Abigail

lol lol, you are funny Clay. :D

Sounds like a very interesting movie, Tom. I have dabbled in comparative religion and found that the basis of many religions is very similar. Ultimately, I settled on the one that works for me, as I think most people do. It is all part of the journey and the journey never ends, it is only temporarily stayed by our own unwillingness to move forward. But even then, God has a way of giving us a little shove at the appropriate time.

Clay, I understand that too, really. Especially the part about the look and feel. I also get that they do not read every thread in every forum, nor could they possibly. So they generally only know there is a problem if someone complains. However, it seems to me, that to complain every time Allan posts would be to cause them even more work, so I opt not to go that route.

I would add . . . I was more than willing to accept it when some of my posts were edited or deleted due to personal attacks - DESPITE the fact that other posters' personal attacks were left in place. In fact, I apologized and thanked the moderators for the work you do. However, I am sorry, but for me, this just plain old crosses the line into the unacceptable. I did not to my knowledge violate any rules. I did not personally attack and I kept my posts doctrinal. In addition, Allan even acknowedged a willingness to discuss these things when he said. . . "let's discuss the Bible as a Jew and a 'born-again' Christian would, bring it on Abi !!"

I too will remain, Tom, as I gain much from the conversations here and I am glad you will be sticking around a while longer. :)

"Think about it - how different would this world be if instead of fighting each other - we saw the unity." Or to put it in terms Allan might understand, if we "endeavored to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" because "the gentiles should be fellowheirs and of the same body" because "the whole family in heavean and earth is named" that IS what Jesus taught. That is the message of the Torah, it is the message of Jesus, and it is even the message of the Epistles. The problem is that many muddy the message and many never hear it. Hearing it, is the first step on the journy to the inward path.

While I can certainly understand how you would come to those conclusions Tom, I think it is a much much sadder case and that Allan is the epitome of what TWI does to a person. I suspect, somewhere way deep down inside, Allan recognizes the doctrine he clings to for dear life is completely full of holes. This is precisely why people like you, Todd, and Clay scare the crap out of him. Unintentional though it may be, you make those gaping holes undeniably visible. It is fear which causes him to react the way he does - and it is clear,it is reactionary and not thought out. Likewise, it is that deep down inner nagging he cannot ignore, and this is why he keeps returning here day after day. So I say, keep on talking, because though he doth protest too much, Allan IS listening and very likely hearing EXACTLY what his heart is craving. Yeah, he ....es me off too, but when the anger subsides there is nothing left but pity. I, too, once clung desperately to that doctrine. I too could not face the notion I had been duped - that I had practiced evil in the name of righteousness. I think many of us go through this to some degree or another after leaving TWI.

""Galut means ... That's great stuff, Abigail - thanks. I'll take the time to look further." Egypt, Tom. In a way, we are all still in Egypt. Enslaved to the rules and bounds of the physical world. Yet, God has freed us from Egypt, we just don't always remember that. In many ways, that is exactly the crux of what Jesus taught. Jesus taught of the underlying unity. That was a large portion of his message. That is why he became angry with the pharasees in the Temple. That is why he spoke of the good samaritan, that is why he spoke of "he who is without sin" casting the first stone. Ultimately, that is the redemption he spoke of too. Is that not also the message of the epistles? That whether bond or free, Jew or Christian, we are all one in Christ? Is becoming one in Christ truly just a matter of repeating Romans 10:9 and 10 like some sort of mindless formula? Or does it require more of us? Some thoughts and actions with respect to who we are and who those around us are? Truly, that sense of oneness is THE key element that is missing. If there were truly a sense of oneness, would we kill each other off over religion, land, oil? If there were true oneness, would we ignore the hungry begger in the street? If there were true oneness, would we sit at home staring at the t.v. while others work to pay for our food? Think about it - how different would this world be if instead of fighting each other - we saw the unity. People who don't understand see "Mitzvah" as some sort of law or rule one must follow. Another "law" Jesus supposedly set us free from. What they don't get s that Mitzvah is what Jesus taught about. Because when we step ouside ourselves and perform a mitzvah, we truly are taking another step forward down that inward path towards recognizing who we really are. And in doing so, we also reunite another fragmented piece.

Good questions, Clay. If you post as "dancing" are you still Clay? If you reveal information to me about yourself, did I do anything beyond possibly earning your trust? God is the same no matter what name we call him by. I would imagine the same would be true for Jesus, no? Would God condemn a whole nation of people for practicing the sabbath on Friday instead of Sunday? Would God condemn a whole nation of peole for celebrating Ramadan and not Christmas? Would God condemn a whole nation for seeking spiritual truths wherever they might be found instead of seeking them only from one book?

Allan, why shouldn't Tom "butt in"? Afterall, you do it time after time after time after time. Have you noticed that basically no one here appreciates your input? That doesn't stop you from offering your insulting, non logical, non documented, lies and insults does it? Of course what you said wasn't based on scripture. When is anything you post based on fact, much less scripture? So, once again - lacking in any true courage yourself, you must insult those who are NOT lacking in it. In fact, that too is what makes you a bully. Bully's lack courage - they fake courage to try and intimidate others, but in reality they have none. So once again, you will derail a thread with opff topic comments, insults and lies. So what is new. But ya know what, we will continue to have our conversations even if there are sidebars with you.

Clay, you ask some good questions. One of the things that always bothered me about TWI's version of being born again - Christ in you - was that if the "holy spirit" we receive is somehow an entity separate from ourselves and if it is that separate entity that will rise again, then there is no essence of "me" left and in a sense death is a permanent state of being. Todd's understanding of the return of Christ within is very akin to what Judaism teaches, though of course Judaism does not recognize holy spirit in the sense that Christianity teaches it, but rather teaches that it is the soul that continues to live even after the body has died. Some of you might find the entire article interesting, it is HERE But here is the part I thought might be most pertinent to this thread: "But it is the human soul that is both the most complex and the most lofty of souls. Our sages have said: "She is called by five names: Nefesh (soul), Ruach (spirit), Neshamah (breath), Chayah (life) and Yechidah (singularity)."2 The Chassidic masters explain that the soul's five "names" actually describe five levels or dimensions of the soul. Nefesh is the soul as the engine of physical life. Ruach is the emotional self and "personality." Neshamah is the intellectual self. Chayah is the supra-rational self--the seat of will, desire, commitment and faith. Yechidah connotes the essence of the soul--its unity with its source, the singular essence of G-d. For the essence of the soul of man is "literally a part of G-d above"3--a piece of G-d in us, so to speak." From "What is a Soul" by Yanki Tauber

And as usually, he cannot quote scripture or use any form of logic or reason to disagree with what is being said - he can only come back with personal accusations that border on hysteria and are based on his own fears.

And experpts from here "Galut means being imprisoned within a fragmented perception of reality, on all levels: fragmentation in time, space, self and community. It affects how we view ourselves, others, and all the events in our lives. It is our inability to see the underlying unity in all of reality." "Geulah, redemption, on the other hand, is seeing the wholeness, the unity and the underlying G-dliness within creation. It is the perception of the connecting thread and the unifying force in everything--people, places, events" "That is why the Hebrew word for exile, golah differs only in one letter from its counterpart, geulah, redemption. Golah is missing the aleph (one) contained in geulah. It is lacking the perception of Oneness, the unity, the wholeness, the Divine underlying purpose of its creation." "Every mitzvah that we do within galut draws down this aleph within each of us, and within the world at large. Mitzvah means connection. Every mitzvah uncovers the concealed purpose of this moment, or of this created matter, and thereby connects us all to our Creator. Because drawing down this aleph consciousness is something that is in the powers of each and every one of us." One day at a time. One mitzvah at a time.

From here "At first all existed as a single whole in a single thought. Then it fell below, shattering into tiny fragments and fragments of fragments"

I'm back from the lake and reading along. Just wanted to say hi to Tom, it is good to see you again.

Bank robbery advice: Leave address off note HERE Drive-through pot smoke gives pair away HERE

I'm going to be away for a few days, spending time with my children on Lake Michigan. I'll see ya in a while :)

The Kabbalah teaches that death is simply the beginning of a new life. However, IMO for those left behind, it is an enemy because it leaves an emptiness and sorrow in our lives. When my mother was dying I was very young and not ready to let her go. Add to that, I was fully pursuaded that if she would simply believe what was taught in TWI, she would be healed and live. The funny thing is, it is entirely possible my mom was a Christian long before I ever got involved with TWI. After my step-dad died, she took to watching the tv evangelists. Anyway, the truth is that people die. Christian, non-Christian, believer, unbeliever, doesn't matter. For my mom, I am sure death was a relief, she had been sick and suffering for a long time. By the last week or two she was so drugged up she didn't really know where she was or who anyone around her was anyway. I think Hospice helped her set aside her fears of death, so that when she did go, she was at peace.

To be fair and offer what MAY be the other side/perspective . . . . My mom died of cancer not too long after I joined TWI (within the first year). Hospice was very involved during her last few months, even though we were taking care of her at home. I found the experience with hospice to be a very negative one, but ONLY because I was very indoctrinated with the teachings of TWI. So, looking at it from Allan's perspective I do have some understanding of where he is coming from. That being said, I will finish by saying, despite my own misgivings about hospice when my mom was dying, I do know that she found them to be a tremendous comfort.

Confidence without arrogance.

What if he does, Allan? Do you think Bramble or I are to stupid to decide for ourselves? Do you think we need you or someone else to rescue us? IF I were a Christian, I would tell you I already have a savior and don't need another one. ;)

I read this article here and it really got me thinking. I will post some excerpts for those who don't want to read the whole thing: "But what I saw--with an almost painful intensity--was that each one of us, no matter what we were doing or with whom we were doing it, was essentially in our own world. Not necessarily lonely, but alone, our thoughts, longings, our selves on some core level separate from everyone around us." Kabbalah explains that in truth there is nothing but G-d. Everything that exists, whether physical or spiritual, is simply a highly limited expression of its Creator, somewhat like each of your thoughts and actions is a little expression of you. in order to allow for Creation in all of its limitless details and forms, G-d had to conceal His own infinite light. This concealment, known as tzimtzum, is what enables us to be. And more, it allows us to experience ourselves as real, solid, and the center of our universe. But we are not cut off completely. A glimmer of the Infinite light from before Creation surrounds and permeates each person who walks this earth. This light is what gives us the profound sense that there is something else out there. Only the something doesn't always feel like an actual something. It often feels like something missing--a void. But being physical beings in a physical world, we are not naturally inclined to relate to it in this esoteric way. In fact, the non-physical all too often makes us feel vulnerable and uncomfortable. So, instead of slowly allowing our eyes to adjust to this more subtle light, we avoid the experience altogether, or seek to fill the void with physical things. But, as uncomfortable and threatening as it can feel, if you are willing to face the discomfort, to stop running and listen, you can begin to explore the secret of the void, to expand your ability to see and hear things that lie outside your normal range It is fascinating to know that the Hebrew word for "void," challal, has the same numerical value (68) as the word chaim, which means "life." As physical beings, we are primed to seek permanence and stability. But the bad news--the paradoxical news--is that physical things are inherently unstable and impermanent. Coming face to face with this fact can be scary. It can feel, indeed, like hovering over a dark and formless void. But Kabbalah explains that this darkness is really a much vaster and more brilliant form of light--one that's simply too great for our senses to contain Many of us spend our lives attempting to block it out, to run from the darkness, or to create stability and solidity out of things that are intrinsically unstable. Maybe you can let yourself be vulnerable to someone else where you'd normally be defensive, to really listen rather than defend. Or maybe you can take an hour away from work to sit with your children and smile into their eyes, without having to accomplish anything at all. Learn some Torah, give some charity, or take a few minutes to open your heart to your Creator. These things bring more Divine light into the darkness and help to illuminate the void. Whatever you choose to do, if you do it consciously, listening intently for what you haven't been willing to hear before, it will almost certainly help you expand beyond the limitations of who you've known yourself to be. It will help you to embrace a new level of yourself, a new level of being alive.

The list of convicted felons working in Michigan schools was released to the public today. I was very pleased to see that the charter school my kids attend do not have any convicted felons working for them. However, I was appalled by some of the other schools. Lansing public schools came in 3rd place, behind Pontiac and Detroit, for the number of felons. Among the 12 felons (and there were teachers, secretaries, food services, etc.) was everything from multiple larceny convictions on one person, to posession of drugs, to a security guard who was conviced of assualt with a deadly weapon. However, most disturbing was Detroit who must have well over 100 - though I didn't feel like actually counting them all. They included teachers convicted of criminal sexual assualt against a child under 12, two special ed teachers convicted of assault and one of which was also convicted of armed robbery. A fairly large number with drugs convictions, including deliverying/manufacturing and a very very large number with concealed weapons convictions. [Though given where they work, I can almost understand that].

My sister got me hooked on House. I absolutely cannot stand the guy! but I find the science very ineresting