Abigail

If I remember correctly, there are verses that would indicate they weren't all killed off in the flood. I will have to see if I can find them again. :)

Please check your PM's! I wasn't ignoring you or trying to be rude. I was posting on the forums and didn't see you come in!

My "pre-marriage" counselling pretty much consisted of taking classes. I had to take all the required classes for the advanced class and then we both had to be registered for the advanced class. The clergy was willing to marry us before the advanced class, provided we were registered, so we could take it as a married couple for our honeymoon. Beyond that, there really wasn't any counseling. I think I recall being asked if I was willing to "submit" to the man I was going to marry, but it was never explained to me what that meant. Nor do I think there was ever any explanation for what it meant to love your wife as Christ loved the church. Then again, TWI never did focus much on that aspect of the marriage relationship, compared to the emphasis on the submission part. At least, that is how it was during the 90's.

Welcome to the cafe Horseshead. I'm Abigail and you can call me Abigail, Abi, Abbey, almost anything but late for dinner. :) I do want you to know, so you aren't surprised, this place isn't limited to Christians. While the majority here probably are Christians, you will find people of many faiths and of no faith here. Down here in the basement doctrinal section we do try (though we don't always succeed) to keep discussions friendly. In the "upper rooms" things can get rather tense at times. Please try not to take that too personally, we all work through our "stuff" differently. So how do you like your coffee? Do you think you will stay around for desert?

We have several black walnut trees in our yard. Usually the nuts have worms in them though :( UGH! Also, they will stain your clothing!!! We don't eat them. The squirrels, on the otherhand LOVE them. In the fall, when they really start coming off the tree, we pay the kids to bag them up and then we dump them in a big pile outside the fenced part of the yard (so the dogs can't eat the squirrels as the squirrels eat the nuts :) ).

LOL No Oldies, that isn't what I do. :) Like you, I hold fast to having no other God before Jehovah. But if others are comfortable calling Jesus God, if others believe in the Trinity, it matters not to me, nor would I be so arrogant as to tell them they were "off the Word", committing idolatry, etc. We all have to chose the path that makes the most sense to us. We all have to form our own individual relationship with God and call Him by the name we know him by.

There are some very moving and healing words in this thread!!

Sudo, you sure got me with that one. I did wonder if it was Chas, but I was no where near certain enough to make a guess at it. LOL I know everyone in the newest picture posted by BOW too. Lets see, we have our resident professor/libertarian and son. Then we have my ever sweet future daughter-in-law and her wonderful mother!

Abigail would tell you she has never really tried to "work" that particular verse before. I have looked at it in several "versions" though and in some the second "your god" is left out. None of it really tells me anything for certain, honestly. I would wonder when Hebrews was written as well. But even that doesn't guarantee a satisfactory answer. So I go back to Isaiah and conclude God already knew Jesus would be called these things and didn't seem to mind, so why would I mind?

Here is what I get out of that verse, FWIW. It says he will be CALLED these things, it doesn't say he IS these things. That said, it seems to me by the "tone" it appears to me to be written with, that it is OKAY with God that he is called these things. And ya know, apparently, he is called all of those things and if it is okay with God I'm certainly not going to argue about it. :D

ROFLMAO, Dan. Well I know Sushi will enjoy this thread!!! He LOVES that scene from that movie. HA!

LOL - that is beautiful, Bramble!! It really sums it up and says it all.

Yeah, you did just fine Shifra. Even with you post previous to this one, I understood more or less where you were coming from. Your last post, though, really did add extra dimension to it. :)

See Rascal, that is why I love you and count you as a true friend. :)

Thanks Shifra. Perhaps someday I will be fortunate enough to experience that true manifestation. In the meantime, I guess the quest continues. :)

Rascal, I agree with everything you just said. I will only add, it also takes time. Time to sort and process. Time to assess the information. It took me quite some time to come to terms with the idea that VPW did the things he did. It took reading the account of more than one woman. It took getting to know at least know of those women over time. And space too, because too much too fast is just plain overwhelming.

Rascal, if I had that much power would I be drugging and raping? Destroying lives deliberately? No. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't do other things that were wrong and hurtful. I strongly believe that a public body (I use the term public somewhat loosely here) be it a school, a government, or even a church, needs a system of checks and balances. I sit on a school board. I would hate to think of what would happen if any one person on the board, or if the superintendent had all the power. I hate to think what would happen if all the board members and the superintendent were all buddy buddy and no one spoke up with differing view points or in opposition to something they thought was a bad idea. I don't know all the ins and outs of every issue that comes before the board - it would be impossible for me too. Nor does anyone else who sits on that board. But TOGETHER, with the input of everyone, I think we usually make pretty good decisions. I think it should be the same with churches. They need a board of directors that can function properly.

Garth, I think it is even simpler than that. To defend the execution of religious "heretics" is, IMO akin to saying the fundamental Muslem's who use their religion as an excuse the blow up buildings simply don't know any better. Both groups are killing innocent people and justifying it based on religious doctrine, no? On the other side of the coin, it would seem the history of many religions is filled with bloodshed in the name of "God". A very very sad thing, IMO.

Thanks (((Todd)))

No problem Sudo, I've got your back On the other hand, the picture has me completely stumped.

<<<Abigail is biting her tongue and hoping Shifra will expand upon her statement>>>

Try reducing the size of the picture. If you don't know how and you'd like help, you can email them to me at Abigail0900@yahoo.com and I'll upload them for you or I can reduce them and send them back to you. :)

Okay, Sudo seems to have fallen asleep on the job, so here's another one for you to take a shot at. He doesn't post here as often as he once did, but he still crops up from time to time.