Abigail

I wonder how they think prosecution will benefit or in any way help these kids or protect society.

Could you post some pictures?

I guess its a matter of perspective, Rocky. JL and I have certainly had our differences in the tacs forums, but never for one minute did I think he was anything other than a good hearted soul. I am glad he is making good money, I love it when someone's hard work finally pays off and/or someone who works hard finally gets a break. I would add, while couching it terms related to God may have offended some - saying he worked hard and earned it without giving recognition to God, probably would have offended others. I am also impressed with his honesty in openly stating he wants to read the farewells we write to him.

I don't usually post on these threads, probably because I hate goodbyes and prefer see ya soons. Either way, you will be missed and I hope you will drop by for a cup of coffee and a slice of pie from time to time.

Traitor! ;)

Well, I had to do the quiz with the boys. Interesting in that they gave slightly different answers but they both came up with the "Midland" accent. Again accurate for someone from the lower penninsula of Michigan, which is where they are from.

"North Central" is what professional linguists call the Minnesota accent. If you saw "Fargo" you probably didn't think the characters sounded very out of the ordinary. Outsiders probably mistake you for a Canadian a lot. And here I was thinking I had lost my "Canadian" accent many many many years ago! I'm not from Minnesota, but I am from the Upper Penninsula of Michigan, same basic dialect as someone from Minnesota, which is very much like a Canadian accent. Very funny!! Especially because I tell Sushi he talks funny with his Jersey accent.

I guess it depends on the circumstances, the person, and what is to be gained or lost by it. I've read awful stories about leadership I really liked. It doesn't really change my memories of them. I am thankful I had a different experience and I don't doubt that their experience was equally terrible. I have also run into people who liked people I thought were horrible - same deal. We had different experiences with people, lots of factors. Era, personality conflicts that may or may not have arose, etc.

Yeah, I think it is possible. Yet, I am also highly skepitcal of those who claim they can - it usually requires the giving of money Really, though, it is not a subject I really care to delve into - perhaps I've seen too many horror movies growing up.

I too must thank our heavenly Father for boys, especially so, because I was once a teenaged girl and my parents cursed me with the curse of one day having one just like me!

To my knowledge, having a personality order isn't carte blanc to deny responsibility, and it most certainly doesn't render someone automatically incapable of holding gainful employment. My close family member, who is bipolar, is employed, as been with the same company for about 10 years, and has worked her way up the corp. ladder. She is fortunate though, in that she is not severely bipolar and has been able to find medications that work. However, it took several years to find the right meds. I don't know how things work in other states, but in Michigan, getting SSI for a personality disorder, or even for a physical disorder, is a daunting and difficult task. It usually requies the assistance of an attorney - and if you can't afford one (and what unemployed, physically or otherwise disabled person can?) you can pretty much forget it. Here they say it is a given that your application will be denied right off the bat, and you will have to go through one, if not several appeals before you are approved for disability. It usually takes a year or more. In fact, it is because they cannot get disability that they must apply for welfare. Of course, disability isn't going to cover the bills anyway and a person will probably need assistance from both.

If you ask a psychiatrist what are the most difficult parts about treating mental illnesses, they will tell that after the proper diagnosis is found, and the right medicaction (which often comes down to trial and error), it is getting patients to take their medication. The reason for this is because mentally ill people usually do not think logically and rationally (hence the label mentally ill). To most people, the notion of I have an illness and therefore need to take this medication may be simple and straightforward. To someone who's brain does not fuction normally, it is not so simple and straightforward.

Its a close call between Christian Family Sex and Lifestyles of a Believer, but I think the latter actually wins by a hair.

Yeah, Sushi and I had a good laugh over my MD20-20 Star of David too. Ever drink Manechevitz (sp) wine? It is a very popular Jewish wine for holidays (at least among my family). Stuff tastes like MD22 and believe me, if I drank a glass instead of sip every time we were supposed to during some of the holiday meals, I'd be passed out drunk before the ceremony was over!

Well, religiously it really means nothing at all. Or it can mean alot. :) Again, no rigid doctrine. HERE is an article that gives a history and explanation. I will quote a few excerpts: . . . . . It is supposed to represent the shape of King David's shield (or perhaps the emblem on it), but there is really no support for that claim in any early rabbinic literature. In fact, the symbol is so rare in early Jewish literature and artwork that art dealers suspect forgery if they find the symbol in early Jewish works. Scholars such as Franz Rosenzweig have attributed deep theological significance to the symbol. For example, some note that the top triangle strives upward, toward G-d, while the lower triangle strives downward, toward the real world. Some note that the intertwining makes the triangles inseparable, like the Jewish people. Some say that the three sides represent the three types of Jews: Kohanim, Levites and Israel. Some note that there are actually 12 sides (3 exterior and 3 interior on each triangle), representing the 12 tribes. While these theories are theologically interesting, they have little basis in historical fact. . . . The Magen David gained popularity as a symbol of Judaism when it was adopted as the emblem of the Zionist movement in 1897, but the symbol continued to be controversial for many years afterward. When the modern state of Israel was founded, there was much debate over whether this symbol should be used on the flag. Today, the Magen David is a universally recognized symbol of Jewry. It appears on the flag of the state of Israel, and the Israeli equivalent of the Red Cross is known as the Red Magen David.

I could, but it might take a very very long time. In short, I believe what he taught. However, my entire perception and understanding of what he taught is entirely different than what I was taught in TWI.

Dot, I am familiar with Messianic Judaism, but it is not what I practice. Your doc's are correct, in that MOST Jewish sects do not prostelitize, with the exception of Chabad. The reasoning is thus (in simplified format): All of our souls were created with specific purposes. If you were born Jewish you have one set of possible purposes, if you were not born Jewish you have another set of possible purposes. Not that one is better than another, just that they are unique/different. Those who are not Jewish have laws they must follow, but much much fewer - what they call the Noahide (sp) laws. Because being Jewish is harder (in that there are more laws to follow), it is felt that one must be fully informed and very very sure before they make the committment to take on these laws. The Chabad's prostelitize because they believe with the dispora, many have lost the knowledge of our forefathers. They Prostelitize first and foremost to their Jewish kin. However, they will also prostelitize to those who are not Jewish because it is possible there are many people out there who are of Jewish decent, but don't know it. Many Jews were forced into conversion generations ago and thus their decedents are unaware of the history. They feel if you are "called to Judaism" you have a Jewish soul, regardless of what your heritage is. I consider myself Jewish. I also believe in Jesus. Through studying Kaballah (not the Madonna, modern pop-culture kaballah, but the Jewish Kaballah) I have come to view Jesus in a very real, but very different light that traditional Christianity teaches. You may find that you will learn much from Judaism that will bless you and benefit your life as a Christian - and converstion isn't required to learn. :)

Potato, I could be mistaken, but having conversed with Mark on many occassions and on many topics, I strongly suspect what Mark meant by that statement was simpy that it would be better to remain celibate than try to wade through all of the legal and moral issues involved in sex outside the marital relationship.

Dot, You may find this information interesting. It is from a Chassidic website. I do not practice Chassidism, I am simply not disciplined enough for that. But I believe much of what they teach and value much of what they value. One of the fundamental beliefs of Judaism is that life does not begin with birth nor end with death. This is articulated in the verse in Kohelet (Ecclesiastes), "And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to G-d, who gave it." [1] i) the wholly spiritual existence of the soul before it enters the body; ii) physical life; iii) post-physical life in Gan Eden (the "Garden of Eden," also called "Heaven" and "Paradise"); iv) the "World to Come" (Olam HaBa) that follows the resurrection of the dead. I am not going to post the whole article, because it is quite lengthy. But the point is, while your two Jewish co-workers may not believe in heaven, many Jewish people do. You will find there is much diversity within Judaism regarding spiritual issues - much freedom to study and formulate your own beliefs, much freedom to debate. Jewish people are bound by some very core principals and traditions - and even within those, there is still diversity. For instance, while you may find disagreement within Judaism regarding the existence of heaven, you will find great solidarity regarding the idea that we are here to give and make our world a better place. BTW, I happen to agree with you - the notion that there is nothing after this life is very depressing and discouraging.

While these women are responsible for getting pregnant and having children they cannot afford, the responsibility is not their's alone. It takes two to make a baby and there are far, far too many daddies out there who refuse to help raise their children, financially and otherwise.

Which is precisely why there should not be a hard and fast (ahhhh, yeah) law - a jury needs to be presented with a case and make a decision. Because both sides have valid points. Yes, you do need to take responsibility for your actions and in general you should not cry rape halfway through an act you consented to. However, if you are in pain that is a different circumstance. If the man said he would wear a condom and lied, that is a different circumstance. BUT if you are with someone you know, love, trust, and have built a good relationship with, then odds are good he would stop if you said stop. If you are with someone you don't know and therefore cannot trust, you have put yourself in a very foolish and unwise place. If you are with someone who is abusive and for whatever reason have not been able to get out of that relationship, that again is a different situation. We cannot make a one law fits every circumstance.

Happy Birthday, Shellon!!!! I hope you sing a kareoke song or two for us!!

Judaism does not view the Satan of Job as an evil being. The Satan of Job is a spirit being, like Michael, Gabriel, etc. Satan's job was to go to and from in the earth and watch the people. Once a year, at Yom Kippur, Satan would report to God about the doings of the people, as God was deciding whose name would be written in the Book of Life for the upcoming year. Now, if you think about it, the idea that God needs someone else to see what each man is up to is something of a contradiction to the concept of God being all knowing and all powerful. Thus, the entire concept of Satan, in the book of Job and elsewhere, is figurative. Many Christian denominations twist things around to make things fit in a literal format. In order for Satan to be literal - for Satan to literally be the God of this Word, there has to be all of these other laws that the all powerful God must follow. There has to be a literal person who died and rose from the dead to bring us salvation. A person who was God's only begotten son, who apparently even God couldn't or wouldn't spare. A salvation, I might add, that seems to do little good for us in the here and now, because it still rains on the just and unjust alike. Somehow, the all powerful God is bound by rules that the God of this world is not. Yet, ironically, salvation was available before the all loving father allowed his only begotten son to be murdered. Not through following the laws perfectly, either, as some who know not so much about Judaism would tell you. Which again makes me wonder what exactly was the point of the all powerful god allowing the less than powerful devil murder his son? I guess that makes sense to some people. I know I bought into it at one time too - though a part of me also always questioned the validity of the logic. However, if we quit trying to take it all so literally - if we simply sit back and look for the bigger picture, the bigger lesson, it all begins to take on a more personal meaning. It requires less twisting and knotting to make a logic that really isn't there. And none of that is intended to be a slam against Christianity as a whole, or the teachings of Jesus. It is simply a statment about literalism and fundamentalism. About taking lessons that could be so simple and beautiful, and twisting them around to create a whole new set of laws for people to try to aspire to. If we couldn't perfectly follow the laws God laid out for us via Moses, why on earth would we try to create an entirely new set of them? Ones which are so difficult, we can't even beging to figure out or agree upon what they mean or how they are to be applied, or even to whom they are to be applied??

As I said, it is viewed figuratively, not literally.

Dot, it isn't that Jew's don't believe in heaven or hell. Some do, some don't. But really, is simply not our focus. Our focus is on how to make this life, our home, our family, our community, and our world a better place. There is enough to do in the here and now, without being all caught up in debates about the next life. As Jesus said, sufficient unto today is the evil thereof - or however exactly he said it. You get the idea. From my understanding and study, Jews simply don't have a set in stone doctrine regarding heaven and hell. You will find pockets of people who as a group believe one way or another, but overall it is up to the individual to study and decide for themselves.