Abigail

Got it and responded. :) George, I'm just too darned stubborn to give up.

It was taught in Believers Family Class. He also taught that it was okay to grope your spouse whenever you wanted to, regardless of whether your spouse wanted you to or not, or felt it was an appropriate time to or not. Afterall, that's just they way men are built and your body is no longer your own once you are married.

What is "the Second Treatise of the Great Seth"? And who was Seth? I've never heard of this one before.

I think Mel gets grief over this while so many others get a pass, and Mel gets press while the murdered Jews do not, because of us, our society. What sells more newspapers? What brings in more viewers? You can only blame the media or the "hollywood elite" so much for this, when they are simply reflecting back to us what it is we want to hear or are willing to spend money to read about. It really is a sad reflection of our culture. "Yet, I don't remember anyone in Hollywood or in the national media saying it was "all over" for Jesse Jackson when back in 1984 he called Jews "Hymies" and referred to New York City as "Hymietown." I don't remember people saying it was "all over" for Michael Moore when he was quoted as placing Israel in his own personal "axis of evil." Why, then, are the Hollywood elite saying it's "all over" for Mel Gibson? " Again, it comes back to what will sell. Jesse Jackson is a politician, one who is not necessarily well loved by the majority of the people. Michael Moore - he makes his money by being contraversial, so again, no shock there. But Mel Gibson - he's a famous movie star and isn't that what is so all important to our culture? Entertainment. The Lifestyle of the rich and famous. It often seems to me we care more about what they are doing than we care about what those actually running our country are doing. Sad.

For the record, Tom, I didn't think you were defending VPW. I took what you were saying as an attempt to see all the way around the thing - all perspectives, all sides. I think that is often a healthy approach to things. My response was just me sharing my personal opinion on the situation.

Tom, I get what you are saying. However, for me there are two issues. VPW wasn't a politician, he was supposed to be a "man of God". Even if you could accurately, scripturally document that it was okay, he would still at best be a hypocrit for teaching one thing to the masses and practicing another thing behind closed doors. But far, far worse than that, how does one biblically document that it is okay to drug or coerce someone into having sex? How is that ever okay?

Yeah Michigan! lol I knew I had read that somewhere before, just couldn't remember where. :)

Well, I think it is a little of both. I get teachings and articles sent to me via email. I had one that said something to the effect that the person was going to send "spies" (his word, not mine) to the various synagogues to make sure the businessmen were participating in the services on the sabbath (the forming of a minion requires 10 men for prayers). If they weren't they were to be excommunicated. I read the email late at night, while letting the dogs out, and was so angry I deleted it. I went back to the website that it came from and cannot find it. Now I am wondering if it was some kind of dream. Then I was reading a series on women in Judaism. Keeping in mind it is a Chassidic website (which is very strict in practice), they really weren't that bad, but that gave me a lot of flashbacks to TWI days. There are definite and distinct teachings from TWI, and I suspect/pray/hope they practice what they teach, unlike TWI -nonetheless it bothered me. But I think, above and beyond all of that - I just need to get out and return to the synagogue I managed on one single occassion to be brave enough to go to, cause all of this learning isn't doing me a lot of good if I can't get out and practice some of it. And I would like to teach more of it to my kids, and that too I think requires more of a community.

Ductape, I have no idea what you are referencing in regard to chat. However, as someone who frequents chat a bit, I can tell you the regulars are a good bunch. But this thread is also a prime example of why people are cautious around here. This is the internet and anyone can come here and pretend to be someone they are not. We do tend to be a close bunch, and even those who take the minority view on topics are cared about, despite disagreements. So, yeah, we try to look out for each other and we are careful to take our time and get to know people. And yes, at times we can even be a very suspicious lot. I am sorry if you were falsely accused of something. But I really do hope that you will take the time to slowly get to know people and allow people to slowly get to know you. But doing that will require a lot of patience and understanding on your part. Many of us longtime cafe goers have seen some pretty nasty people come through the door. Thankfully, few of them stay for more than a few cups of coffee, but some of them have left a heck of a mess in their wake.

Thanks, guys. I think what I need to do is figure out how to practically apply what I am learning. How to incorporate it into my day to day life. And I think I need to get out into a community more. I need to go to temple and give it an honest to goodness try. Just seems that the services that are in English are at a rather inconvenient time and the service that is more convenient is also more traditional and mostly in Hebrew (and significantly longer). I just have to push myself to get out there and do it.

I'm very disappointed. Yet another reminder of how careful we must be on the net. :( I recall the chat conversation and I even recall feeling sorry for WatersEdge. But now I just feel stupid for allowing myself to be gullible once again.

I have come across a number of articles at my favorite research spot that have hit me completely wrong and I am feeling completely uninspired and frustrated. Does this ever happen to you? What do you do when you hit a dry spell?

Belle, does the Bible also not say somewhere that a man should not have a larger family than he can afford to provide for? So what happens if he has 6 kids and cannot afford to provide for any more? Is he then to never again have sex with his wife? But what about those verses that state one is only to abstain from sex for a short time? What happens when his wife hits her mid 40's, is still fertile, and yet to become pregnant becomes high risk? Is it God's will for women to risk their very lives to have children they may never live to raise? How is that a loving commandment for human kind's own good? Sometimes, answering a question with more questions puts a person in a position to have to think a little more logically.

roflol - Roy and QT, too funny! Here is one. My first son, Aaron, would sometimes projectile vomit after drinking his bottle - this was when he was a new born. I was a first time mom, so I was just learning too. The first time it happened, I had fed him and sat him up to burp him, with a little burpy blanket in my hand, under his chin. When he started to projectile vomit, my instinct was to somehow catch it all before it ended up all over the place, so I put the blanket lightly over his mouth. The result was that the vomit shot straight up over his head and all over my face! UGH! I only made that mistake once, I can tell you that!

QT, I have had the same thing happen to me in reverse. Hearing horror stories about leadership I loved and respected. I think a decent portion of the descrepency had to do with personality. Not necessary a lack of personality on behalf of the person who was railroaded, but simply on how well the leadership knew you and whether or not they considered you a friend. Our region coordinator backed me on a number of issues where I disagreed with Way Corp (I was never Corp). But our region coordinator also knew me, as I cleaned their home and spent time with them long before the Way Corp I had issues with came to town. "I have no friends when it comes to the Word" was applied very haphazardly and was largely used to separate one from outside friends and family. Inside TWI, having friends was crucial to survival.

I'm still reading too, Clay. I just haven't had much time to post lately. Things will slow down a bit by Wed. I'm thinking.

Linda, Cats are actually more susceptible to fleas than dogs are, because they tolerate them better. I ran into a similar situation many years ago and what my vet said is that the dogs bring the fleas into the house, but they quickly make a home on the cat. So, if you are only treating your dogs with those expensive little pills, I would recommend to start treating the cat as well. These days I only have dogs, who get those same pills you are using, and no flea problems. But when I had cats :(

I thought some of THIS article was rather fitting with the thread. The article is quite long, so I will quote the pertinent section. The article is called "The Practical Implication of Infinity" and was written by Jonathan Sacks "For the mystic, what counts as reality is the inherent presence of the Infinite behind all the scattered phenomena of the world as we see it. But how can we have a conception of this invisible presence which gives life to everything and yet can never be seen? Yet there is an analogy: the relation of the human soul to the body . . . . What is this "self" or soul, the "I" that we refer to when we talk in the first person? We know it is not the body: our bodies change constantly, yet we remain the same person. It is not even our personality; that too may change. Though I may act and feel differently than I once did, I have not ceased to be me. To this self we give the name of "soul." It is the most mysterious of all phenomena. . . . . The soul may hide its face even from its possessor. From Freud we learned to call this phenomenon the unconscious. . . . . .But this was known long ago to the Jewish mystics. It is just that they took a somewhat different view of what it was like: it was a G-dly soul. . . .The mystical task is to take a journey into the interior of the self, and rescue that love from its hiddenness. Man, at his most spiritual level, does more than relate to G-d: he contains part of the reality of G-d." I AM As the author later points out, this also gives a significantly deeper meaning to "you shall love your neighbor as yourself"? Why? Because if we all contain a part of God, and if God is not many beings, but one - then your neighbor is yourself.

One of my best friends from high school got involved with TWI down in North Carolina, after I witnessed to her and her husband. They took the class, but she did not manifest at the end. She was hounded by her Twig Coordinator about it until she finally got ticked off enough to walk away from TWI. I look back now and think she was much smarter than I.

Todd, I am speechless. I read your initial post last night but was too exhausted to take it in. I re-read it again today and this "I AM the way...the kid said ...man o man how we have misunderstood who he was talking about" clicked perfectly. But again, I was too distracted to really take it in. I just read your second post, wow! I wish I had more time to go back through it again tonight, but fatigue is taking over. I am torn right now, because as you know, I have been on a bit of a quest of late. However, my physical committments are also in need of a great deal of my time right now. We are really pushing to increase enrollment at the boys' school and we are nearing the finish line of what has been a very political property purchase for the school as well. So my time is limited and divided. :( However, I hope you will stick with this thread a bit and I pray to find a couple of hours over the next day or two to come back and really take it in some more and maybe add a thought or two. p.s. Next month CNN will be airing an interview with the superintendent of our school! How cool is that!!! Credit for that deal goes to another board member and our vice-principal, I am still floored that they managed to make that happen. :)

Gosh where to start. Only TWI had the Word. Leave the household (TWI) and you are outside God's hedge of protection. I have no friends when it comes to The Word (which translated into I have no friends outside of TWI) No privacy, financially, physically, or emotionally.

I have mixed feelings on this one, and I think in these situations decisions have to be made on a case by case basis. I agree that by and large, parents should have the final say. I also agree that there needs to be some form of protection in place to protect children, in the event that parents are making decisions based on the wrong information, false hopes, and yes to some extent even religion. I think you also have to factor in the likelihood of survival with conventional medical treatment and the quality of life. IF you are dealing with a situation where the child is unlikely to be cured and survive, and if the treatment is going to dramatically hinder quality of life, then medical treatment should not be forced. On the other hand, if you are dealing with a situation where the odds of survival are high with conventional medical treatment and low without it, then I think the Courts have to step in.

Here's more . . . The temple represents each individual, our inner being. As we draw down the Shechinah into our lives, by living in a Godly fashion (one deed at a time, one day at a time) we rebuild the temple. And I think it is interesting that it is in our times of despair (when we feel our inner temple is in chaos or perile) that we are most inclined to turn toward God.

It is very difficult to be a cheerful giver when the teachings are focused on fear of what will occur if you don't give.

August 3rd is Tish'ah B'Av - it is the anniversary of the destruction of not only the first temple in Jerusalem (by the Babylonians in 423 BCE) but also of the second (by the Romans in 69 CE). It is said that on a spiritual level it represents man's decent into physical and spiritual exile. It is also said on the Shabbat before Tish'ah B'Av, that God will grant your soul a vision of the 3rd Temple to come, a vision we may not see with our eyes or conscious mind, but one our soul receives nonetheless. This is the focus of my studies for the present time and I would love input from others. Here are my thoughts so far . . . .. . The temple represents God's dwelling place on earth. One possible parallel I see, but this is just on a very cursory level is that the destruction of the first temple represents Adam's exile from the Garden of Eden and the destruction of the second Temple represents the flood. I will also share what I learn as I continue my studies.