Abigail

Parents who unquestioningly believe everything that their "little angels" tell them are fools. Parents who never back up their children are cruel. What a great statement, Oak. And such a fine line to find sometimes. Funny story. Aaron has to sit in detention today after school for passing notes (the usual 2nd grade stuff - so and so loves so and so, etc.) . He has denied and denied that he was the one who wrote them. I have studied them and studied them and I am not convinced it is his handwriting. I also not convinced it's not. I just don't know for sure. But on this one, for a change I got to play the good guy. I got to tell him I believed him, but that I didn't think I could fix it for him, and he was probably going to have to do the detention anyway. {If this had been a more serious situation with more serious consequences I would have fought my way to the principal's office, but in this case it just wasn't necessary and it's good for him to learn mom can't fix everything.} For him, it was enough that I believed him. He's actually kind of excited about detention (strange kid). He's never had a detention before and he wants to know what it's all about. I figure by the time it is over, he will think twice about doing anything that will get him a detention again. ;)--> But he will survive it knowing his mom believes in him.

"The sex-offenders from a few decades ago, are a protected class today [ie, homo-sexuals, trans-sexuals, bi-sexuals]." I hate to burst your bubble, Galen, but statistically speaking most pedophiles are heterosexual men.

Your WOW coordinators initials wouln't have been CW, would they?

It seems to me, being unloving/cruel,murdering people, and even judging someone based upon nothing but a general idea of their religious beliefs without really knowing the person would be sin. If God is love, wouldn't anything outside of love be sin? The mental gymnastics we use to justify prejudice and hatred reminds me very much of the mental gymnastics we used in TWI to justify the unsound doctrine and behavior there as well.

Well I certainly agree it's not worth fighting about or anything Vickles. I get what you are saying. :)-->

Vickles, Here's the thing - none of us really knows anything beyond what was reported in the paper, which does make the girls sound very sweet and innocent, yes? BUT, papers write stories that sell. Remember the McDonald's lawsuit - the woman who spilled coffee on herself and burned herself. Didn't we all think it was outrageous she got all of that money for spilling coffee on herself? I studied that case in class. Here's what the papers didn't tell you. 1. McDonalds had been told by the health department on numerous occasions their coffee was too hot (beyond industry standard so much, it was a risk to their customers) and they needed to turn the temperature down. 2. A couple of other people had also received severe burns from the coffee prior to the woman who sued and McDonalds payed them off quietly. 3. Part of the reason the woman got so much money was because of what is called "punitive damages". Punitive damages are designed to pressure businesses into taking the precautions they should have had in place all along. See, the papers never told us that part. Likewise, I suspect there is more to this story than what the papers are telling us. I find the reason for the girls staying home to be suspicious. Had they even said they didn't want to go because there was going to be drinking, I could have bought it. It was the "cussing" and drinking which leaves me thinking it just sounds too "pure". That being said - even IF the girls were playing some sort of practical joke, I don't think this makes them evil, just teenagers. I'm guessing the judge saw it the same way, which is why they have to pay her medical expenses but no punitive damages.

Okay, call me the cynic in the group, but I gotta tell ya, it strikes me that perhaps there is more to this story than what is being said on MSNBC. I would love to read the Court transcripts. Think about it, two 17 year old girls who stayed home from a dance because there might be cursing and drinking? If they had said they didn't like dances, didn't have dates, almost anything else, I might have bought it, but that just sounds too "goody goody". They make the cookies and attach a card with their initials on it. But when the woman asks who is outside her door they refuse to answer because they wanted it to be a surprise? I'll tell you, if I heard people messing around outside my house that late at night and they refused to identify themselves when I inquired, I would have been on the phone to the police. So, maybe there is some bad blood between these families. Or maybe the girls were just trying to play a prank and it went a little bad, I don't know. But I do think there is more to this story that the press is printing.

I am sickened, but I want to emphasize two things: a convicted sex offender and served three years in prison for raping a 10-year old girl in 1998 It was April 2nd, 2004 and investigators say Eddie Cordero was on the hunt. They say he approached a 12-year-old girl at a bus stop If I do my math right, he was released sometime in 2001, 2002 at the latest. Makes ya sick to think of how many other girls there could be in the interim that no one knows about.

I just remembered this today as we were waiting to find out if 1000Names won the ugly truck contest. . . . In my younger pre TWI days, I got to go back stage at a Go Go's concert and take pictures of the opening band (I can't even remember who it was now - oh yeah Helmut) for an interview. I was only able to take one picture of the Go Go's, but I did get to see them running around in their underwear getting ready for the show. Too bad I wasn't a guy, probably would have enjoyed in more then. ;)-->

The government usually turns a blind eye to these cases unless there is obvious neglect or child abuse going on.

I had a drugged out gang member pull a gun on me in a park once, but his friends called him off. I'd like to point out that he was NOT black. I also gave a ride home to a guy who had robbed a store up the street from us. Of course, I didn't know that when I was giving him a ride. The house I lived in when I was a kid was broken into a couple of times (not that we ever locked the doors in that little town) but that was just kids being stupid.

or get arrested for a crime

We had a couple of scares in the old neighborhood, but never any direct problems. So far it has been the same here. However, it really disturbs me to be driving home from school with the kids and see groups of three or four men sitting out front near the corner store drinking booze out of paper bags. :(--> And I wouldn't be suprised if a numer of the kids who live in this neighborhood grow up to be criminals.

Here's one I just found out yesterday. My Hebrew name is Leah Bas Nahum (which I think means Leah daughter of Nahum). My cousin was cleaning out some things and came across the certificate of my "becoming an honored member in the faith of Israel". Sort of like a Jewish birth certificate. My Grandmother must have had it done when I was born and then my cousin must have ended up with it when she died. Anyway, it was kind of a cool suprise to find in the mail yesterday. Oh yeah and my birthday is Adar I 30, 5727.

Happy 21st (way more fun than 16, cause you can DRINK) from both of us, Shell!

See my post above. The person who sent you the information did believe it, Bluz. I'm the one who told them it was illegal. I was mistaken because the law was changed in 1997 and I was unaware of that.

Despite this misinformation - it does show that TWI is willing to go out of its way to identify the "nay sayers".

I used to work for Pitney Bowes and I am the one who stated they had to have gained the information illegitimately. It would appear I was incorrect because the laws have changed since I worked there. Each meter has a unique serial number which is used to keep track of the meter and its use. (It was my job to insure all meters were inspected according to federal law). It used to be that the identity of the owner of the machine was not public information. It appears that law was changed in 1997. As of May 12,1997 the law now reads: "The name and address of a meter user, and the name of any person applying for a permit on behalf of the user, may be disclosed to any member of the public provided that the requester at the time of the request supplies the applicable meter serial number [which is printed on the envelope] and the name or ZIP code of the licensing post office as they appear in meter indicia." I apologize for the misinformation.

Or perhaps Israel simply believed this was what God's will was and the real lesson here is Genocide has been going on since time began and it is wrong.

ROFLMAO - I don't know if you realize this, but you cut off the word "power" in your picture. All you see is POW - Prisoner of war, yup that was us, eh? LOL

"A suggestion from leadership is tantamount to a command. I don't know off hand the doctrine that backed that up, but they had it and used it all the time. " Yeah, that one really screwed me up too, cause I KNEW I was getting bad advise but had to follow it anyway. :(--> The doctrine came from the "Don't go to Jeruselm" passages. LCM taught that the disciples followed Paul to Jerusalem even though they had REVELATION that Paul was not to go. Therefore we were to "follow our leadership to Jerusalem" even when we knew it was wrong.

Thought I'd toss in a couple of comments. . . What the Hay was speaking of the power of words. This is a Jewish principal as well - "God spoke it into being". I certainly agree that the words we speak can have a great deal of power and influence, so we should do our best to choose them with care. However, I will not condemn myself for occasionally choosing poorly - which is what this principal was turned into by TWI. "Not only does this hit on declaring a positive confession, it also targets the Word, God's promises, as what we must target if the law of believing is to work for us. This latter point you bring up well, later in your post with these words: " Ah the law of believing. I think of it as the principal of believing. There is certainly great truth to this principal and it doesn't take a biblical scholar to figure out that if you take action to bring something to pass you greatly increase the likelihood it will happen. Similarly, if you think about it all day long and never get off your behind - it ain't likely to happen. But again - it was taken to an extreme and used to condemn people. I can "believe" for my son to someday grow up and not need the medications he currently takes. It is certainly a promise from God - prosper and be in health. I can take a number of different actions to bring this to pass as well. But if it doesn't go down that way, I'm not condemning myself and I'm not condemning God. Sometimes things just don't turn out the way we want them to and I just have to accept that I may not understand why that is.

I was thinking about this today - areas where maybe the doctrine was right but the practice was wrong and/or areas where the doctrine was just wrong. The one that comes to the forefront of my mind was their application of the rod of correction. I don't think I need to expound upon it though, I'm sure most of you know. What are some of the ones that stand out the most to you now, looking back or had the most impact on your lives?

Excellent point, Wafer Not. The other concern I had after reading that story was that it seemed this girls self worth was too tied up in her sexuality. IF she views herself as worthy only because of her sexuality, the likely result is that she will wind up with men who likewise only view her as worth for her sexuality. Sad.

lawsuits would be tricky, Belle. TWI's "offical policy" is to seek medical attention and not to stop taking medication prescribed by a doctor without the doctor's medication. Advise we were given by "leadership" would quite possibly be seen by the courts as being no different than advise given by a friend, especially if that leadership did not have clergy status. Additionally, you would have to prove there were damages as a result of their bad advice. Nonetheless, I think this is a great topic for discussion. How many others were advised to not seek medical attention, were treated badly when they did, etc.? I have a friend whose young daughter fell and broke the denz (sp) bone in her neck. She had to have a bone graft to repair it. My friend and her husband were discouraged from going through with the surgery and reproved for not believing god enough for their daughter to be healed. They followed their doctors advise and their daughter is now a beautiful teenaged girl.