Abigail

1. I think it is an absolute ourtrage to convict an 18 year old of a sex crime, publicly humilate him, and harm his chances for a decent future for consensual sex with a 16 year old. 2. If I had an honest to goodness pedophile (an adult who had sex with a child) living next door to me I would move too. Not because of money or social status or humliation, but because I would do everything possible to protect my children from the risk of becoming another victim. I'm fairly certain this is what Krys meant as well.

In the upper left hand corner of this thread you will see a box which says "Go". Click on it. Then click "My space" and then "private topics" there you will find me. :)--> Peace my friend.

I knew you didn't Exie. I did know what you meant and I am sorry if I added to your confusion. But after all the years of harsh words via TWI, and all the harsh words that are frequently posted here, I guess I was just trying to make a point. Sorry. p.s. If its any consolation, I cannot even begin to imagine you saying words which would cause someone permanent damage inside. Even if you could, you would feel so bad afterwards that you would be apologizing and working overtime to fix it and make it right. :)-->

"but murder, for instance, is a lot different than hurting someone's feelings with, say, an angry word" Yes and no. Hurt the wrong persons feelings with the wrong angry words and you could kill something very important inside of them.

MO, Now that is scary! Though I am the same way sometimes. I'll be working on something and need to go to the bathroom or something and I'll be thinking, "I need to hurry up and finish this" instead of just stopping what I'm doing. Though, I think in my case, it is often because I am "on a roll" and I don't want to lose that roll.

"Whether TWI developed those OCD's in ones life or one had those habits prior TWI~~~ Well?" Perhaps a little of both, but I think TWI definitely exacerbated things. 1. I was never stiff or formal around people pre-TWI, in fact it was the exact opposite. 2. My mom was definitely a neat freak and I am sure I learned some of that from here. However I was never a neat freak until TWI. 3. I have never liked being late because in school, if you walked in late, the entire class looked at you and I just wanted to shrivel up and disappear. However, I was never as bad then as I am now. Now I will get worried about being late to work when it doesn't even matter if I am. I normally arrive at 8:15 but honestly, if I didn't show up until 9, my boss wouldn't even blink an eye. But I still worry about it. 4. Being driven to get stuff done definitely comes from twi. Pre TWI, I could care less. I wasn't even a good student in school because I didn't care if I got my work done or not. But I remember when the guilt about being lazy first started cropping up and it was definitely in TWI.

Hang something on my refrigerator? eeek!!! Just kidding, I have stuff hanging all over the fridge from the kids. :)--> I love Erma Bombeck, I used to read her books when I was a teenager. I have made progress in breaking out of the mold. Remember how in TWI everyone's houses were either white or light pastels? Well we moved into a new house this past spring that was white from top to bottom, even the carpet. I started small by putting bright flowers and butterflies on the bathroom walls with a really colorful shower curtain. Then I put a bunch of very colorful throw rugs, blankets and pillows in the livingroom. I painted the "breakfast nook" walls of the kitchen orange. Then two weeks ago I painted my cupboards yellow and purple. It is hideously wonderfuly colorful and the kitchen has now become my favorite room in the house. Last weekend we had the pleasure of Oenophile's company and we are hoping in the very near future that Shell will come pay us a visit. We are also hoping Oen will come visit again very soon.

1. I am absolutely petrified of being late for anything. (one time I was reproved for being five minutes early instead of 10). The result is I have to fight the feeling that the clock is constantly nipping at my behind. It is very very frustrating. 2. I must accomplish "stuff" during the day, cannot take a day off without feeling bad about myself. 3. I cannot stand for my house to be even a little bit disorganized (which it usually is so I drive myself nuts) 4. All my "sponsies" must be done before I can really relax, which means I never get to. Prior to twi I was a bit of a slob. Now I find myself driven to get everything done. A happy medium would be nice for a change. 5. This one is really the one that bothers me the most - figuring out how to entertain. I used to be very relaxed about having people over. It was mi casa su casa. Now I feel very stiff and formal and can't seem to relax. I keep thinking my guest(s) are going to notice the dust I missed when I was cleaning or are going to think I am a bad hostess.

Song, please check your private topics. Peace

That is absolutely hillarious!!!

I am amiable with driver being a very very close second. I guess that makes me passive agressive, eh? :)-->

just wanted to say I am reading with interest and looking forward to more.

"Just simply that, God doesnt spare us any circumstances wether false doctrines (TWI) ,difficulty with others or lifes other problems in an effort to get us to use his provisions for overcoming the crap." Well Sky, first I have to say I am not convinced that the crap we have to face in this life comes from God. I would then go on to say, recognizing we cannot change the past, letting go, and moving forward with one's life is hardly swimming downstream. In fact, I would suggest it is the very opposite. peace

TWI may have said there were over 900 promises, but they taught them and used them as over 900 threats.

Shelly, "There is a lot of strength to be gained in fighting for your sanity, staying afloat amidst the reproof and corrections, simply surviving what could very well have drown me. " Exactly. When I finally left twi and stood on my own two feet, when I look back and see where I was and how far I've come, I realize that I have a lot more strength than I ever gave myself credit for prior to my twi days. Knowing that helps me to have the strength I sometimes need to face the new challanges that life throws at me from time to time.

"Isnt that kind of the reason why we forgive tho, is because what someone done was wrong. I understand what the motivation was. It was power and control. It was self serving from the top. This was the motive that "inspired the doctrine." No, not me Sky. I forgive because I understand the reasoning behind the behavior. Motives such as what you mentioned, are in my opinion, unforgiveable unless the person has changed and is no longer motivated by such things. My comment: Restitution is impossible. There is no way to regain what is lost so it is better to simply grieve and move on, taking with me the knowledge that despite it all and more likely because of it all, I am a stronger and better person now than I was four or five years ago. Your response: I dont know about that either abby. If you swim downstream all your life you never get any muscles. This I don't understand at all, can you please explain to me what you mean?

" Abigail, I was referring to a definition of forgiveness posted earlier on this thread. If you believe there is a difference between "letting go..." and forgiveness, can you cite a better definition, or at least clarify your reasons?" Satori, I must have missed that definition in my reading/scanning of the many posts in this thread. For me, forgiving has to do with understanding. I have no difficulty forgiving my children, for example, because I understand the causes of the behaviors which need forgiveness. I can even forgive my ex-husband for the verbal and physical abuse, because I understand the emotions behind it and the upbringing he had. The powers that be in TWI, LCM et al. I don't understand. I have not found a motive behind what they have done which is understandable and/or forgiveable. Perhaps if I knew them in a more face to face relationship instead of the more disengaged and objectified one, I might be able to see a series of causes and effects which would lead to their "bad behaviors" which I could find understandable and forgiveable. But that is not the case. However, I can (and have) let go of the fear, hurt, and anger which was once so much a part of my life after I left TWI and learned what was going on behind the scenes. Additionally, I have no burning need for revenger or restitution. I tend to lean toward karma and believing that what goes around comes around and a poetic justice will be served at some point in time, but it is not something I feel a need to participate in or concern myself with and if that poetic justice never came to be, it really makes no difference to me. Restitution is impossible. There is no way to regain what is lost so it is better to simply grieve and move on, taking with me the knowledge that despite it all and more likely because of it all, I am a stronger and better person now than I was four or five years ago.

"This is a form of forgiveness, isn't it? Without absolving them of guilt or responsibility, aren't you excusing their behavior as the natural outcome of their nature? " and "It feels good to call them jerks, but there's a cost. It reinforces our anger, rather than releasing it - " I'm not sure it's so much a form of forgiveness, perhaps it is simply a letting go of the hurt, anger, etc. I think there is a difference. Additionally, categorizing them as "jerks" may not reinforce the anger but simply make it easier to dismiss them by objectifying them. Either way, I think it is healthy to let go of the hurt and anger, though each individual has to vent, grieve, and heal in their own time. But letting go of the negative emtions doesn't necessarily have to be equated with forgiveness or with forgetting. After all, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice . . . .

Well Paw, we might be. There was talk earlier of the possibility of Ohio, which is much closer to home (and less time stuck in a car with young children) than Tennessee. :)-->

Forgive, sure. Forget, no. I run into people from TWI from time to time, most recently my old twig coordinators. Their son has been playing soccer on a team against my son. I have no bad feelings towards them whatsoever (though there was a time when I did). I am the one who approached them with friendly conversation, hi how are ya's, etc. It is not the individuals within TWI I have a problem with, it is the organization as a whole. Though I forgive, I will still speak my mind regarding the probelms within TWI which lead to an abuse of power (among other things) and how that abuse has manifested itself and affected my life.

Every time I here George W. speak, I get chills up and down my spine because he reminds me of listening to LCM. Seriously, I can't listen to him.

Most of that stuff I don't worry about. I am no longer convinced the Bible was ever a perfect and always consistent thing. I think it is a history of humanity's relationship with God, usually told from the perspective of men. Inconsistencies don't worry me, I just look for the truths that sit peacefully with me and leave the rest for another time. Afterall, is the number of people who were crucified with Christ really important or is it that Christ was crucified which matters? In TWI we were so busy looking at the little details that we usually missed the point entirely.

I hear ya George. Believe me, I run into some religious people who scare the hell out of me too. :)-->

George, I respect your decision to believe there is no God, though by your protestations, it often seems as if you really wish you could believe in one. I wonder, can you respect my decision to believe there is one? Does it harm you or someone else if I do? I can't prove to you there is a God, and really I have no desire to try. I believe there is, that faith gives me strength, encouragement, comfort, hope . . . You may see that as a crutch, that's ok, my dad sees it that way too. If believing in God makes me a weaker person, so be it, I am weak. Yet through my faith in God, I am made stronger and that alone speaks volumes to me in terms of the proof I need.

It's ok, George, we all feel that way at least some of the time. But here's the thing: when my kids have homework or housework to do, I make sure they have all of the tools they need to get the job done. I will encourage them and support them. I will instruct them and teach them. What I won't do, is do it for them.