Dot Matrix

GREAT JOB IN HELPING THE BABY! Construction sites are notorious dumping grounds for cats and dogs. When you say wrinkle dog are you meaning a sharpei? http://www.pedigree.com.sg/breeds/images/shar_pei.jpg OR maybe a hound dog -- they are plentiful here and abandoned frequently Anyway how nice of you to care!!!!! Yipee!!!!! I hope he gets a nice home. His running would indicate fear -- probably kicked or hit by people he went to for help. So sad. Here is a little something FYI - When we found Simba (a chow owned by a client that is now in Arizona) he had been missing for oct 15 thru Dec 21. HE was A GREAT dog -- a show dog and very bright. Animal control called the clinic and I went to get him (off the clock) and called the owners in AZ. He was starving so I kept feeding him --- It can make their stomachs flip. With a starving dog or human you need to start slow and work up as if they had been fasting. Simba had to have x-rays. You could see all the undigested food I gave him... (I didn't know) They had to give him oil to get it to move. But in your case with a lost abandoned dog I would have done the same thing and hoped he ate until full then stopped -- cause what else can you do? GREAT Job in helping the baby!!!!

Elizabeth Now that I see it, I love Satori’s letter and perspective all though different than mine, I think it gives a broader view of what people get from your letters Elizabeth. So, after I cry for you I think I would like to echo a bit of Satori’s enthusiasm for you. I can almost hear John Phillip Suza playing in the background and his words do make me want to rally behind you as a conqueror. Even though I understand how victimized you were. I think what he has written has a very healthy stirring tone to understanding an added depth to your communications. IMO, his letter gives a great balance. Like the before and after picture in the gym commercials So, in your virtual eye if you see a parade in your honor I would like to twirl the baton. Thanks Satori hugs to all...

LMAO

I checked with an atty. She said to get the PM's some here got from that new poster -- was just like getting unsolicited mail. You can do what you want with it even if it says confidential... You can legally post it on a public forum

I am sorry to have to address this on your thread Elizabeth but I am so insulted I feel that I must. Satori I find your post completely out of sorts. If you read her letter you would find it filled with verbal struggles and tears. To have me validate her pain can be part of a healing process. "Loving thoughts to ease your trouble" Well, that was in my heart for her... Seems what is in your heart for her is to criticize what I offered -- I suppose in your mind that is much more in compliance with the topic. (Not) Which I find sorely lacking in offering anything. You are groping like the rest of us to find words to say -- but in seeking your own words all you find is "I dunno" Then, to suggest the following, "This is not criticism of Dot, but a suggestion to one and all - if you find Elizabeth's story similar in any respect to a crucifixion and resurrection, focus on the resurrection, and not just for her benefit, but for yours. The inner strength she has found within herself can point the way to your own. " Then you add "Maybe she would want to get past her own story and on to... I dunno... helping others still trapped in the Graesers' CES/STFI psychodrama. I'm guessing she's a woman with extraordinary gifts, and would not waste precious time re-living an unfortunate chapter of her past when so many others need healing from their own." Maybe she does want to get past her own story but you are not offering that. Let me reply to you in kind, this is not a criticism of you Satori, but just something I noticed. Perhaps, if you were to merely OFFER what you think she needs such as: My wishes to you are different: You seem to be a strong woman and have much to offer. I believe God will use your gifts" As opposed to trying to tell me, my heartfelt words do not apply, and preface your post with your disagreement with me. And anyone who felt similarly are also some how promoting a” pity party." First, it detracts from what I offered; next it focuses on you to have the magic words. Perhaps, you should just let people speak their hearts and you should speak yours. If you want to focus on the "resurrection" then kindly do so. Your focus is on my words being somehow incomplete or somehow not in compliance with wishing her well as I did recap what I got from her letters. I wanted her to know she was heard. And if my hearing her, and the way I choose to love her, offends you, perhaps you should offer what is in your own HEART and leave what is in my heart alone. If you see it as a pity party then so-be-it, I felt and said it as an understanding of what she has been through. You, on the other hand, used her thread to platform a criticism of me. It is like all the idiots out there who say "Don't feel that way..." They do not recognize what people feel, but rather want to travel passed it, without acknowledgement and tell her "I hope all is well." I don't believe all can be well until she is acknowledged for all she has been through. My letter is to her, not to you. Write your own heart felt words. Satori - Feel free to write to her about the resurrection of her life, as you see it, but shame on you for the way you tried to lay it out here. To take it from a page in your book, this is not a criticism but to (him and) one and all - if you wish to tone your personal letter to Elizabeth differently than I have, then just do it. The need for a negative comparison seems a distraction and an exercise in your own inability. Perhaps Satori, you see a need for a different tone, I am not denying your feelings or opportunity to offer that here. But the way you presented it just seemed to be offensive to me and anyone who felt similarily. In reviewing your post, let me reply in kind, this is in no way a criticism of Satori -- I did not find Elizabeth's story similar to a crucifixion and resurrection but rather a sweet helpless one caught in a bear trap in the winter woods. Who some how found the strength to gnaw off her own foot to escape a worse fate. I recognize the enormous loss and the pain that went into that decision. I also feel with time she will feel far better having escaped with some terrible wounds then having stayed. Again borrowing a page from your book...Seeing things that way may also benefit you (us) if you can see what you have lost is so much less than that which you have gained. The inner strength she has found within herself can mesh, with the courage you had to find, to leave the winter woods yourself. As opposed to trying to diminish the tenderness and understanding others maybe posting. Feeling what comes to the surface of the souls posting to Elizabeth, may take us further as a group in healing, and understanding the traps the world has out there to snuff out the light of hope we (the human race) try to fan and keep glowing. (Satori's comparison may apply to many who have read the letters, I am not telling him or you what to feel -- only declaring you HAVE the right to FEEL what you feel and my feelings differ from his -- I give him that, even though I feel he did not offer me the same courtesy) Sorry to derail - but being as he really brought me into the heart of his post I felt it necessary. In an effort to keep this about Elizabeth, if anyone else wants to tell me my letter was not what the Doctor ordered, feel free to PM me. Elizabeth - My heart does bleed for you, this is not about my pain as was so callously suggested. Many of us have PAIN from TWI and CES. Just because there is mutual pain and I recognize yours -- does not decline my love and understanding of your pain.

I just cannot find the reply button in my private messages

To make something clear as I got a PM- I did not personally hear from John - I am responding to his letter that was sent. Not personal correspondence -- but to his general corespondence. As we all are, I guess it read as if I heard from him. Nadda. Sorry, if it looked like that

Elizabeth: I do not know you, but I have read about you... I read your letters and the agony you must have been put through is palatable. To think a man, a spouse would take the words of a delusional person over his own wife is appalling. You must have felt so alone and battling every jot and tittle of your life. No one should live under that much scrutiny. It is not living, it is surviving, and that would be marginal. I cannot tell you how desperate I felt with you, as I read your logical heart-felt words trying to persuade your husband, to see with his heart, that a broad brush of deception was coloring him. I cannot imagine the lonely nights lying next to a man who was judging you and treating you as if you were possessed or minimally as a traitor to God. How empty those nights must have been for you -- and even though they were too silent I bet they were less toxic then what the day would bring. I am sure you were not perfect as none of us are, but I ask that you do not pull yourself apart over this and let the taste of the poison linger. You can make yourself crazy with reruns and if only's. From what I read, you did the best you could as you watched your husband slip into quick sand convinced it was "solid ground." It is pitiful what you endured. I am so sorry for each break in your heart. Know God loves you and is not judgmental. He never showed anyone spiders coming from your nose, but someone's own evil thinking permeated their dreams. I hope by now you know the insanity, that crept into their lives, is not by anything you did and you should feel saved from an abyss of horror. God is rich with love, my dear, and he will show you his heart. He can and will heal you. He loves you. He loves them as well and someday if and when they humbly seek the path back he will be waiting for them. But I truly feel there will have to be an epiphany in time to wake these people up. Consider yourself blessed to have escaped. My heart swells with tenderness toward you.

John thanks for the correspondence Here is a video for you: Posted elsewhere, put here as my reponse to your letter.

Really good idea! I will post the link up for John to see it.

Maybe you should print the letters out and send them. They were not written by Greasers but by CES leaders. Let them see what their leaders say..... Back in the day I sent Sheonheits' letter to everyone...

Um, I got "incredible satan" Then, I left my middle name out and got "Hercules Striker" I hate them both

She will go away... We can only hope and pray I also AGREE with Word Wolf but do not know how to do TWO quotes from two different people, Paw does use a LIGHT hand and if you were restricted you deserved it. Anyone know how to let Elizabeth Lynn know that many of us care about her?

Dog lover: I had a girl in the --th corps -- who got into some VERY strange behavior -- told her WOW sister if she married this guy (also a wonderful believer) that they would have retarded children. They married anyway. Had three wonderful kids. Found out years later the woman in the -- corps was a lesbian who had been in love with her.... So, you think her personal life and desires were apart of her prophesy? Kinda like your story!

Whomever: I love what you have done with the place! The new years decorations are really cool!!!! Thank you!

PS. I used to send stuff to the soldiers a couple years ago. I printed out the address to a girl at work and it had my email address on it. She began to email me. I didn't really like her but to be polite I would email jokes etc. Well, she would rag about the boss. And I replied. Kind of benine listening. That B-ch ADDED to my email things I had not said, printed the email out and passed it around the place. NOW THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. She wanted to crab about the boss and used ME to get the job done. Another time, I left a message on the phone of my lawyer boss. I told him it was confidential and I needed to speak with him about so and so. He sent the message to so and so's phone. Got to be smarter than that...

Amen ... the gloves are off... I think PM's are pm's. But if a new weirdo shows up and starts to go off on me -- I am not obligated to keep your insanity a secret. (Even an old weirdo for that matter, but if I have opened dialougue with them in the past, I would first approach them.) When I first got here a Rev Splinter emailed me when my email address was public. I did not reveal his name but I did reveal his message. He was cruel, accusatory, caustic about Greasespot etc. I did email him back and asked him to never contact me again. But his email was so disturbing to me I did post it. Really, what kind of an idiot comes to a place NEW and begins to private message people "nasy notes'? First, if you want to share a secret - you should know the person. Or you should ask, may I speak to you in confidence? But to be a NEW poster and start to send private nasty grams is Bull crap and very very stupid on the behalf of the sender. And why would you think people were jerks and send them a PM and expect them to keep it a secret? (Gee, Mary is a moron and I cannot stand her beliefs, I will send this moron a note and be acromonious, and then TRUST her to keep it a secret.... ahhhh duh!) Yes, some can say I would never ever post a PM and perhaps you never would. But for whatever reason that NEW poster so disturbed our regular poster that she did post it. I'm with her. And legally you can forward a PM or an email. Or even a phone message you leave on a phone. IF you have EVER worked corporately you know that. All of the above have been done to me in that environment. And it did not feel good, and it did anger me until I realized what an idiot I was for thinking it wouldn't happen. Edited for spelling error

Good posts all It was really good IMO. Somethings do not exactly pertain to our cult but in general there is a lot to be said for this....

:)

Oh my God!

Didn't know that about Luther. The thing I find as a running theme is that for Centuries we (humans) have been tricked/hooked/fell in the trap from similar things such as Ego: My minister here in Georgia told me a great story. He said it is easy to help people and for them to build you up so much in their gratitude that one can get a swollen head. He said what keeps him grounded is what an old minister told him.... He told him, ya know Jesus came to town riding a donkey never in a royal vehicle of pomp and glory. So, when your head gets too big for your shoulders just remember you are just another AZZ that carried Jesus in to town. Seems people have trouble dividing what God laid on their heart from their own thoughts. It becomes harmful when you are delaring things FOR God and still do not know the difference. Following men: Following men without question. When they want you to follow in blind obedience without the logic of the Bible, it is time to rethink your position. And of course other things.... they are just wash, rinse and repeat.

EX Laughing.....

This whole CES thing has me looking at stumbling blocks -- so we (some of us) can be smarter - Looking at some of these "hooks" They just seem very similar -- like alter them slightly and we have TWI or CES or the like. It is kind of a shame... Look at Martin Luther's era: Look at this about Martin Luther: … At the period of the Reformation, the corruption of the clergy, and the shameful abuses by which they had debased the holy and beneficent religion of Jesus had been carried to the utmost extreme. The seductive artifices… & schemes of the court of Rome, for the purpose of establishing her supremacy… even over heaven; these were matters too palpable and outrageous not to excite attention or to be any longer endured. The terrible and corrupting principle, that the people ought to be kept in a state of blindness, was every where reduced to practice. The holiness and infallibility of the pope (fill in the blank – Dan, Craig, VPW, JAL KAG) were preached as indispensable articles of creed, in order to avoid the loss of eternal happiness…. AND: ….. It was only the house of Austria which at this eventful period remained the faithful adherent to the pope, and the subservient pimp of superstition. Indescribable was the misery which that house brought upon all Germany, and millions of Germans did she murder to stop the progress of truth; to protect blessed ignorance and stupidity; to exercise the most shameful and oppressive tyranny, and to favour the priesthood and its vile deceptions. http://www.nathan.co.za/luther.pdf Or how about this stuff: Salem Witch hunts: Seemed like some stuff WAS happening that should be looked at, but these people put the microscope on the innocent – wonder if they saw spiders exiting a nose? …The relatives of the afflicted girls tried different alternatives to obtain answers. Mary Sibley, the aunt of one of the afflicted girls, called on Tituba with a plan to allegedly use magic to unmask the witches. Although Mary Sibley had resorted to witchcraft to seek out the witches, she was not accused of any crime. As the craze went on, it became obvious that the authorities were selective. They dismissed some charges as absurd. They seemed to pursue most strongly people with little power or people against whom Parris or the Putnams already had a gripe…. http://tn.essortment.com/salemwitchhunt_rkto.htm David Koresh’s prophesies: Interesting as JAL mentioned that KAG had some valid prophesies for him and others. And maybe she did. But in this article some of David Koresh's prophesies seemed to be correct. Hmmm who was feeding him the words and visons? … CV: Is there anything else Clive did or said to lead you to believe he is trying to suppress news of David Koresh's prophecies?… http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/Wac...age/b_kce4.html Sound a bit like TWI? CES and the whole prophesy faux pas? Same sh!t different day errr Century…. People getting carried away with their own importance. Taking ANYTHING they think as a message from God – be it a gripe or not-- Any others come to mind? I like the Martin Luther example because he was just a guy maybe like Raf, WW, Mark S. or you and me... And he had a heck of a battle but he really changed things. (I am not encouraging anyone to hang in there (TWI, CES or anything) but he really changed things

LMAO with a big AMEN!