Abigail

We got the Norton's installed and running :)--> Thanks. :)--> Garth, I had Zone Alarm for a time on the old puter and had a lot of problems with it. I had even more problems getting it off my system and getting Norton's running properly, as a result. There was definitely a conflict between the two. Not between the virus program and the firewall, but between Zonealarms firewall and Norton's firewall. Bluz was our savior during that mess!! Once we got Norton's running on the old system it worked very well. So far it is working very well on this one too. After everything we went through with the hijackers and spyware on the old system, and everything I've read and learned, I have very little interest in free downloads off the internet (though I do use Spybot and Adaware). I would much rather pay a little money to purchase a good product from a store then risk downloading something that will cause even more headaches. The parental controls are HUGE for me. I have kids who use my puter. I am not so concerned about them getting into porno sites, etc. (at least not at this age), but I do have concerns about them being able to download. My 7 year old was downloading games off cartoon network that had spyware and my 5 year old would download stuff without even realizing that is what he was doing. With the Parental controls that came with Nortons I can leave them turned off when I am on the computer. When I log out of Norton's they are automatically turned on. Once they are on the kids cannot send or receive IM's from strangers, cannot inadvertently go to a website they shouldn't, and cannot download anything. :)-->

Nope, never went to prom. Neither the guy I was dating or I could afford it.

1000Names finally got a new puter. We are running XP Home. It would appear XP home already has a built in firewall. It also comes with a free trial of Norton's anti-virus and a McAfees antihacker program. I already know I don't want to keep the McAfees. I do like Norton's but we already have the Norton's Internet Security 2005 which is my preference because it has everything in one including the parental controls. So here's the questions. Can we install the Internet Security 2005 even though Windows has its own firewall program? or do we have to uninstall the windows program? Or should we not use the Nortons program at all?

"PS - Disagree or agree all you want but its his site and he has every right to do with it what he wants." It may be his site, but he most certainly cannot do with it whatever he wants. Not if he wants to remain a part of TWI. The changes that have just taken place there show, beyond any doubt in my mind, exactly who makes the rules for his site.

"I think we ought not to complain about John B's decision (though likely arm twisted by TWI leadership) to convert his website from free speech to focused. We ALL would love to inject our two cents into TWI and especially it's leadership, but they also should be allowed the freedom to "talk amongst themselves" as they apparently are now doing." No they are not allowed to freely "talk among themselves". Not on John B.'s website and not person to person. It is obvious nothing has changed in TWI since I left. Question a teaching or "mandate" from leadership and you will be censored one way or another. I had respect for John B. in that he allowed all of us to come to his site and respectfully ask questions and have conversations with others who were in. He even went so far as to point us to an appropriate forum for those conversations. I have lost that respect. He is too afraid of his leadership to do what he wants to do. If he wanted us gone he could have politely asked us to leave or he could have banned us back when we first arrived. It seems pretty obvious to me that these new rules weren't his doing, but that of the ministry his website is "not officially affiliated with."

"Respectfully, and i dont want to be a stick in the mud; but there is no such thing as spiritual adultery. Adultery means having sex in marriage with someone who is not your spouse." Sky, you don't think someone can commit adultery without actually having sex with someone who is not their spouse? What then, do you call it when someone gives more of their heart and love to someone who is not their spouse?

Roy, Thank you for helping me start my day with a smile!!!! DMiller, I'm guessing your name shows up on the membership list as soon as you register and before you've been approved. I see you are correct, my name is there along with several other familiar names. However, I cannot log in or post. Has anyone else been able to log in and post?

I'm sure the laws vary some from state to state, but in Michigan if you give a bad reference you better have damned good documentation of specific problems to back it up. Otherwise you could be facing a lawsuit.

Sky, I am sorry this is such a struggle for you in your own life, with your wife. I know, unless things were to truly work out with your wife, there is heartache regardless of the path. The good news is, the heartache can heal in time. I wanted to add a couple of comments: "you know Abby i agree with this. ie(Co-dependent no more) I do think legal seperation provides such boundaries and I think (and mentioned before) that the church and state have missed opportunities there." Ya know, I actually agree with you on this. While I certainly don't have quite the same view on divorce as you do, there are marriages which could actually be salvaged by a legal separation if the couple would take that time apart to work on themselves first and then the marriage. In my state, there is no such thing as a legal separation. The result is, if you want to separate and you need the state to intervene for issues such as child support, your only recourse is a divorce. This is a shame. "I think also that one can make the agruement that even after divorce, the relationship may not be completely dead until fornication or adultry has occured by one of the parties." If there are children involved, the relationship is NEVER dead. It is changed, but not dead. I am thankful my ex and I, though we have our differences, generally get along pretty well now and work together well for the benefit of the kids. Additionally, I have known couples who divorced, moved on with their lives and into other relationships, and eventually ended up back together again. Rare, but it does happen. "I certainly dont know of many people who can say there life is simpler as a result of marriage." Well, I'm not married. However, 1000Names and I have been living together for three years now and I can definitely say my life is simpler as a result. He is an excellent partner and "step-parent".

Now here's a valid argument that indeed the ministry is running that website, even if they claim otherwise- you HAVE to go through your Limb AND Region coordinator to get in. I wonder what they have to say about that?" Well that got me curious. I've reregistered. Where it asked for limb and region coordinator information I simply told the truth - none. I'm waiting to see if they will approve my account or not. I can't see any legitimate reason why they would not. I was always respectful in my posts. Of course, given the new rules that go with the new forums, it seems there won't be much to discuss. No debating, no questions about the Bible or God, much less TWI policy. I guess we can talk about the weather.

"was it flyberg or cynic or something like that, abigail? I remember someone posting in the same way before." Naw, Cynic wouldn't change his handle. I may not always agree with him, but he is consistent and open. But I knew I would remember.....here's a cut and paste from a previous post by Early2it: " All religious establishments are nothing more than the ambitions of idiots with good intentions who think they can do God's job for Him. The Way International is no exception. Evil is at the very core of such things. All religious establishments are nothing more than the ambitions of idiots with good intentions who think they can do God's job for Him. The Way International is no exception. Evil is at the very core of such things."

Well, it would appear that they "unregistered" the rif raf because if you go to the members list, we are no longer listed there. However, it would also appear you can re-register and they might let you post. Galen managed to reregister. However, if my posts have to be spell checked and approved, I have no interest in posting.

I would remain civil and never let em see me sweat. 1000Names says (and I wholeheartedly agree) the best revenge is living well. :)--> I also agree it sounds like this woman is on some sort of power play and has some serious "issues" (I love that word). If she knows she is getting to you, it reinforces her bad behavior.

"If one is unwilling to endure for a person who (doesnt make them happy or has serious problems), how can one grow in a relationship with God and his ways which cannot be fathomed? It is therefore the ultimate test of love for any party" If one is dead because their spouse killed them, would that then be the ultimate growth in a relationship with God? One must love oneself before one has anything to offer another. Self love includes drawing boundaries with respect to how one will be treated - an obvious boundary is not tolerating physical abuse. A less obvious, but still necessary boundary is not tolerating emotional abuse. " This is not the doctrine taught by some who believe there is some ultimate unquizzacle soul mate who they are able to drift off into peace, bliss and contentment. Paul does not teach this. Therefore I think people expecting that are deceiving themselves." Agreed. But in between the happily ever after and the other extreme of death due to domestic violence - there is still plenty of room for reality and God. "Lastly and most importantly is the issue of purity and holiness, which is the justifiable and exceeding joyful reason Paul wanted our focus on Christ. Those preoccupied with finding there true soul mate dont and miss the opportunity of what God wrought in Christ in difficult spaces" One does not have to be married to avoid being preoccupied with finding their soul mate. Additionally, as the divorced mother of twi, I can guarantee you there are more than enough "difficult spaces". "Yet i find in my solitude better joy and peace with God than looking for that in a person. Cause guess what guys? It dont exist." Agreed. One will never find peace and solitude if they are looking for another person to supply it for them. It has to come from within and above. Then one may be fortunate enough to find someone else who also has these qualities within themselves to share it with.

And I thought I was the cynic when it came to this story. Sheesh! The pseudonym is new, but the rhetoric is not. I can't recall the name I've seen this theme under previously, but it will come to me eventually.

The people in our area were always great about helping out. With both of my c-sections, I think I didn't have to prepare a meal for two weeks. However, it was always the local "joe believers" not the leadership. But when my mom was sick and dying, my siblings and I took care of her at home. She didn't want to die in a cold, sterile hospital. No one came to visit or helped out then. We had more help from total strangers (like my sister's boyfriend's mom) than anyone in TWI.

Here's the thing - in days of old, being married for your entire life only meant being married for maybe 10 or 20 years tops. The woman was likely to die in childbirth, the men likely to get killed in war or injury. Now being married for life means being married for 40 - 50 plus years. WOW!! "So now I"m praying for the end of time" -Meatloaf I cannot see how God would want us to spend our lives in misery. For some - staying in a marriage would mean just that. Having been in an abusive relationship - I have no doubts I tried to make things work, did counseling,the whole bit. When I saw a guitar flying at my head, I was done. I have no qualms or guilt about leaving that marriage and I don't see how a loving God would condemn me for it either. Nor do I see how a loving God would condemn me for entering into a loving relationship after divorcing my husband. BUT, I have also taken the time to think through and understand my own role in the abusive relationship. I have learned what I needed to and done the work, so I don't repeat the mistakes and wind up in another abusive relationship.

"How about you? Are you a "stealth," "emotional," or "logical" reprover? Are you embarrassed, ashamed, angry, when you're on the receiving end? How about when you're on the giving end?" All of the above and none of them. Depends on the day, my mood, the other person, the context - there are a ton of variables. However, in general, when I disagree with someone and express my different opinion I don't see that as reproof, just an exchange of thoughts and opinions. I try to see the other POV and be respectful. But, there are days when I just vent and there are those (very few) who I simply don't have much respect for. I'd say the same is probably true when someone expresses a difference of opinion from me. In face to face situations, it's pretty much the same. If my boss comes to me and shows me a mistake I made, it is no big deal to me. Why? Because he is very nice about it and, like me, recognizes we are all human and make mistakes. So I correct the mistake without any fuss or embarrassment. On the other hand, there is a girl at work who I think is a real bitch and tends to get rather rude with people. If she were to get rude with me, I'd most likely return the favor.

WaferNot, "I was at HQ. When the crap went down at HQ after lcm's announcement, we were told the Lichts decided to leave. Shortly thereafter, we were told they apologized to lcm and were back. But then obviously they left for good shortly after that." Thanks for clarifying. I suspect no one here in Michigan was ever informed of the "apology" if it ever even happened.

Lindy, I knew the Lichts here in Michigan and adored them, they were very good to me both in and on my way out of TWI. "The L*chts were in Michigan, and they definitely left after hearing about lcm's crap. I think it started in April 2000. They left, and there was quite an uproar. They were required to apologize to lcm. They came back shortly, and then they left again." Wayfer, the Lichts were definitely still here in Michigan in 2000. They left after the announcement about LCM. But I never knew they left, came back, and left again. "t least that's what I remember when I was there. " Wayfer, were you here in Michigan? Or were you "there" at HQ?

"He/she refuses to quit his job and find more suitable employment so as to be available at all times for da household.." This may sound ridiculous, but not far off from some of the explanations I have heard why somebody was not welcome anymore. " Not at all ridiculous. My ex had a job he absolutely loved, but he had to work second shift and could only attend fellowship once a week. He was strongly encouraged to get a day job so he could be more available. He did, and it caused a lot of problems. 1. It was in a different field and he has not been able to get back into the field he loved so much since. 2. I think it contributed to the downfall of our marriage because we had to spend more time together. We got along pretty well when we only saw each other on weekends and for a couple hours here and there during the week. :D-->

Washingtonweather - thanks for the input on this story. I don't recall the news article mentioning the woman even had a husband! Was he home when the girls came? If so why did she go to her sisters/friends (I can't recall which)? I tried to find some court documents on it, but only came up with more new stories. Anyway, the added information does add perspective.

I remember that Rock, Oaks! And shame on you for not believing God big enough and preparing yourself properly to be able to handle such conditions!!!!!!!!!! hehehe, I was in a camper that year. :)-->

He couldn't reach the pedals, Shell. It was an automatic - he put it in drive and coasted there, more or less. But think about this . . . . If he's stealing the car at FOUR, what the hell is he gonna be doing when he is 16???????????

Gives me grey hair just thinking about it