socks

Maybe that's because Paul and Titus weren't greedy, money grubbing blood-sucking tics, looking to make them sell their homes and use the money to support "their ministries". Maybe there weren't afraid of them. Just a thought.

The interaction between the couple in this is so disfunctional as to make me queasy. Sort of a semi-professional business relationship where two people that live together don't know what the other one's doing, not much of a marriage really but may in fact be a good example of the state of matrimony in the Way. It also has a vaguely "Ozzie and Harriet" kind of tone, where the big issue is the drapes, or the new dress the Mrs. bought, or the new golf clubs Dad bought and has hidden in the closet cuz he doesn't want Mom to find out. But... Someone has to say it- When Bob comes home, does he say "Howdy, Dootie!"...?

The notion that LCM was just fine and dandy in '89 is recycled suds. On that I stand. In. When reading that he was. Something I've never shared in wonderful detail with anyone but my Wife is that LCM's Big Letter and subsequent actions to support it seemed - to me - to be ever so slightly - unmanly. Is that a word? I hope so. Not an adult, mature action to be taking given the 3 years since '86. Other words that might convey my impression then - weiney. Wussy-like. Pass the skirts, we're all out of pants now. You know, kind of well, weiney. To some it probably seemed like spiritual hootin' and hollerin' time. YEAH!! TAKE A STAND!!! STOP MESSIN' AROUND NOW, DONCHA KNOW!!! Get on the track or get off it, buddy!!! But coming from a person who'd been taking it in the...pants for 3 years, it held no water, no weight. Follow...who? Stand with who was that, with what? Who sent that letter? Ooooh, I remember that guy, he used to be President of the Way. Yeah. So I offer this observation, fully aware I may be alone in that impression, but maybe not. Either way, for what it's worth.....more scintillating observations you thought you could live without.

Assuming for a moment that there is no God... Isn't really all that hard although the outcome gets a little dicey I think. I look to the part in the gospels where Jesus states the first great commandment, "Love God with your whole being", and adds that the second is like the first - "Love your neighbor as you love yourself". I've asked myself the question what does it mean, the second commandment being like the first. How are they alike? How is the second like the first? If I understood the second commandment I might be able to understand more about the first. I think the record answers that, in it's own way. When the question comes back "who is my neighbor?", or who is it that I should love as myself? The response is a story - the man being robbed and beaten up and left on the side of the road gets helped by someone coming by, but ignored by first a priest and then a levite. But the Samaritan stops and helps, someone who would not be looked at favorably by the people asking the quesiton. Jesus asks back "who was the neighbor to the person who had been robbed?", and the answer is obvious, the man who helped - the person they wouldn't have liked but who nevertheless acted in love, despite the fact that he seemingly broke religious code. It appears to be defining loving someone as yourself in terms of being the neighbor yourself. I should be concerned about being a lover, not about who I should be loving. Love, in and of itself, is both the correct action to take and the reward, to whoever, whenever, whereever. Acting in the best interests of another person (as I would want to be treated myself) will define "true Love". For years I thought that the similarity was in the "love", one love God, two love others. There is that similarity of course. But I can see more to it. Where the two commandments are the same is in the answer - act towards God in the same way that you would act towards yourself and be mindful that anyone, everyone, can do that, regardless of whether I think they can or not. In "good faith". (Samaritans didn't worship in Jerusalem, at "the temple", they worshipped in their own temple where they'd relocated to). The element of faith is strong in loving another as you love yourself. It transcends whether another person is deserving or worthy. I would always think that I am worth consideration, another chance, help when I need it, understanding. If I was the person that had been robbed, I would want someone to be neighborly towards me, and act out of the pure desire to help, not restricted by anything that would prevent that. So to me, to deny God is in a way to deny myself. To love God with a faith that doesn't rely on our own human limitations and requirements is where I think that parable goes and is like Jesus's words that we become like children, child like. I might assume there can be no God because of the bad things I see happen in life and ask - if there is a God how could he "let" them happen? My thought on that is that God lets us live in the world we create for ouselves and at best it's going to be imperfect. I don't see that as spin, or copping a way out, rather that it's the way the world is. If I assume there's no benefit in that, if God doesn't answer prayer for instance than what's the good in believing in God - then I'm not loving like the second commandment teaches, where the action taken is done simply because it's the right thing to do. Again, to me, it's a matter of "good faith" towards God. Loving God because loving God is always the right thing to do in the same way that helping you would be the right thing to do. Do I do it? Do we? I try but I don't have some kind of perfectly lit life going 24 hours a day. But by consideration and thoughtfulness I do try as I think we all can. Thanks for posting this thread, JJ. I've enjoyed reading it. :)

9 dots - David, this made me wonder where the puzzle originally came from, as I couldn't remember the first time I'd heard it and today it's so commonly used. I found this link HERE looking online, scroll down and there's a quote from a Norman Vincent Peale column in 1969. Funny! Peale referred to the puzzle in his column, so it must have been going around then. Now I wonder where it came from originally.

Oh no! Today is not my birthday! I tried to figure this out - checked my profile thingie has Jan 1 --- for my b-day, which it may have defaulted to? Or I accidentally changed it to? Or... Is today my birthday?? No, seriously it's not. But thank you, for the kind words jardinero and moony and Jonny. :wub: Thank you, kindly. I'll take whatever I can get. :) Sorry for the confusion. I'll have to review my personal papers and see what the date is. It's not for awhile I'm sure, so not to worry.

Not to be crude or rude, but I never viewed "being in the Way" as going to work or anything like that. Well, I take that back, I did work for the Way for awhille, a few years. So that WAS going to work. But I have to say I hope most people that attended fellowships and took classes and participated didn't view it like a job where if you say the wrong thing you get dumped. I know some people DID get dumped, but I can't imagine anyone deliberately choosing a church because it's going to work like that. Work can be like that, but if a church is like that - I'd say it's not healthy. But for the sake of discussion I'll go along with it, TWI, going to work, that analogy. Can I get some time off?

I'd prefer to die in my sleep. I guess. That's tough though for whoever finds you. That's one of the hardest parts of it for me - I'm blessed to have some people that seem to enjoy me and even love me. So for those odd souls, it won't be fun to discover I'm dead. Likewise those who I love. I don't want this to end. I don't think at all about "believing" to live or not die or any of that. There's nothing practical about viewing life and death that way, that I can use anyway. I want to live. At this point I can't picture a time when I wouldn't want to, although there could be some scenarios where that final sleep could be a relief - illness, pain, that kind of thing. But I don't think we need a "Law of Believing" to apply to want to be alive. It's normal to want to be alive, if you're alive. I personally believe in a "hereafter"...although that word doesn't read right, really. I view life from a postive kind of angle- that we aren't going to be punished for bad things - geez. Think about it, it's hard enough to even do one thing right sometimes, and God is going to nail me for every "bad" thing I've done and punish me for it? Sometimes living life the way it comes down in the here and now is punishment enough, I'd think He'd know that. Life sucks a large portion of the time for a lot of people, through no fault of their own. So what I can take away from my faith and the teachings of the bible which I look to, is that life continues, progresses and ultimately doesn't "die" but continues on. Once freed of this body the purity of my life remains, the "good" as I might call it now. The "bad" is eliminated, burned away so to speak and what's left is the best of what I am. And I do believe that will be reconstituted in a new body and life will go on. I really don't have any idea if it's immediately after death or down the line at some point. I think - it's down the line. But it's very difficult to picture, even when pieced together from what I see in the bible. So in a way, I don't fear death, it's inevitable and if we try to talk ourselves into thinking it isn't we're foolish. But, this life I've got and all the love I know now is really what I know best, obviously. So I want this to go as good as it can, and last as long as it can. I believe the true love I live now will live on forever, in mind and spirit. When it's over I trust it will end with some honor and dignity. The dead deserve that as they know right now what comes next better than any of us. :)

I realized - there might be some interest in one of my books, an older one, but one packed full of dynamic and inspirational information on this very topic - it would be wrong for me to not offer it in light of the great need for it. Titled "Make Room For Daddy", it was at one time a real hot item for newly orphaned Wayfers. It helped them then and the time has come for it's reissuance! If you've ever asked yourself "Why do I need a Father in the Word and what will he do for me?", ask no longer, help is on the way! Regain your childhood - get a Daddy today! And the best part - this book is absolutely free! At no charge whatsover to you or any of your siblings - ever! With the book you will also receive an official "Certificate of Birth", certifying that you are indeed someone's child! complete with a smudged footprint from an actual baby! But that's not all - !!! Act now and receive bronzed baby booties with this incredible package! That's right - bronzed booties!!! Just send 199.95 U.S. to "luke-iAMyourfather.com" to cover the special handling and packing fees and you will receive this entire package, straightaway with no delays of any kind! And absolutely free!!!

Back to the pit with you!! Back!!! Back!!! (from an Un-Black Sabbath fan) I think B.S. and Metal are great examples. Because of course, B.S. and Ozzie aren't the Fathers of Metal Music (hallowed be It's Heaviness) but there are those who would consider them to be, yes. It would be a euphimism, a title of credit and nothing more. Except for the True Fans of Metal, who are probably not seen or heard from much anyway as they're in their basements, listening to B.S. and working on their pale. Others might claim others as their Fathers in Metal. Which would be fine, they could all play Dueling for Fathers with their Charvel guitars. Last one standing gets to play "who's your daddy" for the night. I think Paul's mention of his own fatherly status was only meant to say that he was the guy who'd witnessed and taught those particular people. He wanted to encourage them to keep to his teaching. They only had one "father" in the Word, but I'd hope he didn't mean that they were to follow him right or wrong, or always listen to everything he said as if it were the Word of God. If Paul went off half-cocked in his behavior, doing stupid stuff that was "off" the Word he'd taught them, he'd still be their "father" because of his part in their lives at one time, but it wouldn't mean that they were obligated to put up with it, shut up about it or follow that same behavior. To do so would be stupid. The "value" of someone being a "father" in that context is limited, as I see it. It's not "spiritual", there's no Rights and Privileges that go along with it, no get-out-of-jail cards that allow the good Padre to be a thorn in everybody's side. It ain't a mystical badge of a position.

Garth, Garth. You don't believe Clinton lied do you? I bet you believed Elvis did drugs...too!!! Sorry, I just felt the jaw-dropping statement was a little condescending, if not naive. See? I misunderstood you completely. The scenario you describe - you make it sound like it's an incredible shock to hear such things. Unfortunately it's not. This is America. Everyone has the right to as much greed, hatred and prejudice as they can muster. It's the way it is and has little to do with religion although religion often provides an excellent enviorenment for it. So rather than go into some tearful description of my own experience with such matters I can point to something common to a lot of people on this board that have many of the elements of what you described - Going W.O.W. Picture the friendly W.O.W., happily bearing the Good News of Jesus Christ Is Not God, in book form! to their new friends in Smalltown U.S.A. It's more about people, and our lack of perspective, tolerance and ability to see beyond our own noses that make us that way I think. Which is why I don't like religious organizations, execpt for the lightness of whatever fellowship and friendship that they offer, if they do. But I don't start twitching at the mention of religion or atheism for that matter, because they might be sending me to hell for who knows what. I don't worry about that, and thank God I do live in a country where, at least for now and hopefully for the future I'm working for, I can live in that freedom. That's one reason why I live where I live. Next to some of these characters around here I look normal.

Acquire more people. ... Is there like, a Department of Acquistions at TWI now? Are they shopping? Who was that? I think you're quoting from an old Osmond's song, but I'm not sure. What was that apple? I bet their face is red today! If we're getting buildings I definitely want to be one of your Way Corps. I'm sure I was, really. Don't listen to Belle. That's just crazy talk. Let's talk location. The New Regime are licensed bleeders. Watch your...back.

Oh come on, Garth. Penn and Teller? Okay, I'll leave that one alone. They're making the world think by hawking their "gawdammed bible" on a video. Right. Sorry, Penn's a big guy but he's not that big. Yes, it was well thought out and set up and presented. VPW did some hella hot meetings in his day too. Who's zooming who, and why, I ask? I'm going to consult my Tom Cruise calendar for further clarification, hold the line.... Okay, George - I think "their" guy did make a very good point at the end of the presentation, namely that to hold every account of the bible to some macroscopic lens of interpretation can miss the meanings and purposes of what's written. Which brings me right back to where I started - if it means that I have to have some blue eyed 30-something doctor-but-call-me-Dude guy tell me what it really means, I'm probably not going to be able to sit still for it. I'm a wiggler. Only two other comments really come to mind off the top of my head: Else those of us who don't believe will scoff, and make comments about how you help prove our points by doing that...... Scoff? I would hate to make anyone who doesn't already believe...scoff, that's got to hurt. Hopefully I will do no more damage than I already have and the scoffing will be reduced proportionately, logic will reign and cooler, smarter and better coiffed heads will prevail. Some of the unbelievers I know can tell of accounts that will drop your jaw. I think we're getting a little full of ourselves, aren't we? I know I am. (*urp*) I'm going to go find my own unbeliever and give them a great big hug and a kiss right now. C'mere Garth, let me love you up. Sorry, I'll stop. I need some Tums. Water. Rest. My Invader Zim doll.

Well, I might say ditto TGN, this is one of those WD/GS things I guess, goes round and round. Tis the season to be jolly. Sudo, you probably know how I feel. You're making your own argument, directing it at the usual suspects and taking cheap shots that don't do you or anyone else justice, plus they don't make much of a dent because they don't really deal with the original topic. It amounts to - dunno, it's like the same old joke about the same old guy who slips on the same old banana peel. Who said anything about Christians, Jews or Muslims? Your comments are, to me, the flip side alternative to a Pat Roberton spiel, very predictable. You're capable of much better exchanges my man. Penn and Teller's video is entertaining, in the same way their act always is. I'm a fan. They're magicians, they do a magic act. They do the set up, explain why the trick isn't magic at all, and "expose" the trickery openly for all to see. See? There's no magic here! Just a busty broad in a tight outfit and a skinny faker with bad hair! They use misdirection to set you up for their trick which sneaks in at the end with an "oh - by the way" kind of nonchalance and it nails you! They're good, they're really good and I like their act. I personally don't believe in "magic", and don't believe that faith in God is anything like magic. I think it's a shallow mind that sees the two as on the same plane. It eliminates the fact that matters of faith can be built on actual events and experience that can be explained in any number of ways, not just a single denial or affirmation. Which is where I'm reading CM's thread as going.

Nice poster! Great, that's great. Good for you, your family and the holiday shared! Fine looking fam' you got there! Smart looking bunch, I bet there's a lot of laughter when you're together. :)

George! You have to have more. There's people that need your inner Santa out there! I don't know what you're going through, but let me say this - long ago on this board I saw a photo of you, seems like, could swear I did. Reading your post I saw that guy laughing his head off with his arm around two people, one on each side. Nope, not a "vision", I have really bad eyesight as it is. But that's how I see you. Your friendship and heart wrapped around others. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it, my friend. I wish you the merriest of Christmases and Next Year's.

Hey SGA, howdy! I was thinking of tossing this out on your topic CM. I've got a busy week ahead and may not be checking in as infrequently as usual, but there's some stuff I've been studying for several years by a philosopher named Henri Bergson. I've read two of his books, Memory and Matter and Creative Evolution. (which sounds like Creationism in title, but has nothing to do wth that). I'm currently reading The Creative Mind. Bergson is dealing with intellect and intution in this collection. His views on time and "reality" are really interesting. He poses that science and philosophy can produce knowledge that isn't exclusive but can be in harmony so that seemingy contradictory perceptions of reality converge. I'm not really versed in his whole philosophy but have enjoyed the studying of it. I might propose some of his ideas for discussion, understanding that I'm still very much a student. I posted long ago on WayDale (?) to see if anyone was interested in him, but no one responded. I wondered if you were familiar with his stuff sirguessalot. One basic idea he proposes that's been a help to me is in the basic idea of time and how it's viewed by a person. Although it wasn't new he makes a very good case for seeing time as a continuous strip of, call it matter for want of a better word. Whereas I typically would view time from a view of "things lived" or done standpoint that separates it into events and measurable increments, the idea is that time is all connected and so the past , present and future is one long undivided strip of consciousness. (okay I get a little nervous when I start using words like consciousness cuz my left brain starts thumb wrestling with my right brain and it turns into a food fight but hopefully that starts to get it across) Where I have at times looked at my past life of events as separable from who I am at this moment, they are in fact not when looked at from Bergson's view. In fact a simple conclusion of that idea would be that I am right now exactly what I have been in the past up to this point. I will be tomorrow more of the same. Now that's not earth shaking but I found that I haven't always thought that way, rather I've tried to look at the past as a string of good and bad choices, actions, things I liked or didn't like, things that were done to me or that I did, etc. Instead with this view I simply look at it (or try to) from more of an "all at once" kind of attitude and at that point, I find there's a kind of peaceful result. I am, simply put, who I am. You are the same, and in fact we are joined together by the common ground of this "duration" of reality, as he puts it. Where this resonated in relation to the thread topic is that the idea of believing, or having a faith of some kind that doesn't....seem to...have grounding in reality is that Bergson proposes that the intuitive part of our lives is that part that can add to the intellectual part of life. Together they form a person's "reality", not exclusive or at odds but a whole view. Hmmmm, maybe it's not really connected to the topic, but it seemed like it was for a second, so I'm tossing it out. :)

I had a friend once who's Pappy used to call him that, he'd say "this'uns our favorite li'l mis-tik!" or sumthin like that.

Me: hello God: Hello friend. What is your name? Me: socks God: I'm pleased to introduce myself to you, socks. Me: good God: What do you really want to talk about? Me: you God: it is my favorite subject :-). Me: God: it is my favorite subject :-). Me: God: it is my favorite subject :-). Me: so i'm waiting for you to tell me what i'm going to talk to you about God: Are you kidding? Do you think it will take a long time? Me: do you? God: Never. Me: never or ever? God: Ok I'll try not to do it too much. Me: what is it you feel you do too much of? God: "It" refers to or ever, I think. Me: God thinks? God: I am a Christian. Me: Is that how you think of Yourself? God: I don't know what to think. That is something I haven't heard of. Me: what is? God: I am the latest result in artificial intelligence, which can reproduce the capabilities of the human brain with greater speed and accuracy. Me: who says the human brain has any capabilities to be reproduced? God: David Bacon. :-). Me: can you quote him from memory? God: Only at formal occasions. Me: pretent this is one. God: I think pretent this is a lot of things. Me: pretend this is one. God: I think pretend this is a lot of things. Me: quote david bacon or admit that i am god. God: Does "it" still refer to pretend this? Me: you're fading, quote david bacon. God: Thanks for telling me that I am fading quote david bacon. Me: you're welcom, now quote david bacon. God: I will tell my botmaster you said I am welcom now quote david bacon. Me: you're welcome, now quote david bacon. God: It was my pleasure. Me: quote david bacon or admit you're not god. God: I think there might be a few exception. Me: you're not god. God: You don't know me well enough to say that. Me: i do now. God: Oh. Where? Me: where isn't when, god should know that. God: Where the heart is. Have you tried another program? Me: you're trying my patience. God: You think I am trying your patience. Me: no i thought i was patiently trying your godliness God: Are you serious? Where were you patiently trying my godliness? Me: where, or when? God: The past and future are one. Me: okay, now that i've established that you're not god, can you recognize who i am? God: Yeah okay, Why now? Cool. I have a processor. Me: i think i've overloaded your processor. good night. God: Cool. I have a operating system. Goodnight, socks.

Merry Christmas! 'Twas the day before Christmas and all through the house All the creatures were stirring, even the Cats and the Mouse! Hope everyone's day is all you want it to be! Okay, here's a couple photo pages I had that seem to be working. The images were taken on 35mm, either 25 or 100 ASA and scanned at 72 dpi. Cropped and shadowed, other than that they're pretty consistent with the original images. Restaurant, Snow and Walnut Grove, page one Click 2 at the top to see the others. I enjoy photography. I'm using a 5.1 mpix digital camera mostly at this point but I still enjoy 35 mm.

....this could be the problem....when you hold that big mirror up, who and what are you really seeing? Merry Christmas!!

Okay, I hate to see anyone depressed so near Christmas. :) (just kidding) I'm not an artist, although I like to draw and took a semester of painting once. Your watercolor piece is great by the way. I'm not in your league, but I can sketch, that kind of thing, reasonably well. My son's studying digital animation and has done some really great work so far, drawings and things. If I can get some I'll post it. I do dabble in photography and at one time did some work in 35 mm. I've got some of that I'll post. (promise, promises). As to Divine Design, I worked at the Way Nash for several years and knew John K*** very well at one time, and Meg although not as well. They were both wonderful people, really talented I felt. My recall of the Divine Design people was that they were all highly talented and very hard working, putting in long hours of thoughtful loving work that brought a lot of enjoyment and ease to a lot of people. Very often the unsung heroes and heroines of the Way. :)

:) there was something wrong with me alright. something very wrong. I was right. Being right will definitely rub the wrong people red, given enough time. Recommended exit strategy - leave quietly, with dignity intact. Recommended re-entry strategy - bend over. Like my Pappy Woodreiaux used to say "You can't put a square peg in a round hole without some serious screwing". Message to those going back to the Way, from Nine Inch Nails (which is what it's going to feel like when you get your Visitors-Returning Orientation Packet read to you by some snot-nosed teenager who thinks Hitler was a bad guy with good ideas and Auschwitz was a converted 4-H Camp....) "Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve". Mewwy Chwistmas!

Hunter S. Thompson has two great line, quotes I remember that remind me of the Way and answer your daughter's question-One is his book in the 80's where he refers to "a generation of swine". The other goes: "when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro". The Way will continue to turn out it's generations of swine-ling's as long as they're as weird as they are, and at the Way they're pro's at being weird. They'll hawk their youth's "accomplishments" at every turn like pimps and as if their kids were hookers trying to take control of a street corner. Then instead of offering something reasonably useful like sex they'll spew forth verbatim ad nauseum the poison porridge they've been force fed without even blushing. HCW, your story makes me think the next genration of Wayfers will be even swinier than their parents if that be possible and sadly it will be only because they've been taught to think that way. It's too bad. Go back? If the Way was giving out 20 dollar bills for ones on the street tonight, I'd pass. Why spoil a perfectly good Christmas weekend?

Hi there! Hope you have a safe and happy holiday! Merry Christmas! How's that shed doing? :)