Abigail

The overriding principle is community/village first, and family in context of that community. They see marriages in light of what they contribute to the community and as such the leaders and elders have a say in such matters. Producing children is paramount to a marriage union there. You'll not see divorce for any reason except not bearing children. There, the a#1 reason for a marriage union is to produce children. #2 is probably to insure that those children are productive memebrs of the community. I'm not sure if happiness figures into the mix. Evan, it must be fascinating to be able to observe different cultures firsthand. Someday, I would love to be able to do that. However, I am not sure different equates with better or, for that matter worse. I see the benefits in the lifestyle you presented above. I also see a downside. Self-sacrifice to a point is a good thing. However, if self-sacrifice results in a long and miserable life, then it is too extreme. I think a balance is required somewhere when it comes to prioritizing community needs v. individual needs. I am in no way saying we have found that in this country, I'm just thinking it is a necessary element. At some point, if the bulk of the community is unhappy because of the sacrifices the individuals must make in order for the community to survive, it would seem to me the community would ultimately self-destruct. Likewise, if the community is sacrificed too often in the pursuit of individualism, the community would ultimately self-destruct. To take our Western worldview of personal choice and self-fulfillment and attempt to apply it to biblical concepts causes a dissonance not easily remedied. I am not sure I follow here. Isn't the Bible written to apply to all days, times, and ages? Isn't our western cutlure a part of those days, times, and ages? Are you suggesting that personal choice and self-fulfillment were not a part of God's plan?

Greasy, I sure wish I hadn't watched that! Every time I bring my van in for an oil change I am terrified that I will do just that. I inch forward at a snail's pace and probably irritate the technicians to no end. I wish they would simply pull the car in for me, but I am sure they don't want to get sued for doing that either!

Cool, Shellon! You have yourself a new customer. Uncooked, naturally. Then I can freeze them and bake them when I want. :)

Mark, I think it could still be a valid and interesting discussion. I don't see how drawing from personal experience and/or refuting or discussing personal experience has to turn into button pushing or fighting. It all depends on how it is presented. I drew on personal experience. Ask me questions, challenge me. I don't mind. And even if I did get a bit hot under the collar about something, it will pass and is no big thing. I find this: Face it, the question of having children, not having children, having one child, having a bunch of children, and so on...if one really examines the question, it really deals with fundamental questions of ontology (the study of existance). It alludes to the questions of "What is my place in the universe?" and "Why am I here?" especially interesting. I was thinking about this very thing while I was driving. I was considering what my life would be like right now if I didn't have children. The money I would have, the freedom to come and go as I please, the reduced stress because I wouldn't be faced with the many challenges parents face today. I was also thinking about how empty and void of purpose my life would feel. How all that "stuff" that I would have would mean nothing in the grander scheme of things. Of the little things kids say and do that are such a tremendous reward for the effort put forth in raising them.

Mark, I wasn't offended, I was simply offering a different perspective. Judaism also teaches "be fruitful and multiply." It is a mitzvoh to have children. However, I believe that if, when, and how many children a person has is an indiviual and couples choice, not a religious one. Loving God, desiring to be Godly, does not automatically equate with good parenting or with the ability to raise large numbers of children. Likewise, lacking parenting skills or a lack of desire to be a parent, or lacking the ability to raise a large number of children does not make one ungodly or lacking in a love for God. I can't argue it Biblically because it isn't there in plain black and white, chapter and verse statements. However, it seems to me that simple common sense says if you cannot feed the children you have, having more is wrong. If you have no desire to have children, then having them simply because one believes it is God's will is wrong - it has to be the individuals and couples will too.

Shell, how many can you make?? Or easier, you could give me your recipe! :) They are pasties (short a) not pasties (long a). It is meat. potatoes, onions, carrots baked inside a pastry shell. Sort of like a calzone, but different. Sort of like a pot pie, but different.

Fried smelt - oh man, there is nothing better!! Like eating french fries - crispy on the outside and soft in the middle, but healthier. And Pasties would definitely be regional here - except I can only get them in the Upper Peninsula - no one downstate makes em. :( Chas, my youngest loved grits when he was a baby. He wouldn't eat baby cereal, but he could put away the grits. Go figure! lol He went from that to middle eastern food. LOL

With few exceptions, I think that a couple who intentionally remain childless (emphasis on the word intentionally) have some serious problems with themselves. I think couples who remain intentionally childless are very wise to recognize they do not want children. It would be a disservice to the children and society to have them, when they aren't wanted. And, as has been said before, the families with, intentionally, two, or especially one child are, again with some notable exceptions, do their children no favors. While, again in the norm, the children have their material needs taken care of, the children really don't get the opportunity to learn at a young age to deal in a societal situation. We hear about children becoming more and more overweight and out-of-shape today. I wonder if the studies showing this compare how many of these children come from only child or two child families vice large families? As a parent who intentionally only had two children (the reason I only have two children is because I did not want three), I think I would be doing my two children no favors if I had more. I recognized my limit and stopped when I reached it. While I admire those who can successfully raise larger families, I do not believe I am one of them. However, my children have had and continue to have plenty of opportunities to learn how to deal with societal situations via interaction with each other, their cousins, their playmates and via school, sporting activities, cub scouts, etc. In addition, they are not only NOT over weight or out of shape, but they are physically stronger than many of their peers. The latter I attribute in large part to genetics, but also to the fact that they are kept physically active. The inability to handle social or societal issues is probably due in large part to the lack of proper parental oversight. Lack of proper parental oversight usually stems from one or more of several factors: a) laziness; b) lack of parenting skills; c) two parents working long hours to pay for expensive cars, homes, and toys; d) poverty and/or lack of high wage paying skills which result in the need for both parents to work; and e) single parent homes with little or no child support leaving the single parent with no choice but to work long hours to make ends meet. None of those issues would be solved by having a larger family. In fact, having a larger family would likely intensify them. Likewise, childhood obesity is not due to family size but poor diet and too much time in front of video games and computers - again something that would not be corrected by having more children.

The first one (with the 2 teenagers) is actually being used for a commercial.

Here's a concoction I cooked up tonight. Left over (and already cooked) italian sausage and brats[not kids, the sausage ] (you could probably use any left over meat or skip the meat altogether) 1 can black bean soup 1 can mixed pinto and northern beans left over corn (or whatever other vegie is hanging out in the fridge) 1/2 onion 1 green pepper 2 - 3 cloves of garlic 1/2 cup rice 1/2 cup water throw it all together in a pot and cook it until the rice is done.

Sorry Dooj, but Sushi and I both agree, there is NO SUCH THING as TOO much cheese on pizza.

I cook on Friday's - I usually make Friday's meal the best one of the week. Hiya ExC Trouble maker you! ;)

I never follow recipes (unless I'm making baked goods). Even when I have a recipe, I end up modifying it somehow. Here's my version of homemade salsbury steak, which I made for the first time today: 6 - 8 minute steaks 1 can onion soup 1/2 can water Throw it all in the slow cooker and let it cook for 10 - 12 hours on low. Add in some flour or corn starch to thicken and serve with mashed potatoes. came out reeaaalllll good.

Garlic, hands down. I also keep curry and indian spices on hand. I don't use them as often as I would like, because I am the only one who likes them. However, they are great for left over stews and casseroles (SP) - makes it taste like a completely new dish.

I used to make my guacamole like yours (except with the avacado), but I have found my kids will eat it if I simply mash the avacado, toss in some green onions, garlic powerder, salt, and red pepper. I don't use sour cream because I don't want to add extra calories and fat.

Here's a bean dip receipe that is great for snacks, appetizers, or even a meal Mix one can fat free refried beans with low fat sour cream. Season with salt, chipolte pepper, cummin, chili powder, or whatever else floats your boat. Spread the mixture out on the bottom of a rectangular cake pan. Add a layer of salsa and if you like a layer of guacamole to that. The next layer is shredded lettuce, followed by shredded cheese. Top with diced tomatoes, green onions, and olives. Serve with tortilla chips.

Thanks Dooj!

My receipe is pretty much the same as Rascal's - though I never measure anything, so who can say for sure. The only difference is I leave out the bullion/broth (and the carrots cause Sushi doesn't like them) and simply season with salt and pepper.

This is great!!!! I love this new forum!!!! I am looking for a recipe for hot wings, anyone have a good one?

OMG I can't stop laughing!!!!!!!! The mental image is just too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, here's my own "Sign" story. The day before yesterday I learned that there is a bagel shop across the street from our office building. . I couldn't go home for lunch yesterday, so I decided to stop and pick up a bagel on my way into work. I order my bagel and the girl (English is her first and perhaps only language) asks me if I want "chocheesed". I'm scratching my head and wondering what the heck that means, so I said, "I'm sorry, could you repeat that?". So she asks me again if I want "chocheesed". Now, it has been a very very long time since I have been to a real bagel place and this one had tons of flavored cream cheese, so I'm thinking this must be some new flavor. Just to be sure, I asked her to repeat her question one more time and she once again asks about the "chocheese". I finally looked at her and said, "I'm sorry, but I don't know what that is, so I think I'll pass.". She looked at me like I was a complete idiot and said, "You put it in a machine and it heats it up and browns it." DUH! Where's my sign?

why do people climb Mt. Everest?

yeah, just when you think you have your goals and plan all laid out and things are running smoothly, life has a way of pulling the rug out from underneath you. I have to believe there is a bigger plan with a better goal and that the "rug pulling" is a part of that.

Some of us appreciate the talen that is exhibited in poetic writing.

Our Jacob, who has the attention span of a gnat, came running into the house one evening just as we were putting soup and sandwhiches on the table for dinner. He said, "Mommy! Mommy! Aaron . . . . . . . Oh! Soup!!!!!" We never did find out what Aaron's offense was. To this day, whenever we forget something or have a brain fart we say we "souped" it. Both boys love to ask us questions about every topic on the face of the earth. Some we can answer, many we cannot. Jacob's most recent one was "who was the 100th person ever born?"