ("is this thing on???") , I wish you good fortune. I get the sense you'd like to see something come out of what's left of the Way Internationale. Just don't plan on calling yourselves The Way Corps, as I think the Way International has sued anyone using the word Way in their name, titles, logos or websites and have become increasingly suspicious of all the "One Way" signs on streets everywhere which suddenly popped up RIGHT AFTER PFAL was filmed as if that's a coincidence yaknow, , and probably feel that they are the true spiritual owners of the word Corps, and have applications pending on the use of the word "The".

Are you thinking of the U.S. or Mexico or both/all? If it's Mexico, you might get more of a response on some of the other ex-Wayfer websites. Sounds like an interesting idea. Have you tried writing the Way International to see if they'd like to host a 2 or 3 day meeting to get this started? I'd be interested in seeing any response. Maybe they'll come down to Mexico to help everyone get back together. You'd think they'd want to, especially if someone else was doing all the planning, thinking and set up - you know, the "work".

My guess is - it takes 3 of their VP's to do the work of one part-time Temp worker. But that's just a guess. three's a lot - is that for backup? that way they always have a spare handy? Dunno.

Belle, I see a possible snappy acronym here - "LOGFODAT" Lady of God for our day and time! that's been the problem all along - We need a LOG! :D

I wanted to add themex - my take would be, don't try to reshuffle the Way deck to see who you should "follow" now. Of the names you mentioned, I'd say "none of the above". Why? Because you're just heading down the same path as before - looking for the man of God of our day and time. It would seem they come and go with the days. The only figure I know of that fills that spot in the Church is Jesus Christ. Whether hes' a figure of our imagination or real, it's Him. Putting a man in that place, or allowing one to take it, is bad for business. It's like an employee sitting in the Bosses chair, sending his secretary out for coffee and using his phone. Sooner or later the Boss is going to show up. It sounds unrealistic to choose The Lord, but it's not. I've found that any legitmate pastor of God's people will be too humbled by what they're charged with to place too much emphasis on themselves and their spot. Anyone honest enough to look inside themselves and see the truth will be careful in how they handle the things of God, most importantly His people. Their fellowship with you won't be based on getting you to follow them, or accepting it. My opinion, for what it's worth.

HI themex! I don't know where you're at really, what's your location, generally? I know nothing about the ministry's activities in Mexico these last 15 years or so. It sounds like you're looking for a place where your heart is at home. I can understand that. I don't know how close you are to other churches, or schools or how accessible they would be to you, but you might consider looking for some friendly faces in places where Christians gather. I don't worry myself about what we disagree on as much as I try to let what we agree on draw us together. Pastoring is different than teaching. Pastors of churches will certainly teach but the emphasis of someone working in a church as a pastor is going to be to help the people that come there, personally, one to one, face to face. I think a lot of chuches both big and small benefit from men and women who feel they have that calling and who have some training in doing it. You might consider checking some out, and give it some time. If you feel a void because there's no one to teach fellowships like they did in the Way fellowships, consider this - in the U.S. fellowships I know a lot of us got together and sat around teaching and hearing the same things over and over again. It's good to hear things from the bible that encourage us, yes. It's also good to look out to your community and see what you can do with what you know, what you can do that God is saying in the bible that we should do - help the weak, the sick. The elderly, those without any help at hand. Those people may never see any God but the one you bring to them and show them, by doing for them what God would want done. God heals - bring healing. God loves - bring love. God encourages - encourage. God listens - listen. God forgives. For people that have no forgiveness even for themselves, you may be the one to display the sacrifice of Jesus to them. Who knows? It's kind of exciting, and a little goes a long way. :)

Actually, that's all I had to post. Free free to continue with the topic as you see fit.

That's what counts, isn't it act2? You know what it means to you and it's a good thing. :) What can be bad about that? Nuttin'! Things like that, and what they mean to us, are comforting reminders to us. I like stuff like that. It's like at Christmas, all the ornaments, the stuff we pack up and drag out ever year, it's so cool. I love it. The house fills with thoughts of years past, thick with memories that go all the way back to our first memories as kids. It's a good time of year. To me, that's the way all this terminology stuff shakes out. Hopefull, you know what you mean, what you're intent is. In prayer time I often dwell on "Christ in me" and, working from a blank slate, let the images fill my thoughts at their own pace. My own efforts have been to see God less as someone "out there" and more as someone "here". Not trying to reach Him but to accept being with Him. Jesus said "he that's seen me has seen the Father". I feel that as I dwell on considering Jesus the man, the guy, the redeemer who lived, I have a point at which to proceed into the here and now and what He is to me now. Most of the time I'm dweedling along, living, doing what I have to do the best way I can muster. The private time I have for these things is refreshing, relaxing. Hopefully it informs the rest of my life and actions as I go.

Yeah, that's a great album, d-man. I still see some of those old Bugs around the left coast, plucking along. JL, what brand of harps do you use? I see different ones, don't know what makes one better than the other really. I guess the water makes them go shlu-fargh better and they get that gurgly distorted sound. I used to do that, although I'm not a harp player by any means. I got one of those chromatic harps, with the slider to expand the scale, when I was about 12 and muddled around with that but all I was trying to do was get it to sound like Jimmy Reed's harp and couldn't do it. Finally went to the Marine band model and used to sort of schwack away at that. I play the Bob Dylan method, find a spot and blow and suck till it does something. (figuratively speaking) I'm amazed at you players that make it sound so cool. Music - anyone heard of a band named "The Meat Purveyors"? They sound like a bluegrass band, heard a few tunes of theirs online. They sounded pretty good. I think it's two couples, the songs I heard had a female singer. They do a Madonna medley, and the songs are changed around. One of the sections has the lyrics of "Like a Virgin" and it sounds hilarious, very ingenious. ---sorry about the sig thing A la. I think I changed it again. It's posting-on-the-cheap. Prine's the MAN!

Mark, I wanted to say on the quote of the pope on the plane - personally I found the quote interesting from a different perspective, if disconnected from the question about 9/11. For the pope it offered a pastoral opportunity, which may have been how he answered it. As a politician, the pope's response didn't really answer yes or no but I doubt he was concerned with that specifically at the time. He also may have felt he didn't know the answer. That being the case the I would suspect any answer he would give has to deal with the Catholic view of how God works, what He does, why, and how. But really the answer rang true to me in a different way. We live in a world where so many people all claim to know exactly what "God" is thinking about nearly everything. Clear cut answers on everything abound from people who say they're absolutely sure about whatever it is, no question about it, because they know how God Views It. His answer - it's not an easy thing to know God's intentions - resonates against that in a way that I would say is both true and very "Catholic" in that recognizing the limitations of ourselves when compared to the whole of "God" immediately puts us in a humbled position, recognizing that if God is who we make Him out to be, we may not have hands-on experience with knowing His mind, as if it were the back of our hand so to speak. People have the capacity to do evil, we know that. We can dream up all kinds of bad things and do them to ourselves and each other for no other reason than we decide that's what we want to do. We can credit or blame the god of our making. 9/11 shows that. His answer interested me. My answer would be "why drag God into this?" His answer moves ever so slighly in that direction, to me anyway.