Abigail

In this thread, along with James Trimm's thread about his thoughts on VPW, one can get some interesting insights into the mind of a cult leader (or at least a wannabe cult leader). You can see the lies and manipulation, as well as the self-justification and rationalization. James says below: In the first paragraph, he is responding to my statement that HIS website promoting his G'MIRA journal has a place where he is begging for money. He responds by claiming that the website is "directed" by him but is for religious purposes. More lies, manipulation, justification and rationalization. Here is the information I found on the editorial board for his "academic journal" CLICK HERE Here is a link to the same website, where it lists who is in charge CLICK HERE Notice the website is run by James and two of his buddies. Also notice that although he promotes this academic journal as one that is peer reviewed, he has also admitted that he doesn't actually have any "peers" reviewing it. In other words, he lied. He promoted something as peer reviewed that has never actually been peer reviewed. Once again, James answering to no one but James, despite his claims to the contrary. And you are correct James, I have no criticized the content. I haven't read the content. I have no interest in reading the content. The way I see it, if you had something genuine to offer, you wouldn't have to lie and manipulate to promote it.

Bob, please forgive us if some of us are a bit skeptical. But Mr. Trimm has given us good cause to be skeptical on this particular topic. One would think if he had something genuine to offer, he himself would have more honesty and integrity.

"and obviously those websites also solicit tithes and offerings." Geez and I almost missed this. You snuck that in, right in the middle of those two pieces of honesty. James, don't pretend like that website isn't yours, like you aren't the one asking for tithes and offerings and donations. We all know better. That is dishonst and manipulative.

Well I'll say this James, your honesty in this regard is appreciated. However, you mislead people with your talk of 'academic journals" and "peer review" and with false titles of "Dr." and "Rabbi" etc. So, while I do appreciate this moment of honesty, true integrity would include knocking off the word games. You know, if you want people to read your stuff and decide whether they buy into it or not, you'd problably get a lot further if you'd quit trying to sound like something you aren't. There are a number of people here at the cafe who are well studied in the Bible. And by that I mean people who have studied well beyond just what TWI taught. You could learn some things from them and perhaps even teach some things to them, if you would simply change your approach. Coming at people like you have the answer, like you know a thing that no one has heard since the first century church is a big mistake around this place. We've all heard that garbage before.

I notice a simple google search of the g'mira editorial board takes us right to your website and at the bottom of the page you are once again begging for money.

What qualifies it as an academic journal? Your "doctorate" degree from a non-accredited seminary (if you truly even have one)? Your time in a Jewish Seminary (thus your use of the title Rabbi)? Didn't you also say somewhere that it was peer reviewed? Who are the "peers" who reviewed it? Are these articles written by the Rabbi that cite James Trimm or are these written by James Trimm citing the "rabbi"? Or are the "Peers" more of your hand picked friends?

I didn't say believing to research, I said research isn't believing. In other words, you don't have to believe or agree with everything you read or come across in your research. If you are researching a particular topic, say angels, you can read many many books. It doesn't mean you have to accept any one of them as being accurate. But, even the stuff you reject you benefit from learning about. If nothing else, it gives you more information about the beliefs of some of the people who share this world with you.

I had panic attacks for a while after I first left, mostly because a part of me was afraid that what they had said was true. After while, nothing bad happened and I knew I made the right decision to leave. Then the panic attacks stopped. Life has been much, much better since I left. I found an inner strength I didn't know I had until I got out.

In the legal field when one is researching a topic, you keep going until you find yourself back at the beginning again. In other words, you read everything until you reach that place where you are once again reading what you have already read. It takes a great deal of patience sometimes. So, how far is too far? Well, for me far enough is when I have found what I was searching for and I am ready to move on to a new topic. I guess too far would be when I have grown so uninterested in the topic that I have lost motivation/curiosity. Edited to add, researching does not equal believing. ;) You read it, you weigh it and decide if it sits peacefully or not. If it doesn't sit peacefully, toss it aside at least for now.

I sure hope Robert reads the VPW thread started by James in the About the Way forum before he sends the Mr/Dr/Rabbi any cash. ;)

I have a slightly different take on this. I think all of us (or at least many of us) made them the expert by allowing them to tell us how to live our lives. I am not condoning the terrible things perpetrated by some of the leaders in TWI, but we did give allegiance. So, when I was processing out of TWI one of the things I spent a lot of time working on, was understanding what it was about me that made it so easy for them. In doing so, I gained a better understanding of myself and that part of my life.

If it had been one of my grandmothers you would have gotten a pinch in the behind to go with the wink!

the entire concept of receiving revelations could likely be traced back as well. Except of course, in TWI, it was only true revelation if your leadership agreed with it. Speaking in Tongues as taught be TWI for private prayer can be equated with meditation.

A mixture of things. I knew of TWI for quite a few years before I became involved, because I had friends from high school who were involved. I finally made the decision to check them out when I hit rock bottom, so to speak. I was young, my mother was dying, I was trying to get clean and sober and find direction in my life, etc. etc. etc. So, when I wanted to know more about God, TWI sort of seemed like an obvious place to start. HA!

There are overlapping themes among almost all religions. Names change, rituals change, but if you look beneath the surface, the similarities are astounding. Yes, Kabbalah worked it's way into some Christian sects. Kabbalah comes from Judaism. But, I would bet Kabbalah existed even before Judaism, just under a different name and perhaps with different rituals. If you study ancient pagan religions and you read the OT, you will see the shades and shadowing there as well. Rachel and the idol for example.

Personally, I would LOVE to see him come back to the doctrinal forum. I think there could be some very interesting discussions there! But, that is only IF IF IF he can actually participate in a discussion, as opposed to simply posting lectures. For instance, I would LOVE to know what he bases his law regarding weekly synagogue attendence on. I would also LVOE to know how the Book of Mormon somehow fulfilled the commandments regarding the most holy of holy days!! and Gen, I hope you will continue to share. From a study of human behavior perspective, this is quite fascinating.

I don't know James. I think it could be very educational for those here to get a more up close look at a cult leader or at least a cult leader wannabe. Some of us never had an opportunity to know VPW or LCM up close and personal. Sadly, some did.

Oh if only this were in the doctrinal section. So James would require people to attend the Synogogue on a weekly basis, even though Jewish Law has no such decree. But, he would say the most holy of all holidays was fulfilled by the Book of Mormom??? My head hearts just trying to make sense of that!!

I read a beautiful article this morning that shows the heart of a true teacher and leader. The full article CAN BE FOUND HERE I will quote a few of the parts that I found moving: " . . . .today we would not have a Second Passover. But Moses heard the Jews protest "Why should we lose out?" and he saw that it pained them. Seeing their pain, he was pained too. In pain he turned to G‑d, certain that G‑d would respond with a solution that would allow these individuals to have another chance. We cannot just sit quietly; we must all ask "Why should we lose out?" Why should we not be a part of the Jewish tradition to the fullest degree possible—every individual on his or her level? And when we protest, G‑d arranges the possibilities and capabilities to fully participate." This is God's way, not the legalism we have seen offered in this thread. And this as well is God's way . . . . "I have asked: What does a man who was born in Russia and resides in Brooklyn have with Moroccan Jews in Casablanca? What does an Ashkenazi rabbi in the United States have with Sephardic Jews in Morocco? What motivated him to come to their aid? I have one answer. It is because he felt for every single Jew. He was concerned for every individual and for the entire Jewish nation, not just a certain group; and every single person was important to him. He wanted all Jews to follow their parents' traditions, whether it was Ashkenazi or Sephardic." IMO, that is the right way, whether you are Jewish, Christian, Muslem, Pagan, etc. etc. etc.

Either/Or scenarios are often due to black and white thinking :) It is also a logical fallacy in many, many cases. I like the many shades of color we have here at the cafe, myself.

Well, my spelling was off. It is actually the Noahic laws, they are the 7 commandments given to Noah after the flood: 1) to establish courts of justice 2) not to commit blasphemy 3) not to commit idolatry 4) not to commit incest and adultery 5) not to commit bloodshed 6) not to commit robbery and 7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal. SOURCE

James, in some respect I am sorry to see you leave. While I am vehemently opposed to what you are doing in setting up your own little religous organization, I think it could have been interesting to discuss your religous views. Provided, of course, that it could be a real discussion (as opposed to lecture/teaching/preaching) with honest discourse and consideration given.

Nice attempt at dodge and distract, Composer, but you failed to answer the question. What does the word "perfect" mean in the verse you quoted? You are the one who picked the verse and started this thread, afterall. You have proven you are capable of slinging insults, but I have yet to see you actually engage in an intelligent debate. I will consider answering your questions when you have answered mine.

ROFLOL. Now there is a side of you that could actually be likeable. Humor! Good for you James. I'm still not drinking your kool aide, but I can appreciate a good laugh. :)

Sure, so you picked three friends who may or may not even be Jewish and they appointed you as a Rabbi over a school you started. Yup, that's perfectly credible. And what, precisely, qualified your friends to be elders, other than the fact that you wanted it to be so? Then you used your fake ordination to put people under laws that even God never put people under. Yup, this is very fitting for about The Way. VPW got his papermill doctorate, manipulated his ordination, set up a church with a school, and put people under laws that even God never put them under. I guess a cult is a cult is a cult is a cult. The m.o. is the same.