Abigail

Greg, I don't disagree with you that most of us were adults, and made our own decisions and choices. However, I do think it is helpful to look back and understand what things influenced our decisions. I don't "blame my parents" per se. I love my parents and think that they did the best they knew how. They were imperfect, so what, we all are. But it does help me to understand why I made the choices I made.

Amen to that Mo. But (and you don't have to answer, it is just posed for thought) have you ever wondered why you were willing to work so hard to meet your husband's expectations? I have. Part of it was because I was something of a perfectionist by nature. I had to learn how to accept my imperfections, learn to remind myself that no one is perfect, therefore it is okay for me to not be perfect. But part of it was because I didn't really love myself. I only thought I was worthy, loveable, if I could earn the love of someone else. That one I overcame via two fronts. First, because such thought patterns inevitable lead one to pair up with someone who will reaffirm your own self doubts and self criticims, I realized that I would never find someone who would truly love me for who I was. That as long as I continued with those thought patterns, everyone I paired up with would always want to fix me or change me. The second part was what I said earlier, learning to allow myself to be imperfect - self acceptance. Once I learned to accept and love myself for who I was, I no longer was tolerant of anyone else treating me with less than love and acceptance for who I was. But I learned the wrong thinking patterns from a mother who was very critical, a mother whose approval was rarely ever given. So, in a sense, I guess Sushi's premise does fit for me.

Cain and Abel - why did God find favor with Abel's offerring or as the "Tanakh - New Translation According to Traditional Hebrew Text" words it "The Lord paid heed to Abel and his offering, but to Cain and his offering He paid no heed." Well, it says that "Cain brought an offering to the Lord from the fuit of the soil; and Abel, for his part, brought the choicest of the firstlings of his flock." Hebrew law, which certainly had not been given by Moses at this time but nonetheless may still have been known, requires an offering to be made of the best, choicest parts. It seems Abel did this and Cain did not. I see the lesson to parents as being that we should "pay heed" or acknowledge what our children do for us, even if it isn't the "choicest offering". How can we look at it in a bigger frame, such as the one Oakspear mentioned? Two nations, making offerings - one offering is better than the other.

Oakspear, I like that view of it also. It adds an interesting element to the conversation. Cain and Abel as two nations, God (as the parent) seems to favor one, why? I'll have to dig my Talmud out in a bit, if I can find time. Johniam, my two kids have their share of sibling rivalry too. The boys are fairly close in age, so at times they are pals and at times they can't stand each other - which is what peaked my interest in this topic. Pond, I always felt like I was "daddy's girl" growing up. Though as an adult I am not sure he feels the same way - that's okay though. As a child it was a double edged sword. My brother and sister resented me for it and often did not want to include me in their activities. On the other had, my mom rarely had the time of day for me and I think knowing I was special to my dad went a long way in compensating for that. Dooj, I hear what you are saying about playing favorites with kids, and how at times you might like one better than the other. I love both of my kids equally and yet differently because they are different people. However, there is no doubt that my younger son is usually more pleasant company. I really have to work hard at my relationship with my older son, he is a very high demand and difficult child. Sometimes I feel guilty for finding my younger son easier to be around. Sometimes I worry that I work so hard at having a good relationship with my older son, that my younger son feels left out. Okay, gonna stir the chili and grab my Bible and see what I can find scripturally.

Cats and dogs banned by Saudi religious police Full story is HERE

nevermind.

On some level, you are correct Greasytech. But I was raised by non-religious parents and yet from early childhood I remember wanting to learn about God. Course being the contrary person that I am, I would have to say that although my mom had drill sergeant tendencies from a verbally abusive standpoint - she rarely had the time or inclination to notice her kids at all and we were by and large unsupervised during our childhood.

Not a biblical question, per se, but a child's question nonetheless. My 7 year old has to read for 20 minutes every day as part of his school work, and then I have to sign off that he did. Last night he asked me, "Would I get in trouble if I only read for 19 minutes and 59 seconds?" HAHAHAHA - another aspect of childlike - how far can I push the line and still get away with it.

Exactly Dooj. There are many layers and lessons to the stories no doubt. This is just one layer that has peaked my interest of late. Likewise, the lying and the cheating, even by "men of God". It is fascinating. Do you have kids? More than one? Do you find you feel closer to one than another? If you do, do you think your kids pick up on it? How would that effect them and their relationship with each other? Can these stories be used to teach them about their relationship with each other? Show them that perhaps it is natural for some jealousy and even intense dislike to exist between them sometimes and also show them that despite those things they can love each other? Or they can chose to do as Cain did? Look at Rachel and Leah, competing not only for their husband's love, but love from their father as well! So when we talk today of dysfunctional families, are they truly dysfunctional or are they normal and the Brady Bunch is the dysfunctional family? lol

I've been thinking about the numerous examples of this in the Bible. Cain & Abel; Isaac & Ishmael; Jacob & Esau; Rachel & Leah. I think they are useful stories to teach to my children. I am also looking at them from a larger perspective - how people of different religions interact, different nations, etc. Any thoughts?

Beautiful baby. Too bad his dad seems to have gone off the deep end.

Sudo, I understand what you are saying. I can even see how the intent of the law is to protect children. Unfortunately, such a law would be far to easy to abuse, thus resulting in serious damage to someone's life. Yes, it can be hard to prove such cases when your only witness is a child. Unfortunately, it NOT hard to falsify such a case when your only witness is a child.

Roy! I agree, I can't imagine Noah wanted and ark full of mosquitos! BTW, your answer is better than any I've come up with thus far.

It is about helping kids.

((((Roy)))) Well lately, the boys have been wanting to know why God invented mosquitos. So far the best response I can come up with is because He has a sense of humor. :)

lol Chas, my kids stump me with such questions every day. Usually, I answer them as best as I can, even when it is abstract. I figure they will come back with more questions, but at least it gives me an opportunity to teach them.

We have a CASA program here too. My understanding is that CASA is not about a political agenda to remove parental rights. CASA is about insuring that the best interests of the child are served - to give the child a voice. In this instance, the child would already be under court supervision, or at the very least, there would already be a protective services investigation taking place. A CASA representative gets to know the child and advocates for the child. This could mean advocating to remove parental rights or it could mean advocating to reinstate parental rights. This might help you have a better understading of what CASA is, from HERE What function do Court Appointed Special Advocate (CASA) volunteers serve? CASA volunteers are trained to act as first-hand experts on the individual needs of abused and neglected children in foster care, giving them the best possible chance at a hopeful future. As an appointed member of the court, a CASA volunteer assumes the following core responsibilities: Serve as a fact-finder for the judge by thoroughly researching the background of the assigned case Speak on behalf of the child in the courtroom, representing his or her best interests Act as a "watchdog" for the child for the duration of the case, ensuring it is brought to a swift and appropriate conclusion Judges typically assign CASA volunteers to the most difficult and complex cases involving physical or sexual abuse and neglect. Several other factors are also considered in making this decision: The instability of the child's current placement The presence of conflicting case information Concerns about the implementation of special services, such as medical care, counseling and education assistance

I just started attending a Synagogue here it town. It is a bit intimidating, but my fear isn't about anything LCM taught or didn't teach. My fear is with respect to allowing people into my life, who may intrude further than I wish or who may decide they have some right to run it. But I am facing that fear these days and so far have really been enjoying the services.

Great topic, CW. My mom was a psychologist and the "magical thinking" of believing equals receiving set her warning alarms off! Unfortunately she died while I was still in my early days of TWI. And, unfortunately, she and I did not have a great relationship, so I often didn't listen to her well. But in this instance I can say for sure, "My mother was right and I sure wish I had listened to her."

I apologize, JohnIAm, you did say that.

What TWI taught about breath life, seems to be what Judaism teaches as well. Children are valued, it is a mitzvah to have children. But, the mother's life is the priority, if a choice must be made for medical reasons, the mother's life is to be saved. Beyond that, it is a very very serious issue, not to be taken lightly, but ultimately the decision lies with the woman. But unfortunately, I cannot document anything Biblically beyond what was taught in TWI. I could prossibly find the Rabbinical arguments, but I don't think that is what you are looking for.

if you could make law, Johniam, my best friend from high school would be dead now. She had a partial birth abortion, to abort a baby she desperately wanted, one she spent several years doing infertility treatments to conceive. She did it because she would have died, had she not.

Oh no, T-bone - I wasn't the least bit offended or in any way put off regarding the Christianity part. I was interested in the overall message of the passage you quoted abd was simply agreeing with what was said. I was also tossing out the notion that we are given a framework that allows a healthy expression of emotion. I guess from my perspective, Christianity and Judaism are so much alike, that one can take the "laws of Judaism" and see them as guidelines, a framework, whatever, without being legalistic about it.

T-Bone, I like what you added. I would also add, within the framework of the laws laid out in Judaism, are proper and healthy ways to express emotion. Are they necessarily the ONLY proper and healthy ways? I wouldn't go so far as to say that - but they do strike me as beautiful.

In the context of this conversation I would define weak as: "some see life as getting through this day .. or this drama , or this bad choice and chose to be medicated to do it. that is simply the goal no growth very little understanding and certain of little change in life other than a dose or supply. " Which I found to be a very inappropriate statement for this particular thread. CW, if you are still following this, and Lord knows I wouldn't blame ya if you weren't . . . It takes great courage and strength to acknowledge you have a problem and to ask for help. It takes even greater courage and strength to start a thread like this. You do what you need to do to take care of you and you will come through in spades. ((((CW)))))