Abigail

I would say much of the art of modern medicine is pretty miraculous.

Yeah, well good luck with that James. Most of the regulars in the doctrinal forum have known me for going on 10 years now and we have had many discussions about Torah, about our lives and families. And they know what about you, exactly????

Gen, your uncle is right. If he is stricly observant and if going to synagogue would require him to drive a car, then he would be "working" and thus breaking one of God's rules. There is nothing in the Torah that requires one to go to the Synagogue on Sabbath. That is tradition, and it is a good tradition if one can keep it, but it is not law. And yes, the Sabbath is to be a day off. A day of rest. In fact, on the Sabbath the Chabad women have special clothing they wear which is designed to be particularly comfortable for just that reason. You cannot equate going to synagogue with going to church. Judaism is centered around the home and one's community. Remember, in Torah there was only one temple and most people could not travel from their far away lands every week to go to temple. Rather, they only went for specific high holidays, and even then not all could make the trip. Synagogues were designed after the temple was destroyed. They allow the Jewish people to have a community with each other i and to worship with each other in a more modern civilization.

Chabad does NOT reject Messiah. Perhaps they reject YOUR Messiah, but they most certainly do not reject Messiah. and yes, yes I would regard Rabhbinic Jews as a better authority on Torah.

James, I am a long time poster here at the cafe, though I do not post often anymore. I am also Jewish. I have read your posts since you first arrived here. While others attacked you, I maintained an open mind. For a brief period I was excited that there might actually be another poster here who understands Torah from a Jewish perspective. Clearly, I was mistaken. It is apparent from your posts that you like to appear intellectual, educated, and scholarly, but you most certainly do not get Torah at all. In fact, I would say most of our Christian and Pagan regulars here in the doctrinal forum get Torah better than you do.

James, you cannot pull a a few verses out and claim that sums up everything written on the entire subject. Well, you can't do it with any integrity anyway. There are plenty of instances in the Bible where people rightly proclaimed the dishonesty that another was partaking in. BTW, this is a discussion board. That means we share a few thoughts, concepts, verses, resources etc. We then discuss the topic with others, giving some amount of respect and honest consideration for what the other participants have to say and then perhaps responding to it. You aren't participating in discussions, you are preaching. One would have to have an awful lot of free time on their hands just to get through one or two of your posts!

Or, if one wants a reliable source for information on "lashon hora" one could go to Chabad.org and look it up there. Or look it up on Jewfaq.org or a number of other websites designed by people who actually practice Judaism, study Torah, and understand it. Which, btw, James clearly does not. BTW, James, using yourself as a source does not add validity to a logical argument/discussion/debate. For that, one must use other reference material.

Every time I read James' posts the phrase "straining at gnats" keeps going through my head. It is a lot of wordsmithing with no apparent real understanding of how to live and love. It is exactly as it was in TWI. Make oneself sounds scholarly and intellectual by arguing about words. Its a shell game.

James, it appears as if you came here to recruit, therefore you have opened yourself up to a trial of sorts. You want to preach your propaganda then the people will try you, if they are wise, before they follow you. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice . . . . Also, you clearly do not understand the true concept of "Lashon HaRa."

ExC, I just thought it was a funny article. Cracked.com does a lot of "spoof" and humorous articles. I read them, they make me laugh. I thought I would share this one. It made me laugh at myself where I see myself. It made me laugh where I see others in it too. Not in a mean way, but sort of in the same way we might laugh at a family member who we know is not perfect, but who we love anyway. I've been away from this place for a long time. The first time I walked away for a lenghty time I came back and I found everyone irritated me, even those who I was once close with. I left again for a long time. Now I am back and I am not irritated. Instead it is more like seeing old friends and remembering how silly we could be some times. I think sometimes we take ourselves and/or each other too seriously. It is good to laugh. Laughter is good medicine.

Is it just me, or does it seem as if Composer by and large ignores anyone he can't argue with or take a jab at, and only responds to those he can?

I thought this was quite amusing, particularly because I have seen these techniques used from time to time. You can find THEM HERE And if you enjoy this article you may also enjoy: Personality Disorders Caused by the Internet

You are not alone, Luna. Many of us here can relate to how you feel. BTW, I really like your name.

I thougth some of you might enjoy this article: Click Here It is pretty short and simple to read. In part, it says: "Our sages tell us that Torah can be interpreted in four different general ways: peshat, remez, drush and sod. . . . . Within these four methods of understanding Torah, there exist countless possible avenues of understanding"

I have known quite a few Christians who beieve that way (and didn't pretty much all of us at one time or another during our stint with TWI?). Yet, even the knew testiment speaks of how all will come to a knowledge of God, or something to that effect. I think there are many paths to God. God is much bigger than the box we often try to force Him into. Perhaps if I have time this weekend, I will dust off my books and post some more on the subject. :)

Soul Searcher, I can tell you my thoughts on the afterlife, but please keep in mind I do not speak for all of Judaism. :) As within Christianity, there is a diversity of beliefs among the Jewish people. What binds us together is not necessarily an agreement on all doctrine, but a shared heritage and belief in some (most definitely not all) of the basic tenants and rituals. It has been quite a long time since I have given deep consideration to the afterlife, as I have put significantly more emphasis on living my life in the here and now. But, based upon my understanding of scripture I would only go so far as to state I do believe there is something more following death. I cannot say for certain if we are reborn and put back on this earth in a different body to continue learning and growing or if we return to God to await a new heaven and earth. I know Enoch walked with God and was translated. I know many men and women of the Bible were imperfect, yet it would seem they found rest with God when they were through with their earthly bodies. I believe that the purpose and goal of our lives on this earth is two-fold. First, it is for us to grow and mature into better beings. Then, it is for us to work and live in our communities in such a way as to make them better. It seems to me there would be no purpose in growing into better beings if at the end of this life we were to simply fade into oblivion.

I am not a Christian, so perhaps my answers won't interest you. But, your understanding of Judaism interests me because I am Jewish. I suspect, however, that you will find my answers unsatisfactory. They are my answers. By that, I mean they are not likely to be the answers you are seeking. I can tell you I have raged at God. I have walked away from God. I have studied, I have screamed, I have thrown my hands up in the air and cursed at God. Yet, in the end I always return. Changed in my thoughts and opinions, but still believing in God nonetheless. My father wouild call that weakness, he does not believe. But for me, it is my belief that makes me strong. I don't know why terrible things happen in this world. I don't know why 6 million Jews died in consentration camps or why so many died in Haitti. I don't know why men rape women, why children are abused, or why teenaged boys are killing each other over turf and drugs. I don't know why I had to endure being raped at 17. Or why I had to endure an abusive marriage. Or why my grandmother (who was the most wonderful and amazing woman I have ever known) had to die only a few short months before she would have met her first great-grandson. What I do know is that there are things I can do to make this world a better place. I know that each day I can take action that has a positive impact on my family and the community I live in. Most days, it may only seem like little things, but those little things can unexpectedly have a tremendous impact down the road. That is the cornerstone of Judaism, not the rituals, but the doing, the making a difference. I think many Christians may feel the same way about their religion as well. And, I know that it is my belief in God that keeps me going and helps give me the strength and courage to continue to do those little things. Without that belief, for me, life seems hopeless and pointless. I might just as well eat, drink, and be merry until the day I die. It is my belief in God that gives me hope and it is hope that gives me strength and courage and it is strength and courage that allows me to get out of bed every day and do my part to improve my corner of the world. So, I don't believe in a good or loving God simply because some book says He is so. I believe in a good and loving God because that is what brings me peace in this chaotic and often harsh world that we live in.

Composer, It strikes me from reading your posts that you are struggling with your relationship with your God. You can claim you only believe in ID, and not a God of the Bible, but I think you protest too much for that to be entirely true. I am not Christian, so your posts don't necessarily offend me as much as they may some of the others here. But, I can't help but wonder are you truly trying to persuade them that their beliefs are wrong? Or somewhere deep inside are you truly praying and hoping they will persuade you to their POV? Something must have hurt you very deeply for you to be this angry. Most of us here on this forum can relate to that, having done our time in TWI and experienced the great disillusion that followed our exodus from the cult.

Jacob doesn't put much in his pockets, so I rarely find much. Candy or gum wrappers. Aaron on the other hand . . . he picks up all kinds of things! Screws, springs, OMG I can't even count how many yuhgio or pokemon cards I've washed!! Money (he's better about that though, because the rule here is if I find it in the washer I keep it!), rocks, lots of rocks, he used to collect them. Jewelry and barrets that he finds on the playground. Notes from girls at school. Fishing lures and other assorted fishing gear. With that one, there is no telling what may turn up next. Then there is Sushi . . . he gives me lots of money from his pockets. :) I guess the pens don't count though, because he doesn't leave them in his pockets, he leaves them on his shirts?

Its been so long since I posted here, I almost forgot my login information. I am an ex-wayfer married to an ex-wayfer and we met here at Greasespot. I didn't marry my husband because he was ex TWI, but I did meet him because he was ex TWI. TWI really has very little to do with our lives together, other than the occassional insider joke that someone who had never been involved in TWI would never get. We met in the chatroom. Our background with TWI was the common ground that caused us to become introduced, but it was the common ground we have in so very many other areas of our lives that drew us together and keep us together. He is, without a doubt, the best friend I have ever had.

Bank of America and a number of other big names have all settled class action suits against them for improperly applying payments so that they can tack on late fees, and various other activities. It is a bit harder to find the information on these cases, because they settled. I have a list at work, if someone needs more specific information PM me and I will get back with you on Monday. Also, I highly recommend checking the interest rate that shows up on your statement against your cardholder agreement. If you don't have it, ask for it. Once you get it, keep it. Credit unions are typically a much safer bet than many of the national companies. We have been defending a debt collection case at work and I am outraged and sickened by what takes place with credit card companies. Once the case is over, I will be contacting my legislature on both a state and federal level. Our laws are outdated and no longer protect the consumer.

Only someone in my family could find and marry a half Christian-half Buddist man who is Russian, Polish, and Japanese, and whose family also happens to own one of the largest Jewish funeral homes in New York, along with a number of others across the country. (They also buy and sell caskets and urns to other funeral homes). My uncle passed away this morning. He lived a full life of 82 years and it wasn't unexpected. He went peacefully in his sleep. It is sort of a relief, actually. He has been sick for a while and I have been traveling back and forth (an hour drive each way) every weekend to help take care of his wife and his mentally ill daughter. Now it is done and after the funeral we can begin to make plans for the future of the two of them. Anyway, we knew it was coming and I had spent the night with my aunt last night, knowing he wasn't going to last for more than 24 to 48 hours. It is the Jewish way to hold the funeral within 24 hours, or as soon thereafter as possible. So, as I began calling all the family members to notify them of my uncle's passing, they all wanted to know where and when the funeral was taking place. His wife wasn't talking, his son wasn't ready to face such decisions. His other daughter was on a plane coming in from Texas and didn't even know yet that her father had died. So, I called a different cousin and asked her what I should do. She told me to ask my Aunt if she wanted a full service or just a grave-side service and gave me the name of the funeral home. My aunt said "grave-side" so I made the call. The funeral home said I would need to call the hospital to let them know they could release the body. I called the hospital and after getting transferred a number of times, someone from security informed me that a family member was already there taking care of things. "Who?" I asked, very confused. He didn't know, he was still waiting for the person to make his way to his office. I asked him to have the family member call me. I then started phoning family members, once again, to try to figure out who was at the hospital. While I was doing this, people began arriving at my aunt's house. In fact, before I knew it, the entire family had gathered, thus adding to my confusion as to who could be at the hospital making arrangements and why any non-family member would want to. I finally called the hospital back, it turned out they were mistaken. So, I got that part done. Now, the daughter who is mentally ill is (among other things) severely OCD and her daily routine is everything to her. Wanting to keep her as calm as I could, I decided to take her to the restaurant where she gets who daily bowl of soup for lunch. I explained she would have to get it to go this time, because we had to go to the funeral home to finalize arrangements. She was quite put out by this, but relented (because she really had no choice). While we were there, I was informed that the plan was to have my uncle cremated. Now understand, Jews don't do cremation, it just isn't done. Think about it, if you must. So, on the way to the funeral home, I spoke with my cousin (the daughter who flew in from Texas and her husband ) about their plans for cremation. She explained emphatically that this was her father's wish. I explained emphatically that not only was this going to mortify family members, particularly the older generation, but in all likelihood the funeral home would refuse to do it and no Rabbi would be willing to perform the service. Little did I know, her husband (the half Christian-half Buddhist, Polish, Russian and Japanese man) works in the industry. He tells me, "on no, more and more Jewish families are moving in this direction these days." Turns out he was right and while no Orthodox or Conservative Rabbi would perform the service under such circumstances, there were a number of Reform Rabbi's who would. My great-grandmother would roll over in her grave, if she knew what is being planned. But, it is the wishes of the family so . . . And you may think me twisted, but I just have to laugh at how incredibly ironic and strange this entire situation is. It is only through laughter that I maintain my own sanity. So, on Friday, my Uncle will be the first member of my family to be cremated outside of a concentration camp. Oh, and the funeral home offered to sell us a "two-part" urn if we wanted. This way my Aunt could daily stare at my Uncle's ashes and the empty half of the urn, knowing someday she would be placed there as well. OY!! Thankfully, they agreed to pass on that particular urn. Because tomorrow is Thanksgiving, the service will be held on Friday (before sundown, thank God). Send your prayers. I think one half of my family is likely to kill the half that thought cremation was a good idea.

CLICK HERE

I have been here since this place opened, and there have always been dissenting opinions. But there is a difference, in how those opinions are expressed. For example, you Oldies, will ask pointed questions, share that your own experience was different, etc. But you are generally respectful and you aren't a broken record. I have defended WhiteDove's "right" (although it really is a privilege, not a right) to post here on a number of occassions. However, even I am sick to death of the broken record he has become. Almost every thread he posts on gets derailed into a "prove it"/"make me" argument that goes on for pages and pages and pages, while the initial topic is lost altogether. I've gotten to a point where if I see his name in a thread, I stop reading the thread because I already know where it is going to end up. And it carries from thread to thread to thread to thread with no end in sight. Now, that isn't ALL White Dove's fault. If people would simply ignore his demand for evidence, he would probably get bored and move on to something else. Perhaps equally irritating, but at least it would be DIFFERENT. However, his demands push people's buttons. People share highly emotional stuff in this forum and it brings up things that are highly emotional for some of the readers. Given the emotionally charged nature of many of the conversations, it is a given that there will always be at least a small handful of people who will take the bait when WhiteDove tosses it out there, and I would be that WhiteDove knows this. So, I don't think it is asking too much, to ask WhiteDove to cease and desist from playing defense counsel for TWI or even from playing defense counsel for his version of "truth." This is a website, not a courtroom. It is a website, not some Christian religious school purporting to propound the truth and nothing but the truth. Truth or facts are highly subjective. How one person perceives an experience and how another person perceives that experience can be very different. There will never be a 100% consensus on most of this stuff, nor does there need to be. The people who post here, or read here, are adults and they can come to their own conclusions without all the word smithing that goes on. One person says Ms. W. said so and so. Someone else comes along and says I never heard that. Great, you never heard it. That doesn't mean she didn't say it. Maybe the person who didn't hear simply wasn't paying attention when it was said, or maybe it didn't seem important enouogh to remember. Maybe the person relaying the story remembered part of it wrong. So what?? No where in the rules does it say all stories must be supported by cold hard evidence that would hold up under the scrutiny of a court of law.

Thank you everyone! It was a very nice, peaceful day. :)