Dot Matrix

oenophile I like that as well. Ya know the guy I was in liove with and who I thought of all the time, died last June. As I look at things now, we were madly in love but I do not know if we would have been able to "make a life" together. Ya know? Paying bills, raising kids -- I dunno. I think he would have been a cheater and that would have been worse than loosing him all those years ago.

(thanks DM)

Gosh Ex10- I hope you do not think because I shared my first hand experience of the person I knew, before entering Momentus and after, that it was somehow an attack on you. I would not do that to you. If you had a good experience then you did, nobody’s bad experience will wipe out the goodness of what you experienced. I still am glad I took PFAL and all the BAD that happened after, still does not touch the great things that happened to me, while in that class for the first time. I am glad your experience was sweet. Just seems like people are asking what is was like, and this woman told me and I shared it. That would be second hand, but my very first hand experience was that of a "bad change" in her. She and her husband invited me to a dinner with two x-twi who were now "trainers" in Momentus (people who apparently sit in the back of the class and take notes & stuff.) I told all concerned, sure I would like to get together with them but I was not going to take Momentus, nor did I want to go to a dinner promoting it. We got to dinner and about 10 minutes into it, the dinner became a platform to push me and my spouse into taking the class. We left. Later, when the friend of mine tried to push me into the class for about the 12th time and I told her, "NO," she told me I was sick just like Crxig Mxrtindale. Now, this girl had never been in TWI and all she knew of it was from me, who was her friend. And some SPLINTER people, to whom I had introduced her, while I was checking them out myself. So, were they bashing me because I declined a class they promoted? I dunno. Because my friend never knew, met or heard Crxig teach -- she had no personal experience of him at all. Yet, she was comparing me to Crxig because I was uninterested in another "class". All I knew was, I was just getting over where the first class I took (PFAL) had taken me. This girl, when I asked her what version of the Bible she had, said, "green." She did not even know it was King James. This same girl, began to tell me how lousy of a Christian I was, when she graduated from Momentus, the very next week. I couldn't believe I was the one who introduced her to the avenue that led her to this. I wrote her a note about the "novice Christian" and if she still felt this way about me in five years, to come back and tell me. Otherwise, I was going to blow her off like the freshly born-again person, one might have the misfortune of sitting next to on a long plane ride. Over zealous, critical and annoying. She pushed Momentus at me again. At the end of five years, she did contact me to apologize. She said she was wrong and truly sorry. So, this "training" just seems as though it is not RIGHT for everyone. I called my old California girlfriend to see if she was going to attend, and she told me of a mutual friend who had taken it and ended up in some phsyc ward after, or maybe in the middle of, the class. This is when I again wanted to know the guy's credentials who was running the class, and I was never answered to my satisfaction. But truly, if some people didn't think they had a good experience then there would have been no second class. So, some must have felt benefited. I will not, nor can I, take that away from them. However, with all the good that they saw in the people they were with, cannot make what I SAW happen to my friend any different either. It is what it is.

P.S. Sorry about my typo's I would correct them but the edit button is not there anymore -- oh well! Just wanted to say I was sorry MMMMM the button is here now

My friend took it years ago and tried to convince me to do so. She did tell me about her experience. She said that Dan was the only one at the time who could teah the class and you were NOT to talk about it. SHe said it was like 10 years of therapy in one weekend, since I think I heard more people are allowed to run it. She said they teamed her up with a partner, then told her if she quit, the partner could not continue in Momentus training. So, YOU were responsible for the other person being unable to finish the class. She said although they had Bible verses on the wall and played LOUD good Christian music, little of it had to do with God. She said she was asked to stand and tell something about herself and whe she was finished she was screamed at that she was lying. This was to get to "her truth" about herself so she could find the real her. She was taught that OTHERS people's perceptions of you are WHO you really are. And almost anything you find wrong with another person goes back to your childhood. This way of thinking became very annoying and helped to push us toward the end of our friendship. For instance, we would be driving and someone would cut me off and I would get angry. And she would constantly tell me, "who are you really mad at? Your father?" This became her way with everything. The CLASS was a “weekend” and the girl I knew was gone, and this kind-of robotic know-it-all woman then existed. She judged everyone and thought if she got people to be "honest" she could help them. Even at work, she would flow all her information through her NEW found filter. She lost her job. I got her an interview at my company, to help her out. ON THE INTERVIEW, this woman with a maters degree begins to PUSH the Mometus class to MY BOSS. And then began to critique her, bringing up some things I told her in confidence as MY FRIEND. This nearly cost me my job. When she left my boss called me in and told me what happened and asked why I would suggest the lunatic for a position? I apologized. Then, the Momentus grad friend of mine actually SENT a letter to my boss because she thought she could help her if only she could get her to take the class. It was a f-nightmare for me. Now, the only thing she showed me from Momentus that I thought was GREAT was --- She told me to tell her something about myself, and as I did she began to open drawers and shuffle papers and be overtly distracted. It bothered me! Then, she shared that we all need to be more respectful of people's feelings... That was cool, but TO ME, not worth the REST of the trip. By the way, she was confronted that she was an alcoholic that weekend, something she did not know about herself. She continued to drink. She just became better at hiding the alcohol and began drinking earlier in the morning. She thought it was a GREAT class. My observation of her was that she became a hard-to-be -with pain in the butt. IMO. Bless. I am glad to hear it helped some people.

I was looking for the doctrinal section and it wasn't there I typed in Doctrinal and found it So I am typing this to see if it appears again, I like to read down there Did you all move it? OR am I having computer problems? Okay the page reappeared on my screen. Then, I went to open and back and it was gone again. IT must be me.

Thanks. Ya know, I like many others think that a company WANTS to know the guy logged on to porn sites when he should be working, or the girl who took home the pen and pencil set I just ordered for the boss, or the guy who comes in an hour late and lies about it.... What I have seen however, is that people perceive YOU as the problem. The person who walks in the door with the problem BECOMES the problem. This is something I have KNOWN but being a girl scout at heart, I am always thinking THIS time the higher ups will be greatful I told them. Cases: My husband was always on time, he came back early from lunch, he had great notes for meetings, and save the company money. Fred, the guy in a twin position, came in at least 45 minutes everyday, then talked to everyone at each desk on his way to his. Fred, was a creep. My hubs had a person faxing over great info for the company and Fred HEARD him and ran to the fax and retrieved the info ran into the President and presented it as something HE had faxed in. AND they promoted Fred. My hubs was just the man sho complained about Fred. You are right, the complainer maybe a girl scout -- right as rain-- but will be seen as the annoying one. The complainer. So, that is how I have been seen.... I am pragmatic and honest -- but I have made suggestions (my job had called for ) and found they really only wanted to hear how great THEY were and how I support their plan -- even if I saw it wasn't working. Their thoughts were, "make it work."

Here's the thing, now that he died, the government cannot get the money back for the people who lost it --- Oh, there will be a battle for years to come...

Sweetpea WOW

This topic has really made me look at things, look within, look without, and exam my own history. I was manipulated by my programming in TWI. Here is the thing – for all those VPW is the greatest, TWI did not use any form of mind control RAHH Rahh people. I do not wish to argue. Maybe not “mind control” as described on the Discovery channel when speaking of some popular methods. But they controlled my “behavior” they green housed me in the corps, fertilizing me and directing me to be a certain way – and they manipulated my social environment. (We have all heard of Pavlov’s dog) So, you that garden, say you plant seeds and parent tomato plants how many renegade plants did you have? Any non-conformist? The point is, when I was attracted to someone and they to me, there was definite interference both overtly and covertly. Overtly as a corps coordinator admitted messing things up on purpose and covertly as “Craig” became a standard of a “corps” guy all should want. Like girls it has been said we marry “our fathers” So, they stripped me from the natural attractions that life presented. Then, by the time “one was alright” by their standards, love had very little to so with anything. Maybe we “liked each other” (any two believers can make it in a marriage.” Because there was no deep abiding love, in many “fix-ups” didn’t it make commitment to the cause (TWI) stronger than the commitment to our spouse? Thus, enabling them to walk into our lives and call the shots? If I am deeply in love with you, I am not going to let some corps freak rip you apart. If you were acceptable to me because I finally got “approval” from TWI then whom in effect am I serving? Not God, not my husband, but I am a corporate slave to TWI and their interference is accepted if not sought after. We are TRAINED to seek their approval. Like a kid with a father. Now, this made for many unhealthy marriages. Like Dianna said of Charles and her marriage “It was a bit crowded.” And if Craig was a “role model” then mental illness, bi-polar, abuse, and many things were actually sought after in a mate. If he was a yelling lunatic then he was some kind of a great prophet man-of-God. Our standards (mine and many others not all followers the plan), no longer about LOVE became environmental to their greenhouse. Many of us were pawns in a corporate game. I was married to a VERY nice, very handsome, kind-hearted person and that was not good enough. HE was pastering and sweet. But I was always being yelled at about his weak stand. Hmmmmm, he didn’t yell and scream. I allowed this thinking to seep into my soul and I began to see him differently. Like he wasn’t really a man-of-God (whatever that was) and I allowed that weird-azz standard into my judgments of him, my perception of him. I allowed my now skewed assessment of him to change how I felt. When you are told your husband is a jerk all the time, you can leave or begin to morph. At that time, I morphed. Almost joining in with the bullies to pick on a perfectly decent human being. And eventually, we divorced. My fault. Somewhere in me, I began to look for the “strong” man. But my definition of strength had distorted into some kind of “Craig-like” beast. A screaming, explosive, unyielding bxstxrd -- then I wondered why I was not treated like a princess. Why I waited for explosions and compliments cease to exist. I wondered where the tenderness went. Geez, it was run off by my new format of how I made choices – unhealthy choices. Programmed choices.

I also loved the begining: I know the voice of depression Still calls to you. (I have heard the voice beckon throughout my life and when I think I have beaten it -- it speaks again) I know those habits that can ruin your life Still send their invitations. (Again, things I have left behind sometimes present themselves again. And although I have walked away from the table I do recall when I did whatever bad thing it was and for a brief moment recall the pleasure of whatever sin presents itself.) But you are with the Friend now And look so much stronger. (I kinda get lost here) Then it goes into the coin thing and I do relate to that. I have been purchased with couterfiet coins -- like TWI.

I did love the coin thing as you said "yes, yet aptly expressive of what it feels like to allow yourself to sell your true self for counterfeit coins" But then, I dunno. I was feelin' it but then somehow I lost it.

"HOUSE" Anyone else watch this? At first, I thought I hate this caustic man! But now, I can't wait to watch him figure things out. "Out of Practice" seemed to really have something. A second season probably would have fine tuned the humor. But CBS sent it packing. Anyone else like it. "24" - I NEVER miss it. Like going to the movies each Monday. I wonder if it will be mostly a China set this fall and get out of the CTU background. They killed off Tony, Michelle, Edgar and the President! Thank God Chloe is still around -- boy nobody is safe in that cast. "Joey" --- shame, it really sucked "4400" Anyone else as wrapped up in the 4400 as I am? My God I cannot believe they killed Lilly off. I read the actresses "people" fought with the series "people" and she will NOT be returning. If Mia really is gone I will be bummed. I guess I should have put this in the movie section -- feel free to move it guys.

RR Good to hear you had some GUTS! And common sense. Glad to hear you married them anyway! Good story, and it still shows their attempts to manipulate who got together with whom.

I posted and while I edited my post vanished. So, I post again. If it reappears I will erase this. Apology. There was a really nice guy who was NOT corps who asked me to marry him. HE said he would become corps spouse and we could go back in a year.... I had leadership talk me out of that. I had a corps guy ask me to marry him and I was thinking about it, the next thing I heard was he was getting married -- found out later that it was a VP fix up. Turned out to be a successful one but GEEZ I was thinking maybe we would date for a while and see how things went... Oh well, some corps were just in a hurry to marry. Actually, we were told it was much harder to find a "corps guy" once you graduated and were on assignment, so that added to the race to wed. Like grab anyone they approve of and get it over with…. Then, there was the "any two believers can make it in a marriage" teaching -- like we were two prize dogs being placed together and breed. So, I think the whole dating- marriage-manipulation stuff may have been prevalent (IMO). It was as if we were their pets being moved around at their whim. Let’s put that nice blonde guy in Ohio near that brunette in Jersey and direct them to get together. A science project for some, and a legitimate act of trying to help two people find a mate by another I guess. But when people were already TOGETHER who were they to dictate, mandate, or suggest it was wrong??? TO my understanding Craig was directed to his wife…. That went well… Tongue in cheek.

Thanks Sunesis. Catcup, I know what you mean about the Veepee My sister went to tell the Doc about her marriage and he listened, took her side. Then, when we left, I thought great he sees the truth and took her side! Well, I forget who was there maybe the Gearhead or someother person there to cater to the Veepee and he said, "Don't you know how he works? HE will be on your sister's side and tell her how awful her husband is then, if her husband walks in he will tell him how awful she is and take his side." Whatever.... WG- OH MY GOD!

Thanks!

Well…. I can give you many personal stories as well as friends of mine. Hmmmm, which ones to share…. Okay, there was a woman who was some coordinator of an area. Her roommate was a woman with whom she had gone WOW. Well, this little x-WOW fell in love with a young man to whom she had witnessed. She was told by her corps leader that if she married him she would loose her blessing from God and that her children would all be retarded. (Time change, term updated to mentally challenged). Well, they married and had three wonderful kids whom are all healthy. I was “seeing” a corps guy and we really hit it off. I really never saw myself as married to him as he was a Jeff Foxworthy type, and I prefer the Tommy Lee type. However, he asked me to his corps graduation and to meet his parents. Right after that, I was sent to another campus and he was fixed up with a different more amenable woman via one of the corps coordinators. I often thought things were afoot but did not REALLY know. Until that corps coordinator left TWI and apologized about the demise of the relationship. It would have fallen apart anyway as he was not anyone I considered as permanent. But who the heck was anyone to "step in"? Was there interference? I think so… Another young man and I hung out with great regularity. And a “woman” chosen by the higher ups told my dear friend that she had been directed to romantically go after “the guy I was with regularly.” They did not wind up together. He is with a wonderful gal and it all worked out well. (And I hope the other girl’s life turned out well.) Now, unlike Catcup’s story I was FOND of the guy but never in love. But it was still hurtful, unkind and manipulative. Catcup that is so sad! The only thing I know is after I rejected the advances of VPW I seemed to be targeted as “questionable”. Then, I dated a great looking guy with thick black hair and dark seductive eyes. HE was like a Serpico in that he was SOOO honest and a really GOOD man and had taken on some marginal union activity. He was kind. His Dad had died and he moved back in with his mother to help her financially – just good stuff. Now, I was crazy about him, and I was told by the limb leader I was not to see him or have contact with him again. I went to see him a year after I was engaged to another and got to tell you there was still steam there, even though we met in a very public place. I walked away and thought I was making a huge mistake. .... them all! Catcup your story rips my soul. I am so sorry. I am sorry for all of you.

I don't see why if you work through this horrific pain of loss and unheaval why that couldn't balance out some of the chemicals that play into our ups and downs. I know a man who had a bad thing happen which triggered his, and I know of people who just "grew out of it" I am blown away by your account here. I feel the shock through your writings. It was probably the best call you ever made was to call the other driver. It may have been good for him as well. betcha.

Loosing my mind trying to recall. Ya know when you get an email claiming someone wrote or said something you can go there and check it out. Been there many times but having a brain malfunction. Thank you

YES!!! Happy Happy Birthday!

Geez, That's it, just change the location -- no suggestions? You usually have verses don't you? Or it could go in political as I don't think the government should pay for this guys FAMILY. But here it is, the guy is coming in tomorrow and I wanted to be able to talk back to him. What made the catholics stop just going for it and using birth control. Are there any verses? Anything governmentally that one cannot just haphazardly bring kids into the world and expect the US government to help pay for it? HE just gets to do this and we get to pay for it?

This should not be in "The Way" for any cops wondering.... :) But does anyone have a biblical answer for someone who thinks God does not want them to use birth control? This man came in to work Friday. He was 30 years old and has eight children and one on the way. He has a brokendown van and is unemployed. He said God does not want him to use birth control. I asked what religion he was and he said he goes to a Latino Pentecostal church. He said he was not to worry about having children as God would clothe the Lillies and feed the birds and tells us not to concern ourselves with these things. He said his brother has 11 children and is also unemployed. I said how are you making it? It seems GOD is helping him through the wonderful programs here in the United States that help him pay his hospital bills and buy food. I just think he is so irresponsible that it sickens me. Perhaps, he is just of this school of thought due to bad teaching so I would like to respond biblically. Anyone have any Bible verses about having children resposibly or birth control?

Pond You are saying that Friscoguy's whole first post here is just a section out of the SOWER where someone else wrote it? If so, then Friscoguy did you post it here because you are the author of it? Or is it how you feel? Cause, otherwise I agree with pond, its a bit strange. Please elaborate. I like the post, but is it someone elses heart? Thank you

Did you ever really love me? Or was I an obligation which ended at 18? Why did you marry THAT woman after Mom died? Why does everything I do for you end up with you screaming at me? Did I do something to you to make you so angry all the time? Why do you hate me? Do you hate me? Are you sorry I was ever born?