Dot Matrix

We all know how sincere these chaps can be -- Actions speak louder than words... Here is an example: Jimmy Swaggart http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion...jimmy-swaggart/ "All the signs were there. Swaggart had written an article in 1987 asserting that "pornography is now considered as addictive as drugs." And over the years he had campaigned for tougher anti-porn legislation. The AOG had no choice but to reprimand him somehow. So they defrocked him for one year. The next week, Swaggart wound up crying his foot off on TV. In front of cameras and congregation, Jimmy seemed contrite: "I have sinned against you, my Lord, and I would ask that your precious blood would wash and cleanse every stain until it is in the seas of God's forgetfulness, never to be remembered against me." But he made no specific mention of the nature of his transgressions, referring only to some vague "moral failure." Maybe he was following the advice of his attorney. " So, a in THIS CASE of STIFI a man listens to the witch of Endor. Sells out his wife... Hurts people in a ministry ... Then tells people in a letter he is weeping. Well GS is not a forum to fix CES. But it does seem like CES folks are venting HERE. In this community FEW are a part of CES -- so do not expect people to dance a jig at a letter... Perhaps all of you should remain VERY CAUSIOUS. Be careful As far as calling him or whatever, we did not go looking to be in the middle of your mess. It ended up here dumped in this living room. I stopped talking to you years ago when you first presented yourself as an azz. I do not really care about your ministry -- the growth of it, the death of it, the exposure of it. I care about MORE people being hurt. And as this information was PLACED HERE, and I read it, it clearly shows you guys are messed up. And people have been hurt the biggest victim of all may very well have been your wife. I might call her.

He said "Prophecy is prophecy, and to criticize “personal prophecy” as unbiblical, in and of itself, is contrary to Scripture. We have a book on Prophecy that deals with this subject in depth from the Word, which you can get from www.stfonline.org." BS. To criticize personal prophesy is unbiblical and if I want to know why -- buy a book. F -off

Agree

Forget it

Duc and Abagail Very well said. There were people who spoke up. I for one did. (Not in a big confrontational way as I was not really interested in his ministry anyway.) When HE told me about the personal prophesy and how he was writing it down, I told him it sounded like automatic handwriting and unbiblical. Then, he spoke of a prophesy regarding a woman. He was convinced she was the one for him due to one of these prophesy's. (Do not recall her name) I explained to him how many women in the corps thought God told them a certain man was going to be their husband. I told him of a friend Cynd! who told me God showed her she was to marry this corps guy, she knew that she knew. Well, he never had any interest and instead married a different friend of mine. This happened a few toimesz with various women. I told him I don't see why God would write him a "note," via his own hand, and let him know this woman was the one he was going to marry, even though he was already interested in her. Wouldn't he allow the whole courtship thing happen naturally? and the obvious "Don't you think the desires of your own heart come through in the prophesy?" Of course I was dissmissed. Checking out his "felowship" was my last thing I ever did which had any real past afiliation with TWI. (Except for Waydale and GSC) Frankly, it grossed me out, caused me to be cautious and did not seem "right". That whole "Dan" stuff caused me pause the minute I hear of it. And when my friend went and returned, it sounded completely Biblically unfounded. Another man with a class and at the time the only one who was able to run the class.... I mean, once fooled shame on you, twice fooled shame on me.... Yeah, so let the jerks who screwed things up be responsible for fixing it.... Fox watching the hen house...

Here is more info http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/LegalCente...3362&page=1

Never mind

A tiny little pug? People make me sick

Is CK Mike?

In total agreement

Alfacat you said in response to Mstar the following: "Mstar-- how many times I have asked myself, why couldn't these guys(all our former twit leader types) take some time to really de-compress from the vey experience???....NO, NO they HAD to jump right in, be the pooh-baa cuz No-One possibly could have made it without some ex-way leader to guide them... Reminds me of blind leaders of the blind..... " I actually said something along these lines to Jal. but no, he couldn't see it. Right after he left TWI... When I organized bringing RD out to tell the truth to our area with a wonderful believer, she and I were exposing the truth and the dark secrets. We were praying with people and giving love. She and I were offering God's love to the smitten and lost. And even though WE brought JAL out, he said, "Well we nned to get a hold of P@t P0we!! as he is the LEADER in the AREA. I said the leader appointed by TWI. He was not appointed by God. But JAL would not see past "appointed leadership", he could not connect with God's real troops. He was actually dipped in sh!t and enjoyed the smell, and sought out people who had the same stench. IMHO. Even his X and I discussed JAL pulling out of "This" and allowing God to work in his life before he jumped right in -- I mentioned that is what Paul did taking around 14 years off to get it straight. But JAL was a locomotive with the track already laid by TWI, IMO. Well, the track is old and worn and the locomotive has no more track left. IMO If he wants to remain a Moggie, he may have to go to God now for guidance. Not some loonies dreams, not some half baked doctrine sanctioned by the perverted old Doc. But GOD. Go be alone with God for awhile... It has been the prevailing advice I have heard offered to him by the rank and file for years.

Abagail A huge AMEN! Thanks for posting it Sushi

LG I recall times when Exxie was being slammed when she tried to put into words what happened to her via VPW. There were many who tried to crush her when she was already down, but you came riding to her rescue with logic and profound reason. I remember hunting for one of your statements as it was so freeing I just had to repost it in another thread. When the tables were being tipped and aimed at a victim you would show up and with your words hold the fort down. I have always been thankful for your words.

Abagail: well stated: "CES will never be a godly organization because faulty premises are promulgated and because it is driven by ego, not love or godliness. They are the same faulty premises of TWI. And no wonder, look where they learned them."

Agreed and isn't "Dan" one of the ones to fix things -- the Momentus guru? Sorry folks, this all gagged me years ago and I walked away from them. Now it just makes me sad. Again -- people looking to a man with a class.... or maybe he is classless now....

Praying with you

Groucho - Great post - that is telling it like it is! I love this: "Prophetic council?...head prophetess?...dream interpretations? They are all "biblical" sounding terms but this organization is FAR from being of God. They are self indulgent, egotistical, wannabes who have trashed the lives of many people in order to bolster their own "spirituality"...but to whom? " IMO: Here is the thing about all this dream sh!t. The thing I love about God is he really clarifies that he is IN CHARGE. Man is always seeking formulas to bypass God. That way we do not have to include him in anything – and we can be as gods – such as this the vending machine analogy of the law of believing. If I have all things line up and believe then God is required to do ____________ fill in the blank. But when you look at scripture it is always different. Because Elisha lays on top of some kid doesn’t mean that is the way to be healed. It was the way GOD choose to heal the kid via Elisha THIS TIME. Or the message to wash in the Jordan – gee that is completely different than lying on top of the kid. Or when Jesus helped the guy with a son whom had seizures – in this particular case, it was a devil spirit that was cast out. All different! With Karen Ann’s dream interpretations, first of all, the importance of all dreams seems to be over-blown in another HUNT FOR A FORMULA. Perhaps God will give you a dream in the month of May this year, but then choose a different form of communication with you next month, or tomorrow, or in 5 minutes. The deal is GOD is the one who chooses how to talk to us and what to say. Or we place too much importance on insignificant dreams that are not godly. What a devilish trick! Perhaps, the dream about Elizabeth’s having maggots in her hair means that people are throwing garbage at her all the time. It is stinky old garbage that is filled with maggots. And all though all can see the maggots being place on her nobody is helping her. Instead, they are just breeding more maggots but throwing more garbage. OR maybe it is just their own evil thinking that has dripped into their own hearts and is flooding their dreams. Dreams resolve conflict and give us resolution to our days sometimes. I saw a movie with Judge Reinhold. Later, he was incorporated in a dream… it didn’t mean much. Yet, when my feral cat was found dead, I did have a dream about him being dead and saw where he was. I blew it off as negative believing at first. But then it did prove to be true – after he did not come to greet me a few days in a row. God is in charge of the show. Scriptures I referenced: The revelation for healing in 2 Kings 4 with Elisha was: Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes. He stretched himself upon him – he laid on top of the kid. So, someone looking for formulas can begin to lay on top of all people they pray for….. 2 Kings 5 : 10 Elisha gives a message to wash in the Jordan…. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean In Mark 9 we have a demon being driven out by Jesus: 14When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15"Lord, have mercy on my son," he said. "He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him." 17"O unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me." 18Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment. 19Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, "Why couldn't we drive it out?" 20He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

I just read Elizabeth's letters That poor woman. And some people have hope that JAL will fix things? Seems to me he ran out on a very nice woman when she was under attack by the witch of Endor. He backed the wrong woman from what I saw. Poor Elizabeth....

10/10 I want a gold star

Lorna Dune and Sunesis Back a couple of pages I agree, I think it is crap and appauling, that doesn't make us judgemental but good fruit inspectors

I think this is a good summation. Some may think differently and I guess they can, but this is the way I see it. I have to agree with the Cman on this. IMO

Good Job! The girl I work with and I do stuff like that all the time. And yes people think you are nuts. Our mailman has Animal Control on his speed dial and reports people on his route all the time. Dogs tied to a tree on a 100 degree day with no water, dogs pushed into small cages in the beating sun etc. BRAVO for you!

I am not afraid of death but I am of pain. I do not want you to hurt. I do not want to hurt. I think that is why thinking of death scares me. You are sooo young.

George I too have enjoyed your posts. I have loved your honesty and reason. I read Too Gray Now's post and I hope you give it a shot. I worked at a health food store and we were often asked about cancer. The one book and treatment (the doctor for whom I worked) suggested was CANCER by Dr. Rath http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/NHC/can...r_solutions.htm http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/ The pharmacutical companies hate him ... that just helps me to read This was also suggested http://www.essiacinfo.org/ If you decide to just forgo all of it, I want to hug you. I want to put your head on my lap and sing you sweet songs of joy. I want to tell you how thankful I am for your life and I want to evetually say good-bye. Your post held wisdom of your own life and an understanding of how the pieces all came together. You have a daughter who will carry you forward into her children and your grandchildren. You have built much. I love you. I wish I had a magic wand. Please continue to share as you offer much with your personality and straight up truth. Forever hugs Words seem weak to offer. Peace in all your decisions I will be praying

Oh my God!!! This was another great post. I cannot see how anyone would have hope that JAL will fix all of this... He led them to Momentus and personal prophesy and allowed some dream weavers "interpetations" to be snorted out about his wife. I also love some people involved in CES and will be praying for all of them. But geez - you want someone to straighten things out? It will not be a "name" for those people seem to have veered left and think they are still traveling down the middle. I would look for a Mark Sanguinetti or a Raf to pop up with biblical reasoning and sound direction. (Not that they are not famous to us, however most of us know them as grounded not X-TWI stars.)