socks

Well, I do appreaciate that! I'm a decent student at best, but I appreciate that ma'am. And I've got things going but I'm the drag in the butt on JL's songs, almost have 3 finished for him. I tore my studio up and switched it right to left since I play right handed but do everything else leftie. So now it's in more of a wrap around design that doesn't tilt to the wrong side, something I finally realized a month or so ago. (don't ask - it's not worth trying to explain it ) and back in working order this last week. So I'm about to mix that one and a couple others started. JL's been patient. I'd be interested in hearing more about Berklee diazbro. Never been there. My daughter's finishing her first year at M.I. in Hollywood and I've been down to visit a few times. That place is a true slice of heaven, although the curriculum is challenging to say the least. Every instructor is extremely versitle in their field, and the student body is very diverse. I had a few semesters of harmony theory, composition and one odd orchestartion class years ago, and have taken some lessons and workshops over the years. That Gretsch does have a classic sound. I keep it on the wall most of the time, use it to record a little. I've got D'Addario Flat Wounds on it, .011 - .050. Round fat sound. The neck is very slender, easy to navigate. I take the same approach - pretty much a utilitarian view of instruments. Growing up it took a long time before I had a decent guitar and I just tried to learn how to make what I had do what I wanted. Strat was my first good guitar, used and rented. Finally turned that over for a Telecaster in about '65 or so and I was hooked. Went to an LP gold top after that, and got hooked again. Right now the Fernandes Dragonfly has everything I want, a Strat pickup design and their Sustainer unit built into the neck pickup. The body's chambered with a maple top. I had the headstock saddle replaced and the action worked on, and have spent a lot of time messing with the vibrato setup. Right now it's pretty much what I want. It's got honk, smooth tones, a nice range. Which is funny as D-Flys are normally associated with shredding but this guitar has a lot of nice sound. For gigs I've used the Fernandes and Takamine. Now the Tele will give me a little more range and a backup. Amps - I've got a Lab Series Spider 2x10. I couldn't afford the Lab Series Chorus I want, but this little guy's bi-amped, has a decent chours and models pretty well. Has a 4 channel switcher and it's got a very good clean Fender Twin setting, and a dead on Marshall sound. For bass I have a Sunn top and a bassman bottom. I've got some Yamaha models and effects in my deck, but I pretty much try to get the sound I want thru a preamp setup that goes into it and then record that with as clean a signal as I can get. Got the girl a Toneworks AX3000 pedal board for Christmas. That puppy does LOTS of fun things. Aw Chatty, that's the stuff! The Man. Hmmmm....tell us you still have it! :)

Ditto! And acoustics too of course, classical/nylon....all kinds!

Thanks satori. The Tele is Korean. At the time I was looking at getting a Tele of some kind and when I played one of these I was surprised as it was a Fender but a Tele/not a Tele. Biggest surprise - it has a set neck, not a bolt on. The one at the Guitar Center had been abused by the armies of guitarists that come through everyday but I really liked the way it played and sounded. So I started checking aournd, found one and got it. The finish was perfect, and it plays true. I may have the headstock bridge changed out but I'm not sure. I like it the way it is at this point. I'm casting around for a Gibson 175, don't know when that's going to happen but I'm looking. JL, don't sweat it! Those EMG pickups - frankly I don't think of myself as a real techie type either as I know guys who can rattle off years, serial numbers and debate manufacturers of plate screws like it's nothing. I think the thing I've always liked about Fenders is that Leo Fender designed and built an affordable and fairly simple guitar in his first Esquire/Tele's that would be mass producable. I've read he and Les Paul met in L.A., and discussed designs and sound, and even considered working together at that point. The biggest thing they were concerned with was the sound and they felt the ideal sound to pursue was that of a pedal steel - clear, full bodied, bright. Fender went that way with his first guitars. It's no surprise that a lot of the unique string-benders like Roy Buchanan, Danny Gatton, Jim Campilongo and many others have chosen the Telecaster. The Strats continued that design concept. Teles and Strats have a very machine-shop feel to them, something a shade-tree mechanic with a few tools and some patience could deal with. Pop the pick guard off and everything's right there, pickups, volume and tone pots, wiring. Want a new neck. Not that big a deal. Strats have been used for every kind of music and playing style. Red ones - I read Mark Knopfler used to play only red ones! Here's a link I found on EMG strat replacement pickups - might be those. http://www.mikelull.com/pickups/emgsc.htm

Speaking of praise, I started a thread in Open for guitar stuff. We need to hear more about the red Strat, and the white one! and all of them!

Hey diazbro, I hear you on the L.P's and 335's. I've had both, my main guitar for years was a gold top L.P. Nice guitar, wish I still had it. I had a 335 in 77, then it got lost on a plane flight in Chicago O'Hairy airport. :( Got 700 bucks for it, but hopefully it's still out there somewhere. :) These are my main guitars at this point - http://ruzicmusic.com/ruzic_guitars.htm I've also got an Ibanez 560 with the Floyd Rose trem, although it's not very photogenic, only good for certain stuff and a bass or two floating around. The Fender Tele LE is my latest, got it last year. It's not a "true" Tele, but I played on at the Guitar Center in Hollywood and really liked the neck and slim body. It's got Fender's double coils, with a coil splitter to go to single on each. They're very much like Dimarzios. I have it strung with .010 - .052. Plays nice, solid, very dependable with a nice range of sounds.

Jonny Lingo and diazbro got a thing going on another thread about guitars. JL's checking out a red Strat and diazbro added this sweet post, I'm adding them below. Figured a guitar thread is sorely missing, so here goes, as in anything goes. I know we have some guitarists in the gang, so don't be shy.

Me no terminated. Didn't get fired. Left on my own two feet, brain and spirit intact. Still are, just checked. But - I'm going to have to dive in here and get my butt-whuppin' cuz I got one comin', so slap my hiney and call me Judy, but... I "believe" - no I think, I like that word more better - that there was always good in the Way at every point. Okay, there were some valleys, flooded valley-times, yes. Dips in the cycle that would give Lance Armstrong a stiff neck. But good was there. Why what good was that, asked Snorky as Tink sat down? I walked away with this in mind and hand - that one thing I would always have would be the people I knew and worked with, to carry in heart and mind, forever. Or at least until I got some better friends. Hasn't happened. As gooder as the oldies okay, but no better. There were some of the nicest, most caring, hardest working, understanding, sharing, funny people I've ever known. People there for whatever reasons - "the truth", to "serve God", or just to just get out of the dammed storm of the world for awhile and not get their butts kicked everytime they turned around....y'know, "decent folks". Some of you. ALL of you, right? GS has all the good ones, we know that. :) You were there, you were doing whatever it was you were doing and actually felt that you were making something happen, something good. So now if it all turns out to be a pipedream and a colossal waste of precious time, I maintain that you and I still have what we brought to the table and what we invested is worth a lot. Our lives, our time, our work, our love. Maybe it would have been better spent somewhere else - but it wasn't totally wasted becasuse life of any kind, for even a moment, is the most precious thing we can have. When it's all gone, there ain' no more. That's not to be taken lightly. In this graceless world we live in, there was grace in the people I knew, if only for a time. Some simple honor and dignity. Maybe we swum against the tide and didn't know we going to get swept out to the deep till it happened - but if you're still here, congrats. Everyday we wake up and swear at the alarm clock is a GOOD day. Sorry for getting schmatzy but for me - that's a big part of the good. People were trying to take what they were learning and live it. I have respect for that today.

SWEET! JL!! Strat's - they're good ferya! ON Back Yeah, what kind of pickups, any idea? Strats are great for tricking out. Go for it! Just make sure the neck's straight - eyeball that puppy from the body end, with the headstock pointing away and sight down the left and right side of the neck at the fretboard - it looks like a little railroad track with the frets. It should have a very slight bow, but not much and be the same when you sight the left and right sides. Fender has some good info on the instrument set up if you want to get an idea of what's involved - http://www.fender.com/support/setup/stratsetup.php

I sense no persecution but felt it wouldn't be a decent thread without a completely off-topic comment. Although, if the Perc's started posting on one thread - would everyone there eventually persecute everyone else? Or would it just end up as one long "yeah, you're right"....."yup, that's the truth"....."sure, I'm with you on that".....................although that sounds kind of familiar anyway, board-wise. But now that I think about it, it seems like if anyone posted on this thread for it's purpose, it would be very weird. Maybe it should start with a declaration or affirmation of some sort, like: "Hello, my name is (---) and I've been posting on GS for (----) and I have a perception of being persecuted. Thank you for listening to me, but would you please stop blinking that way as it makes me feel like you're putting me down and calling me stupid and my uncle used to do that when I was 12. But I digress, thank you for listening to me, even though I know you're really laughing behind my back and will start threads to torment me but I'm bigger than that, so there!!!" Can we get that up somewhere? I can't talk though, I never start threads. I should start a thread and stop all this dilly dallying around. I'm giving it some serious thought.

And just to show you I'm on your side CK - Chris Geer- the worst. I've got reasons, rock solid ones - 1.) He looked terrible in a cowboy hat, but wore one at times. Terrible doesn't do justtice. Like - picture the Rocky era Sylvester Stallone in a beanie. That bad. 2.) After living in Europe for a year or so he developed an accent, an effected articulation that sounded vaguely British at times. Just a little, but a little of that goes a long way. Y'know mate? 3.) P.O.P - after "W.A.P." the worst acronym ever to come out of the Way. A different title would have helped, like "Stuff I Say Is True"...."S.I.S.I.T"....it's got legs. Didn't he know we'd be using the acronym 20 years later on the internet? Somebody's cookie jar was leaking. 4.) He produced his own version of PFAL and franchised it, allowing for ex-Wayfers everywhere to have the ability to hear everything they'd already heard dozens of times, and pay for it again. And again. And again. Makes Enron look like a non-profit. Although brief, I rest my case.

CK - when you're ready - WW is A-right and on target. Download Firefox. Use Google. Feel the love.

Okaaaaaay. Can I come out now? Airwaves and money. The Way wouldn't have stood to make much, IMO. There were some radio broadcasts done, and some videos shown here and there but nothing that stuck. "High Country Caravan" was another effort made with an eye to dipping a toe into the media pond but it never took off. One reason - the Way didn't really know how to market cross-media. Remember - PFAL was originally done in a version directed by VPW himself. He wanted to do it all in house for various reasons including the costs. (I saw parts of it in '69 after it had been done a second time, that he showed in a summer school meeting. It was pretty rough, amateurish.) In '67 PFAL was filmed again professionally with much better results. The Way still did a lot of it's own prep work and VPW referred in the class to "the Art Department" which wasn't really there, although I suppose it could be interpreted "vision" or even a euphimism. The Way sunk most of it's resources into property - the Way Nash in New Knoxville, the New Bremen church, Emporia, the Sidney House, Rome City and then Tinny, N.M. Staff, salaries, equipment, maintenance, upkeep, etc. To mount a decent radio or TV drive would have taken deep dinero, tall dough. The High Country Caravan videos were promoted some, but at the time the only hope of a major syndication would have been for someone to pick them up and produce them for the Way, picking up the tab. That would have meant doing a deal with a secular company or network. No deal there, babeee. I do remember VPW talking about not "selling out". Whether there were ever any deals on the table to consider, I don't know. Never heard of any serious offers but there may have been. Craig - no idea. Not to ride a horse down that's already been put away wet more times than a dirty diaper but I doubt Craig would have really had the leadership skills to know how to pull it off, let alone the technical and professional skills to navigate those waters. IMO. It would have likely turned into another financial debacle to drain finances, lose money and break the spirits of anyone that worked on it, saw it, heard of it or even knew about it, and then been cause to blame, mark and avoid the innocents that had worked to make it happen but who had been unable to warn him in advance it wouldn't work - who would have been kicked out for saying so anyway, if they had. IMO.

Thanks. They "help" but only in confusing me more. There's a lot of things being said on these links. Are you just taking the Google search and posting any link that has something bad to say about him? Which are true, in your opinion? All? If so, why? Some of the things being said are very ambiguous. Like this one - http://atruechurch.info/graham.html Some of that as it's held forth is hogwash. The lamest point goes- Graham is popular. Graham admits he's popular and gives examples. Jesus said Woe to you when men speak well of you, for so did their fathers to the false prophets So Graham is a false prophet. That's just the rookiest twist of that verse I've seen. The bit about Graham advocating murder because he can see abortion being allowable under certain circumstances - makes him sound like he advocates abortion across the board. He doesn't. They also go on to add "abnormalitites" and make it sound like Graham wants to abort and/or kill the blind and deaf - which is pretty weird as they're the ones defining certain people as "abnormal".... He doesn't and if they're going to make such magnimous accusations they should go to the trouble of quoting - exactly - where he says those kinds of things. Because it's obvious to a one eyed parrot that he doesn't in their page. Lame. As are many of the other points made, it's very Way-like to be honest. They make an accusation, read a verse that says something about what they're accusing him of and then use that verse in direct application to Graham, even though they haven't actually substantiated the connection - like Graham not being a "spiritual" man because he won't cast judgement on certain issues or people and prefers to let God judge. Sounds to me like Graham's being as honest as he can be with what he knows and these guys butt's are puckered so tight they can't even see clearly from inside. Oh yeah - the best one is Graham being a veritable son of the Day-Vul because he thinks Catholics can go to Hay-vun. That's the only link I read. I have to lay down now and get my rest. But I"m getting warmed up. I'll be back.

Finally. We got some honest truth out of you. You're right I'm older and much wiser. Bet your bottomed-azz dollar on that one. Ask your Dad. Do people really think of him as Moses and/or Jesus Christ? I'm not involved formally or informally in any organizations that have any dealings with him, so you're the expert on that one. But people say and do a lot of weird things so it wouldn't surprise me. The Google searches exposing Billy Graham. :unsure: Little by little, post by post. This is too slow, even for an old codger like me. When you get your thoughts together, and do all the Google searches post them. I'll check back after I have my cup of cocoa.

Give him a real shock - phone calls cost a dime at one point and you had to stop the car to find a phone booth to make a call....

:blink: How would I? Know? I'll taking that as you blowing my question off. It was an honest one. In your poll you list 4 ex-Way leaders and one Cathollic Pope. I still don't understand the poll or the criteria you would use to define who would be the worst. Again, the question was by what standard is there a "worst" in your mind? What does that mean? I'd also be interested in why it's useful to know that opinion of others. Again - for others reading this - I'm not criticizing that you ask or why, I was just looking for more information from you. When comments brought up Billy Graham you made critical comments about him, that don't make sense to me, meaning I don't understand them. That doesn't mean I take exception to comments about him favorable or critical - it's just that the mmm...logic of your statements isn't clear. To me. If you don't know or don't have any reasonably current, significant and clear examples of your statement he teaches old stuff but calls it new I'll take that to mean you're just blowing smoke. Perhaps there's actually some teaching that Billy Graham does that you don't like or feel is wrong that you don't want to talk about here. That's fine. It appears you don't like him and I guess the reasons for that will remain a big secret. You don't want to clarify, fine. You don't have to. I won't bother to ask anymore.

You said somewhere you're 19 years old, is that right? Give it a few more years, you'll learn something new. Seriously. What has he taught where he lied and it was the same old stuff but he had said it was going to be new? Maybe it's just the way it reads but it sounds like you and Billy G. do the same thing from what you're saying - both do the same old stuff for years. Except that he lies and says it's new - is that it? In either case, I'd agree doing the same old stuff the same old way isn't a problem in some cases. I still stand under the water when I turn on the shower. I get wetter that way. Maybe Bill Graham should be on the list. He's a "leader" by your definition....?

So it's leaders as the person identified as the "head", the boss, the person in charge of their church or ministry or company. Interesting. I have no idea. Can't say. Sorry. Now I'm wondering - who was the "best"? Not sure there either. No help here.

I don't understand the criteria for voting - worst at what? VP, LCM and RR were or are acting Way El Presidentes. Chris Geer wasn't, although he ran the European Way into the ground in his own day. The Pope- whole different deal, unless you consider the Way a church, which they don't. They all 5 have managed large land holdings and assets. Worst at money management? Worst as teachers, pastors? Worst in body hygiene? Worst at what? Leaders is vague. Can someone define leading? Is it just being in charge, the boss? Worst at being the boss?

Somebody's gotta preach here ex10. There's been a real shortage of good old fashioned PREACHing lately. I try, but my newest book, working title "Buy This Book - It's Addressed To You", is taking up most of my free time. If it's gonna be ready for the printers, I gotta get hustling. I sense a real rush for this one coming up as it's going to meet some serious needs. Serious needs. Still and all, I'm going to remember what you've said. In fact I'd like to use it in one of my future books, and there's quite a few in the hopper just waiting, news that will excite the many fan who've purchased my previous works. Yes, sales are down, but I'm believing for a real spike come spring. Right now I have no one on ignore. Never have had anyone on ignore. I accidentally put myself on ignore once, which was weird. VERY weird. I'm posting like crazy, go to the threads, nada. Nothing. It was like not listening to yourself talk, not an easy task if you've ever tried it. I wasn't sure where I was - then I thought I might have been taking a "break". But that made no sense either. Finally I unignored myself and that was actually very invigorating. All that "me" at once, suddenly visible. It was like Christmas, without the tree disposal problems afterwards. So I learned something. Things were back to normal, in fact they were even more normal than they were before. Anyway, you're swell! Be preachy keen!

Hi! What happened to the Word? Well, there's this guy Jesus - Long gone from the planet now, but said to be coming back! And He is the Word. In John, Jesus Christ is referred to as The Word, the "logos". In fact, it's John who has given us this specific reference to Christ as "the logos", indeed, the ... living ... word of God. Paul refers to "the Word" in a very specific way too - the logos of God that was given to men to learn and know. He often referred in his writings to the Old Testament as well as what he knew by "revelation of Jesus Christ" - the gospel of grace that he himself taught very specifically as the "one body" formed of Christ's redemption that was to be made up of all men and women regardless of their heritage - both Jews and Gentiles, all people. All of this and more was and is "the word". That one body = undoubtedly one of the most important and radical things that Paul taught and it wasn't anything that was clearly foretold or written about in the O.T. So indeed, Paul's epistles carry that information that we may take for granted now as Christians but that was very new and very revolutionary in his day. And it came to him, Peter, others as God revealed it to them. The essence of that one body can be learned about by reading the espistles, yes. But it can only be lived and enjoyed by living "in Christ". As the law was a "schoolmaster", to Christ, Christ is our Pastor to bring us to God. It's in the living relationship we can have that the promise of God, His mind, reasoning, intents - the "logos" is fully realized and known. In John 1:17 and 18 he wrote - For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Jesus Christ declared God, made Him known, unfolded God to us, He expounded on God, so to speak. Not only in what He said and taught, but by what He did. God was known before Jesus Christ, but not the way that Jesus showed him to us. Jesus Christ was literally "God with us", Emmanuel, and He is God with us still and His "word" in us. ckmkeon, I would never fault you or anyone for reading the bible. I'd be cautious if I were you what you take verbatim from a "teacher" though. If someone tells you Revelations isn't important, how do you know that? Because it is said to talk about future events? The future's coming my friend - sooner or later, for all of us. A lot of Way-taught teachers avoid Revelations because it's difficult to understand and was never taught regularly or in detail to them, so they're ignorant as to what it has to say. Same with the Old Testament. There's nothing wrong with having teachers, everyone has to learn. I would suggest you not get attached to permanently to one though, as no one teacher can teach on everything, you're going to need some variety. That's just a suggestion though, and one you may already be doing, dunno.

Saying that people are neurotic, need to take a pill, those kinds of statements - that's wrong IMO, plain wrong. It's degrading and simply shouldn't be done on a board where people are trying to be open and honest about what they're thinking. Not even commenting to what they've said and simply branding it as neurotic babblings is wrong, does nothing to help the perception of the problem and only comes off as a nasty comment. If someone reacted to me that way I'd ask them to stop and try to discuss it. I'm not inclined to endless arguing - live and let live works for me. Disagree? Bring it on, I'm your huckleberry. Use terms like that to belittle and insult me? Forget it. If it continued to where I felt someone might do it at any time, I'd hit that ignore button in a heartbeat. It isn't worth it to come to this board, which is just a "cyber-spot" for posting our thoughts, and risk exposure to that kind of name calling. The ignore is available. So are these.

ex10, I agree. That sums it up for me too. I hope it clarifies for Mike what I (we) meant. I have no special view into what VPW was thinking or planning while he put PFAL together. I wasn't there, and was young like you when I first took it. I would just say that within a couple years or so it was clear to me that he felt PFAL was enough as it was. Between the class itself, the good o' collaterals and the RTHST book he offered we got the basic nuts and bolts of the Way's theology. The class itself never changed, was never edited for any reasons, regardless of what they might have been. RTHST went through revisions and reprints. Whatever changes occured never changed the basic teaching on the "gift", the manifestations, their operation, lambano/dechomai, any of that. The collaterals were compiled into books. The PFAL class transferral to video from the original was handled by 3rd Corps, under VPW's direction. The video versions that were then offered were as close to identical copies as they could be. No changes to that material were ever announced or recognized publically by VPW. Any changes that might have occured were negligible to those who retook it. We saw the first showing of it at the Way Nash after it was completed. Of course PFAL doesn't have to be god-breathed, a new issuing of "God's Word", and as a result perfect in every way, one way or another. And if he'd declared that in session one in a way that everyone would have clearly understood I doubt I would felt compelled to accept it over time. VPW never clearly stated that. That's reinventing history and it places a burden on it that it was never meant to bear IMO. VPW may have even very well wanted to believe that it was - if a person wants to invent that kind of mythology around it fine, but that doesn't make it so.

Mike - ex10 Okay, let's begin... Well, yes and no. I'd state it as such - that the basic doctrinal points taught in the PFAL 3 part series were done deals, and assumed to be correct as is. Some nuancing would be possible in certain records but from a "principle" standpoint the doctrinal messages were considered complete. Further "tweaking" would only clarify the details. That would be how I'd view the "early years", after PFAL was put on film the second time, in the version most of us took. ----------------- What I meant was different from what you're saying. I meant that from the standpoint of VPW and The Way Inc. the PFAL class, as offered and taught, was a "done deal". In PFAL VPW didn't teach 12 sessions in the first series and leave ot open to further discussion on the doctrinal points. He was teaching a it "as is" - here's what the bible says, here's what it means. If he was able to clarify, confirm or enhance what was in PFAL - yes, perhaps. He might look at that. To change the teaching or the conclusions - no. So if someone came and had different ideas on the major points - no dice. As far as the atmosphere of the "grads" of that period being accepting of the god-breathed status of what PFAL taught, I wouldn't agree, not by my experience, the people I knew (and I knew quite a few) or the things I participated in. Remember - if we take the statements of VPW that no one - no one, ever - had "mastered" PFAL, ever, to the point of "true mastery", including the books, then people at any period of time in the Way must have not done the "work" that VPW felt was necessary to do so. That certainly allows for some reservations of a sort, on the part of the people he's talking about. Not in all, and not to everything taught. But it's reasonable I thnk to factor into the reasons for such a statement by VPW that this idea of PFAL's "god-breath"edness may not have been fully embraced since I would say (and others have too) that it was never stated as such by VPW, and that if he inferred it or made statements to that effect, it didn't register to the point people accepted it. And in fact, I would say it wasn't, along the lines of what most people here, including some from that early period, have said their understanding was. Some people have said that it was a very good class teaching the bible and "abundant life" topics that opened up new territory to many people that had never heard it before but - that there wasn't a conscious decision to embrace PFAL itself as "god-breathed", out of the mouth of God. Again - PFAL could be attended and some, all, a little or a lot of that teaching from the bible accepted as correct, without any belief that the media itself was "god-breathed". So to clarify - the "done deal"edness I'm referring to was on the part of PFAL and VPW. This atmosphere you're referring to may have included some people thinking PFAL was god-breathed. I certainly knew people who probably felt the very dust on the tape it played on was worth investigation, who had kind of a neurotic fascination with the trappings of PFAL and who probably felt there was learning to be had by the number of times VPW blinked everytime he said the word "pie". I don't know. But there were a few people who went off on tangents like that at times. They usually seemed to be that way about other things too. It's easy to misunderstand what someone says or writes though. I just wanted to clarify what I meant. I thought it was clear in the post, but I guess not.

Cool. Anytime you want to get perspective, remember - they want to spend 17 months monitoring your Snack Plan. That'll get your mind right, fer sure.