Abigail

Belle, I have a friend who's teenaged daughter was diagnosed as being bipolar. I am so glad this mom had the good sense to take her daughter to a doctor! When she finally left TWI it was because her twig coordinators basically told all of the other teenagers to stay away from her daughter. Likewise, I wonder if I ever would have gotten my son diagnosed if I had stayed in TWI. I knew there was a problem and even being outside of TWI it took several years and a lot of persistence to get him diagnosed. During my TWI years though, I was told over and over again I just wasn't disciplining him enough. But I knew it wasn't just that, I could see in him how hard he tried to behave well and stay in control of himself, but he just kept losing the battle. Now, with a diagnosis and the proper medication, he is doing much much better.

I've found having large dogs can be a great deterent, especially the husky who likes to sleep outdoors at night.

I would stay away from any heavily spiced food -especially onces containing onion or garlic, unless your date is eating a similar dish. ;)-->

I wasn't a wow, nor was I involved in 1985/86, but I am in Lansing and know a number of people who were involved during those years. If you want to email me it's abigail0900@yahoo.com

I heard whispers and stories about VPW not too long after I got involved in the early 90's. At the time I dismissed it - didn't know any of the people who claimed to be victims. Toward the end of the 90's, my kids were taking a kindermusic class which was held at a church. The minister of the church knew of TWI and brought me a bunch of info off the internet. I still dismissed it. When the announcement came about LCM's "one time affair", I started having doubts about dismissing the stories, but was still not convinced. Sometime shortly after that, a friend who was also involved with TWI came to me about another girl in our area who was once one of LCM's targets. I think she was the one who also told me there was a 2nd lawsuit with allegations of "sexual misconduct". About this same time, I was having a lot of problems with leadership and in my marriage, and a number of doubts about TWI as a ministry. I started emailing back and forth with an old highschool friend who started sending me all kinds of info on TWI. Some of it was the same stuff the minister had given me, some of it was new. This was when I found Waydale (which was shortly before it shut down). I started connecting a lot of dots regarding LCM's "affairs", the things he taught, and the problems in my marriage. I left TWI. However, it wasn't until I came here and saw posts by a certain poster that I became convinced the "stories" about VPW were also true.

"My wife and I saw one when we were up north once. (Michigan) the light of this vehicle flew in a way our planes cannot." those were the northern lights, Def. ;)--> When I was a kid, I was terrified of UFO's and ET's. I thought there was a UFO that I could see outside my bedroom window every night for a long time (at least it seemed that way to me). Never saw an ET, but was convinced I heard one once. I screamed so loud I scared my parents. I still get shivers just thinking about it. When I was even younger, I was at my grandmothers - still slept in a crib. One crawled into the crib with me. (I"m not making this stuff up either). I also used to see the ghosts of our cat and dog running and playing in our hallway for several years after they died (I think up until the time we moved). These things bothered me so much that it was all I could do to handle being alone in a house, even into young adulthood. However, looking back now, I realize I had/have a very very vivid imagination, so who knows what was real. I was also afraid of really tall pine trees - I thought they were monsters that would come and get me. In kindergarten when we went outside for recess I used to hide in the doorway because I was so afraid of those trees. This is why I've tried to be careful about teaching my kids tv is make-believe and I've tried to be careful about what they watch.

Galen, Check your private topics. I think it was before you were there, now that I think back on the years.

When I left, the official word given to those still in was that I was "taking a short break". But I had one friend who was still in and she knew better. Eventually, she too decided to leave because she didn't like the way they were treating her daughter. They tried to talk her into staying by telling her I was coming back - LOL LOL, yeah, she would buy that. Sometime later, I was taking college courses and had a class with a woman who was still in. She was very friendly to me during that first class and I even gave her a ride home afterward. But she never showed up to that class again and my ex (who was also still in) said she came to fellowship all ....ed off that I seemed to be doing so well and was so happy.

Interesting, Galen. My first fellowship coordinators were corps. grads who got married in CT. When our region coordinator found out they were married by someone who "was not supposed to perform their wedding ceremony" they were publicly reproved and shipped off to another state. After I left TWI, I attended a graduation party with my then husband, it was held by the branch coordinators. The region coordinators attended as well - they were new to this region and had never met me before. When introductions were being made, they were very friendly and chatty for about 30 seconds. Once they heard my name they took off like bats out of hell and never even looked at me again. I thought it was pretty funny at the time. It showed me they were more afraid of me than I ever had been of them.

Thank you, Mike. No, I have no need to protect others from you. :)--> I don't even fear you or the doctrine you propound. I don't agree with it, but I certainly don't see you as dangerous. Heck, I survived TWI2, after that, little is scary. Obviously there were things within PFAL that I agreed with or I never would have hung out with TWI. I probably agree with more of the doctrine than I disagree with (though certainly not everything) - it is the practice that was so screwed up. But I also certainly don't see it as God Breathed and I certainly don't see VPW as a great man of god.

Just wanted to pop in and say I am reading with interest.

" I was told by someone that knew them, Gr*g kept her on something like a 5 pound leash....if she gained more than that he made her life a LIVING HELL. All this talk about Corps-nazis, micro-management, ridiculous expectations and emotional and spiritual blackmail,unfortunately for most twi leadership, that DOES start at home, and with their own families." Gee Radar, I'm so shocked! --> I had the privilege (sarc) of conversing with said Corps-nazi when he was training under A**n Lic*t. I'm sure that suprises you, eh? LOL When I was pregnant with my second son, my branch coordinators wife ragged on me constantly about not gaining weight. (yeah, that's healthy). she went on and on about how when she was pregnant no one could even tell until she was in her 8th or 9th month.

J, I just went through a similar hell with our puter and have been trying to help my neighbor clean up hers as well (her daughter was the one who trashed both). :(--> I'm not sure what the DSO Exploit is and would be very interested in getting an answer. It shows up not only on my puter here at home, but on the one at work as well. Whatever it is, it doesn't really seem to cause any problems. Callinghome.biz on the otherhand is a problem and you will want to get rid of it. I think (though I am not sure) that all those X-rated "files" you are seeing rush past you in spybot are not files that are actually on your computer (necessarily) but files that spybot is looking for. Mine does the same thing. Some of these nasty problems come from downloading junk off the internet. Others can come hidden in cookies you get simply by going to a website. We are now using a Norton's firewall and I am very picky about which cookies I will allow on my computer. If it is not from a website I trust and/or it's name is different than the website I am trying to access, I block it. Sometimes this means I cannot access a website I wanted to, but to me, that is better than having to clean this machine up again.

"Gr*g and L*ri B*lchalk were running the kork program last I knew. He is a nazi from what I hear." Yuppers, a succesful arranged marriage by TWI. A match made in hell.

I guess having spent my entire 10 years in one location, I never heard much or knew much about someone until they got here and I had a chance to watch them in action. When "the change" came here and things got ugly, I fought it and climbed "the tree" a number of times. I actually got a lot of support and back up from my limb/region coordinators (who you probably know, Hope). But I also figured, eventually they were gonna get sick of me calling them and bitching about the people here. Plus, I saw a lot of people I really cared about start to either leave or get kicked out in droves - it was scary. After I had my first son, my focus changed entirely from "trying to fix things in TWI" to trying to keep my head low and my family intact. That was when things went from bad to worse for me. Probably would have been better to stay on the front lines and have had them kick me out. Oh well, hind sight is 20/20.

Hope, it is good to see you! Been a long time. I will see if I can find a copy of the book, thanks. :)-->

This is the part that makes parenting the best. Getting to do all of things all over again with your own kids. Speaking of nostalgia - I picked up a cheapie video game last weekend - it has all the old games I used to play as a kid, packman, galaxa, centipede, etc. I'm having a blast playing them with my kids. They are amazed that their old mom can beat their high scores. LOL

Yeah well Oldies, lets just hope God doesn't judge you in the same manner that you judge others - judge not lest you be judged, eh? BTW - despite what your hero taught, many Christians believe being "complete in him" is a growing process - as you grow in him you become complete in him. But you don't have to worry about that, sitting up there so much higher than everyone else and all. Hmmm and that reminds me of another verse, about not being high minded - ah, nevermind you don't have to worry about what the rest of the Bible says, cause you're complete in him. But wait - isn't there also a verse about receiving the grace of god in vain, but you don't care about that stuff, do ya.

Unlike a number of Christians who seem to be more preoccupied with the next life than this one, many Jewish people keep their focus on how to make the world we presently live in a better place. Unlike certain "Christians" who seem to be more preoccupied with who will and won't be "seated in the heavenlies" a good many Jewish people prefer not to judge other's harshly but instead to focus on how they can be a better person. So what exactly does John 14:6 mean? Does it mean you have to believe (mentally ascend to) the idea that Jesus is the Messiah? Or does it mean you have to model your life after him? If it means the latter, what example did Jesus set? Did he sit in harsh judgement regarding who would and would not be in one of the many mansions in his Father's house? Or did he go out and by word and example teach, feed, and otherwise assist the "sinners"? Did he stand among the religious ones who set laws for others, which they themselves did not adhere to? Or did he reprove them? I have known a good number of wonderful Christians. Likewise I have known athiests who were more "Christian" than some who profess to be.

No Simon, you missed the point - if he works at pizza hut he better be saving for more than three months. :D-->

You must feel so superior and special up there Oldies - hiding behind your scriptures like a good little Wayfer. "I didn't write the book, God did" Isn't that the same crap the nazi corp. used to throw at us? Well gee Oldies, should we all begin to believe the Bible is God's Word simply because YOU say so? And yes, Raf, you have the right idea. Many Jewish people, even with in the more traditional sects, do not view the Bible in it's entirety as laws that must be strictly adhered to. Many view it as a historical record of man's relationship to God and how it has evolved and changed over time. Additionally, there are many, many books - commentaries and arguments - written by Rabbis, which are considered to carry a great deal of authority, debating over how the scriptures are to be interpreted and applied. A good many Jews do not take the Bible literally or do, but see many many layers underneath the literal.

I hate that word "whore". There are few words in the english language that can set me off more than that one. "Is there a price list published somewhere?" Is there a price list for how much is too much? how much is too little? If I spend $5000 on a gift is it too much? If I spend $5 is it too little and I am then a cheapskate? Or is it the thought and motive that matters. I've received gifts, both expensive and inexpensive - the price wasn't what was important to me - it was the thought and heart behind the gift. It isn't the amount of money said that sparks an emotional response from me, it is the message behind the gift. Likewise when giving a gift, I do not spend time worrying over if it costs too much or too little. When I purchase a gift I am doing so to say something. I could be, "I'm sorry" or it could be "I love your" or "I am thinking about you" or even "I am showing my support for you in this new endeavor you have taken up". If I purchased a gift in an attempt to express an HONEST and GENUINE emotion or thought and my partner got ....ed because I spent too much money, I'd have to wonder if they were more concerned about the money or the relationship. There is a difference between spending money to "buy someone's forgivness" and spending money to express something - even an apology. I guess ultimately only the giver (and hopefully the recipient) will understand which was the motive.

"But a person who is still waiting for the Messiah must also assume that Jesus was either delusional, a liar, or both. Not a very flattering view" No, its not a very flattering view of how you think, Oldies. There are alternatives outside those you listed. However, it require a little less narrow mindedness on your part to see that. "One can only hope that these folks will believe Jesus is the Messiah at the White Throne Judgement, when he's up there, and they're down there." I can't help but wonder if the thought that people who believe differently than you do might have an equal standing/status/love from and for God doesn't scare the hell out of you. Perhaps it leaves you feeling a little less unique and special.

Geez, like I said - tough crowd. Nowhere did I say forgiveness can be bought and sold. Can you show me where I said that? What I said was: "If my significant other got mad at me for spending money in an attempt to repair or salvage our relationship, out of love for him, I'd have to rethink the relationship and what his priorities are. " Would I be whoring myself out if I spent money on a counsellor? Would I be whoring myself out if I spent money on a romantic night out? Or a book I know he would really enjoy? Would I be whoring myself out if I dressed in something sexy to please my significant other? Have none of you ever done such things with your spouse/partner? Were YOU whoring yourself out? Is it the motive or the amount of money that matters most? I suppose - to some extent the answer to all of the above would depend on the context and situation. The point was, this guy seems to have not just inwardly acknowledged that he screwed up, but publicly acknowledged it. Additionally, by his actions he said money is no object and nothing is more important to him than his wife. Finally, he has gone to great lengths to try to communicate his feelings to her. The responses posted here would indicate that a number of people would be ....ed if their spouse spent that kind of money on them. But no one has bothered to consider WHAT this guy is trying to say to his wife. On the otherhand, he could be an abusive stalker - sick and twisted. But I am basing my opinion only on what I have perceived from the story posted. So far there has been no information given that would lead me to believe his is an abusive stalker.

pretty sickening, eh Excathedra. A person bused for smoking dope gets more time than that!