Abigail

I know Nate. I went to Jr. High and high school with him! Wow - what a blast from the past. He won't know me as abigial, though, it's not my real name.

Larry, I never knew you were a doctor, how fascinating!!

The word "obtuse" comes to mind.

Exactly, T-bone. If we cannot sense/recognize our connectedness to the beautiful world God created, how will we ever truly recognize our connectedness and completeness with God? Likewise, if we reject what God has created, do we not reject some portion of God as well? And boundaries, yes, definitely healthy boundaries given by God so that we truly can love our neighbors.

You can't truly reject that which you do not understand, you can only chose to try and understand or continue in ignornace. Nevermind. Accept it, reject it, your choice. We speak different languages I think.

No, I wasn't suggesting you read his work, and it is likely you would get little out of it at this time anyway. SHRUG. I was offering a perspective. It is a perspective you cannot or chose not to even attempt to understand. Your loss. BTW, nice try with the Holocaust remark, but all it did was reiterate that you didn't "get it".

Awe, thanks. Not only is it NOT cruel to the animals, but killing an animal according to the laws is MUCH more humane that what occurs in the slaughterhouses today.

You miss the point Larry, nevermind. Perhaps another day another time, perhaps not.

Trying to practice it is boggling. I can't anyway - there are no Kosher stores around here. But, I like understanding the meaning behind it and incorporating things here and there when I can, as a reminder to myself.

By Tzvi Freeman

Shifra, I was doing some reading and came across something that I thought I would toss into the mix here. throughout the epistles, the writers talk about the return of Christ as if they expect it to happen any day now, yet it doesn't. This could make it appear as if they were mistaken, wrong about the immenent return. In Judaism, it is taught that we are to live our lives as if today is the day the Messiah will come. Every day we are to believe all over again that today is the day. If you consider that the Apostles were Jewish before they were Christian, it makes their message clearer.

That sure could explain some of the funky dreams and visions!

That is interesting, Sunesis. I have never run across a hatred of Paul on the Jewish websites I have visited. In fact, there are no discussions of him at all. I don't hate Paul. I see in his teachings many of the teachings of Kabbalah, as I do in what Jesus taught. I think much is lost in translation because so many do not have the foundation of kabbalah and therefore do not understand what Paul was saying. I think much is also lost because people take things too literally, instead of viewing the time period within which the words were written, and/or because they somehow want to transform our society backwards into that time period. Nevertheless, I think anytime we question what is taught and do our own research and study, we grow in leaps and bounds. For that reason, I strongly encourage Shifra to go with her theory and search it out. It matters not to me what conclusion she reaches in the end, it is the journey that is important, IMO.

I will try as I have time and things occur to me. I only hope that I can communicate it well. One of the things that comes to mind off the top of my head is the law about seething a calf in its mother's milk. Now there is a law I always found confusing and the practice of it, even today, requires more than you would imagine. But the point of the law, as it was taught to me, stems from respect for all things living. To acknowledge and respect the meat we eat, to recoginize it was a living thing that gave its life to us, so that we might have life. Native Americans have this concept as well. If one practices this law, as with all the laws of keeping kosher, it requires you to put much thought into your food preparation. The result of that thought is a respect and thankfulness, far far beyond the simple repetitive "blessing over a meal." There is a real sense of connectedness to the earth, the animals and vegetation that are here to sustain us, and to God for designing and creating the whole thing. When you have this sense of connectedness, as you develop it and build upon it, you have more care for (emotionally, spiritually, and via physical action) the things around you, out of genuine love and respect instead of out of legalism, coersion, obligation, etc.

I have come to have a better (and by no means anywhere near complete) understanding and appreciation for what this means by learning what the OT laws meant. I haven't learned them all, by any stretch, but I am learning. That isn't to say we have to live by OT laws, but they are there for our learning, yes? They are there for a purpose still, then, yes? I do know this, it does go beyond simply treating someone as you would like to be treated, because how you like to be treated is not necessarily what your neighbor wants.

Don't sweat it Larry, it is never meaningless. We all get from it what we need. Even in disagreement and contradiction, you have from it what you need, as do I, as does Sir, as does Cman. Communication can get difficult. It can be difficult not to pick apart words and try to find all their meanings (I get caught up in that a lot). It can be equally difficult not to shut out all meanings and see only black and white, in order to not get lost in the multitude of possibilities.

ROFLMAO - Preach it, Shifra!!! It is a pleasure to meet you down here in the basement where so few seem brave enough to venture! :)

There are many layers to the definition of many biblical words.

Many modern religions have this in some form or fashion, including Judaism and even Christianity. Hence, Yom Kippur and Easter.

Shifra, I say, go with it, study it, and see what you uncover. I am not a fan of Paul's either, but I no longer view the Bible as being entirely "god breathed." I think God can be found in the Bible, but I see it as a history of mankind - a book with numerous lessons we can learn from.

Well stated, Sir. And yet, for all it's simplicity, it really is a difficult thing to grasp, internalize, and live because it is abstract instead of concrete. The concrete is so much easier to hold on to and make sense of. It is all good, for so very many reasons. Even when that which we do is "evil" it is not really evil, for God, taking advantage of evil, works it to our good - or something like that. :)

That particuular lake is Superior. Somewhere else in the gallery I have pictures of Lakes Michigan and Huron as well.

Interesting explanation, Larry. In Judaism, many would say it wasn't a "fall" from a higher plain to a lower one. In fact, they would say the exact opposite occured and they went from a lower plain to a higher one. How could the "tree of knowledge" i.e. gaining knowledge, bring one to a lower plain of existence?

in the upper penninsula of Michigan. Turns out her place is about 1 1/2 hours from my dad's place. I believe THIS LINK will get you to the pictures