Abigail

Yeah, some of them are in the registry. Theres a ton of Adware in the registry Keys There's a Hijacker called AT-Games which is supposed to be in a registry Key and also in my dowloaded program file, but I can't find it there. There's another one called CoolWebSearch which is a highjacker - ad aware keeps finding it but can't get rid of it. This one is also supposed to be in my downloaded programs file, but again I don't see it listed there. There's a couple other hijackers and a trojan horse that I am still searching for. Sheesh what a pain in the behind this has become. I might just have to deal with it until I come up with the cash. I'll know more about that in a week or two when the credit card bills come in. That's the f'd up part. I have the cash, just not sure if I have the credit card space. I may have to wait for the bills to come in, pay them, then buy the programs.

I just finished with the Yahoo one Vert, thanks. It did find some things, though not s much as the Spyware Nuker. What would happen if I took the report from Spyware Nuker and just manually deleted the problem files?

Vert, I ran your program and found several hijackers and a trojan horse that Ad Aware and Spybot both missed. Unfortunately it is going to cost me another $40 to actually fix it. Right now I am working on the $70 for Zone Alert before the 15 day trial runs out. I decided to use their suite package and cancel the McAfee's because its a better deal. If money grew on trees I would have dumped not only 98 but this entire computer quite a while ago. :(-->

Shell, you find the most interesting articles. But I agree, change the channel. I find almost all of the reality TV shows discusting (except the one where they redo people's homes). I just don't watch them.

Yeah, I was using Mozilla for a while. I dumped it when I started getting lots of pop ups on it. I didn't have a problem with pop ups in internet explorer or Mozilla until I was hijacked on New Years. I can't help but think there is still something on this computer I need to get rid of that Ad Aware and Spybot aren't finding.

I've installed a firewall. I'm emptying my cache and running spybot and ad aware daily. Why am I still getting pop ups?

I had red flags from the very beginning. Starting with the secrecy surrounding the setting up of the class. They made it all seem so mysterious. Then there was an incident regarding sexual molestation between two kids, which I already posted on another thread and don't want to go into here. The fact that NO ONE in TWI would help or even visit when I was caring for my dying mother at home. I had more assitance from virtual strangers than I had from TWI. None of them attended the funeral with me either. The first time I ever saw LCM teach, I think I had just finished PFAL. I thought, I love fellowship and I liked the class, but I don't EVER want to hear that man teach again. And I didn't for a long time, because our area was not particularly "tapped into headquarters" at that time. Really, there are just too many to name. I ignored them all. I was young and frightened. My mom was dying. I was trying to turn my life around after several years of drug and alcohol abuse. I desperately needed to believe in something and I soaked up the "love bombing" like a dehydrated man who has spent three days in the desert.

"Coordinators and such move all the time. I assume that most are not on the run, and trust that none are being relocated by TWI to escape responsibility for sexual attrocities" Define coordinators. I left in 2000, so things may have changed some. I was with TWI for 10 years. During that time, the ONLY reason a corps. person moved completely out of an area was because TWI reassigned him/her. My general understanding was that corps. were reassigned periodically (though I never was able to find a pattern to how often an individual was relocated or how long they were allowed to stay in one area) simply to "keep things from getting stale". My experience, however, was very different. In the 10 years I was with TWI, (all 10 years in the same city) the only time someone was assigned to a new location (i.e. sent away from here) was when they were "in trouble" for something. We did have new people move here from time to time, even some corps. But the only ones who left were those in the "dog house".

Evan, I don't think that is what LLP is trying to do. Having read LLP's posts on this subject, it is my understanding he/she knew Mark and liked him. It is a tough blow to process and accept when you find out something this awful about someone you know. If it had been someone I knew and trusted, I would be reeling. It took me a long time just to accept what was said about VPW and I never even knew him. In fact, it took a certain poster here, seeing her anguish as her story slowly and painstakingly unfolded, to finally convince me. Likewise, it took some time for me to accept that LCM had more than a "one time consensual affair". I think LLP is honestly and genuinely trying to put all of this together. It is not an easy thing to do.

LLP, You have my respect and admiration. Your position is not an easy one to be in, particularly if you have a spouse and family who may not be as willing to consider all sides of the story. If ya ever need to "talk", my email is abigail0900@yahoo.com.

the gender issue in this thread is nothing more than an attempt to distract people from the point and sweep it under the rug.

Source of my information: I was not a "first hand" witness to the incident I mentioned earlier. It was not my child and I never examined the child who was hurt. I would never have known anything about what happened, except: a) I walked in on a conversation and overheard enough that the branch coordinator seemed to feel obligated to explain what I heard and b) I was friends with the mother of the child who was hurt. "What arrogance! I cannot logically see why anybody in their RIGHT mind still puts up with it." and "The overseers have proven themselves to be experts in meddling, even in every insignificant little area of the followers lives, and they miss this one." In all honesty, the overseers in this situation genuinely wanted to do what was right. It is my guess, based on what I know of TWI, they sought counsel from THEIR leadership and did as advised. Knowing them the way I did, I do not think they intentionally turned a blind eye to the situation any more than I did. And I did turn a blind eye to it at the time. It's called denial. (In fact, I pushed the entire incident out of my mind until this thread brought it back to memory.) I deserately wanted and needed to believe in what TWI was teaching and the people who were teaching it to me. I was young, frightened, and mixed up, my mother was dying. Denial is a powerful thing and we have all been susceptible to it at one time or another.

"Not unlike daycare, boyscouts, choir/band camps, before/after school tutoring, you name it. It’s a challenge all parents face to balance opportunity against retrospection in the interest of their children" and "I say you and many other have no idea what happens wherever it happens. That’s the big problem with child molestation." These staements are very true. But I still maintain there is a difference. If I am uncomfortable with a teacher, a boyscout leader, etc., I have the option of removing my child from the situation without fear of reproof, retribution, being marked and avoided, etc. The same is not always true in TWI. Should a parent allow such a fear to supercede their need to protect their child? Nope, but it happens. Especially if the parent is afraid of losing God's protection and/or trusts their leadership more than they trust themselves. Do those same fears exist within other religious organizations? I don't know, I've never belonged to any. But I do know they are very real within TWI. "My parents don’t know to this day about these episodes. Fortunately, I wasn’t left with bruises (physical or otherwise) and am all the wiser to what can happen when kids (of any but especially of unequal ages) are left unsupervised." Yup, LLP, me too, and likewise in my case it had nothing to do with TWI. However, I was never left with bruises and I think that is a tremendous difference. Kids who are simply experimenting (which I think is fairly normal) do not generally leave each other bruised and bleeding. Kids who leave another bruised and bleeding are in need of help. Obviously you get something positive out of your experience with TWI or you wouldn't stay. I can't argue against that as I too once felt the same way. I am only concerned that you don't ever allow those positives to blind you to potential harms. Don't ever allow yourself to become comfortable with things that should make you uncomfortable. When something sets off your internal alarm system, pay attention to it.

LLP, "I know that the issue is greater than, and in no way exclusive to TWI. " Agreed. It can occur within any organization, it can happy to anyone's child. There simply are no guarantees. All we can do is our best to prevent it and/or to help our loved ones through it if they have experienced it. I have two sons who I watch over very carefully, but still I am aware that something could happen. I hope we have talked openly and honestly enough that they feel they can talk to me if it ever does. Most of us here are ex-wayfers, and because a number of us were abused, verbally, sexually, emotionally, and/or physically by someone within TWI, it catches our attention when someone from TWI is actually succesfully prosecuted for such an act. We can celebrate together that at least there is one less predator within that particular organization. "it’s just one of those things I just “know.” Does that make any sense?" I'm not exactly sure on what you are saying here. It seems like you are saying God can let you know it is not safe to leave your child with a particular person. I agree, at times it seems to work that way - though my experience was that the leadership in TWI would not necessarily agree that you were getting information from God if the person was another "believer". Here's an incident I remembered this morning while getting ready for work. It happend pretty early on in my TWI days and rang a lot of alarms that for some stupid reason I didn't listen to. Actually, I know the reason, I loved and respected the branch coordinators at the time. Two "believers", both have children. Believer A's three year old daughter comes home from a visit with believer B. She has bruises and some bleeding from her vaginal area. When questioned about it she says believer B's daughter (who was about 8 or 9) was putting things inside of her. Believer A takes the issue up with B and with branch coordinators. Branch coordinators insist such a thing could never have taken place because the daughter of B would have to have been possessed to do such a thing. She could not have been possessed because God would have given them revelation via discerning of spirits if she were. Mom A, a wise woman in my opinion, left TWI. Mom B never sought help for you daughter and a few years later sent her daughter to live with another relative, again on the advice of TWI. p.s. I say this cause I care . . . "No matter how much I value what I get out of TWI, I will not blindly rely solely upon TWI instead of looking to my own personal relationship with God as the ultimate measure of good and evil in every situation." Remember this and hang on to it. When dealing with people, especially those you may someday leave your children with, think back to your first impressions and "gut reactions". Sometimes those are right, sometimes not. Over time and repeated exposure, we become comfortable with things and/or people which in different circumstances we might never have associated with past an initial introduction. Sort of a numbing of the instincts, if you will. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is important to spend some time figuring out what set off those alarms in the first place, to decide if they were justified or not.

That is an absolute riot! If it wouldn't mean instant death to the squirrels (because of the three dogs) I would buy one!

"Twi is no more the haven for sexual predators than any other organization – all the more reason that one should trust God to keep one on guard, no matter what vehicle is the means by which one seeks his or her walk." Do you think the victims in this case weren't trusting God? Personally, I don't know if they were or not, but my guess is they believed they were. Though you can bet TWI would teach otherwise, cause bad things simply do not happen to good wayfers who are trusting God. When you think about all the revelation the leadership of TWI claim to get, don't you wonder why none of them received revalation about this? What about discerning of spirits? To me, that is the difference between TWI and the average. I once witnessed a very ugly reproof session because someone was rearended while sitting at a stop sign. See, it wasn't the fault of the person who hit them, it was the believer's lack of spiritual awareness that caused it to happen. But someone molests children and not a word is said. Makes me go hmmmmm.......

Boy am I learning quick about all this stuff. All of these years running my pc unprotected and never a problem - amazing when I think about it. IN addition to Spybot, AdAware and McAfees, I just downloaded a free 15 day trial of Zone Alert, which is a firewall my sister recommended. Was wondering if anyone out there has had any experiences with it? So far I am very pleased with it.

Questions, questions, questions. . . I understand how you get viruses, via downloads and email. Are there any other ways? How do the hijackers find you? How do trojan horses find you?

Thanks Paw and Nomad. I got it fixed before I saw your last two posts, but the information is good to have anyway. Bluz also recomended the hijack this program so I will download it for future needs and check it out. Spybot was able to get rid of the most offending hijacker (which it appears was preventing the adware program from running properly). I was then able to run adware which got rid of the problems spybot missed. After all of that was done I reinstalled windows and cleaned out all the junk. I sure wish I knew about the safemode thing, as well as running Spybot first, about 16 hours ago! LOL

I am running Spybot now and deleting in small groups as the files come up in case the thing freezes up again. It would appear I have managed to clean out a couple of hijackers but I am having difficulty with two - one is somehow attached to MSN and one to Netscape. Spybot keeps fixing them, but if I search again it finds them again. What makes this even more interesting is that we aren't using netscape or MSN. Oh, its Windows 98SE.

My sitter really screwed my puter up last night. I've been working at fixing it for about 14 hours now. 1. I have at least one if not numerous adware hijackers. I've run adware and found them, but the program keeps freezing up when I try to delete them. I have been able to manually delete one (I think) but the rest are listed as Hkey type things. 2. I had 4 viruses last night. I think I have cleaned them all - at least the PC checker said I have, I am running McAfees now to do a more thorough search. I've reinstalled Windows 3 times now but cannot get my explorer program running. At least the puter doesn't show that it is running.

If we didn't have the right to believe otherwise, we wouldn't have free will. "... He also told us WHAT to believe; we don't have the RIGHT to believe otherwise." That statement simply makes no sense whatsoever.

"My goodness the advertizing, the encouragement from the school district, the encouragement from Social Services: go crazy, beg people for every toy, every shoe, everything that you dont need and that you will destroy the following day. Bahh." We don't get lavish for the adults - gourmet coffees, homemade cookies or other goodies. One year I canned a bunch of Matzo ball soup and mailed some to my brother and dad. 1000Names taught me by example to purchase gifts which show support for one's endeavors. This year my main gifts to him were a CD set on how to play piano by ear and a workout mat. He got me something I would never have bought for myself, but really wanted - gold earrings and a digital camera to push me into the "new millenium". For the kids it is one of my biannual clean out times (the other being birthdays). I go through all of their toys and throw away the broken or incomplete things, donate the toys they've out-grown and make room for the new. This year the boys were both old enough to go through some fliers and put their initials next to the things they wanted. I think we picked one or two items from their "really really want it list" and then picked out a few other things that I thought they would enjoy longer. Most of the time the stuff on their "I want" list consists of toys I know they will be bored with in ten minutes. This year my choices were a couple of small additions to their castle set, a rock polisher for Aaron (who had a bedroom full of rocks just begging to be polished), a gameboy for Jacob (Aaron already has one and I've found them to be a lifesaver on long road trips - also, I bought it used for about 1/2 of what it would have cost new), some board games - things we can enjoy together. Basically I see my Christmas shopping as an endeavor to find activities they can enjoy during the winter season (especially during those times when there is no snow, or it is too muddy or cold to play outside)because come summer they will be too busy swimming, biking, etc. to play with toys. Also, because we have two boys who are so close in age, the issue of fairness can be a huge one. Usually, if I am buying something I know they will both want and it is too expensive to purchase in pairs, then I make it a joint gift. Saves me the financial stress of figuring out how to pay for it all and teaches the boys how to share. :)-->

Mark, I can't remember where, but somewhere in Revelations there is also scripture which back up what you posted. Sunesis, In my researching of Judaism, I found the Nephilim and descendants refers to spirit beings or angels which mated with humans. Those decendents were the giants of the earth.

Def, "Gee I don't know Abi, "thou shalt not eat of it" sounds like a command to me. I guess Moses gave the ten suggestions then?" Well Def, there are many who view the Bible not as a concrete and absolute instruction book on how to live our lives but as a history of man's relationship with God. A relationship which has changed, evolved, grown over time. So, in that sense, there are no commandments. However, there is certainly great wisdom contained therein which we can benefit from, if we choose to. There are certainly things from the Bible we can apply in our lives. Personally, I prefer to "obey a commandment" because I can see the wisdom or love behind it and not simply out of "blind obedience". It is simply not my nature to blindly obey, wasn't as a child, wasn't in TWI, and still isn't now. Vert, "Abigail- I have to respectfully disagree with you on this because adam did name all the animals before his disobedience. So I think they were thinking far above the animals already. Cuz after all "satan" didn't try to deceive the animals...." And perhaps that is exactly what the tree is. The choosing of what one wanted instead of what one was ordered to do. "you may not eat", "but I want to eat". Previously, they followed orders, then they made a choice. The act of choosing something instead of blindly following could be seen as an evolutionary step forward. Satan, likewise, does not have to be literal, but simply the thought processes that occured in the decision making. Roy, " But since there was only good there was no free will until he sin Since the tree was of good and evil and he had good he receive evil knowledge" Exactly. How can one have free will if one is not aware of a choice to be made. And think of all of the things humanity has learned over the centuries. We've certainly made a lot of mistakes, are still making mistakes, will make more mistakes. But we also are learning as individuals and as a species.