Dot Matrix

Krys agreed Ex laughing and agree I gag at gross things all the time. Do not speak to me off boogies, do not forget to wash your hands from the bathroom, do not go a day without deodorant. Now, to be sliding around over strangers - or neighbors in a swap or an orgy? Heck, I do not like to get renegade mustard on me from a loaded hot dog... I surely do not want other "things" dripping all over me..... Barf If I get that exploratory, I will find some good batteries

OMG That is the kind of stuff that makes me crazy. The big things bother me but I understand some idiot lies to get ahead, look better maybe... (But do not condone it) But the little things -- when they cannot tell the truth about the little things are they broken and cannot be fixed? WTF

Insanity

Do you wonder whether -- If you continue to lie it activates the white matter of the brain over the gray OR Because they are wired to use the white over the gray they lie. Chicken or the egg? I had one girl that simply could not or would not tell the truth. If she drank a 7 up with a ham sandwich for lunch she'd say, "I had a pie and root beer for lunch" There was no benefit to the exchange of the lie for the truth. It was shocking to me.

neat article "“When people make moral decisions, they are relying on the prefrontal cortex. When people ask normal people to make moral decisions, we see activation in the front of the brain,” he explained. “If these liars have a 14 percent reduction in gray matter, that means that they are less likely to care about moral issues or are less likely to be able to process moral issues. Having more gray matter would keep a check on these activities.” But it seems they have a choice to lie as it says they are manipulative...

So, all the effort that could go into just being a regular person goes into lying.... Why?

Pathological Liars Is it a disease? Do they know they are lying and do it anyway? Are their minds so bent their lies are their truth? I am not sure what goes off in the brain but I have met a few of them in my life and have been deceived by them until a light bulb went off. The illusions I believed: 1. A girl at work was always telling me stuff. She had a high school boyfriend she was madly in love with, but her boyfriend was a black lawyer and his family thought of her as poor white trash. She was fixing up her basement. The judge we worked for had hit on her. My hubs hit on her. She would always tell me, “When you got it flaunt it.” I thought, I wonder why all these guys are hitting on this very large and lumpy woman. 2. A girl from TWIG was pregnant. Her father raped her and it was his child. Her parents beat her all the time and she showed me her scars. She was removed from the home and lived with a Mennonite woman who was her foster mother. I felt so bad for her. 3. A woman who told me she was a civic leader, pillar of the community whose whole life was about helping others. She would tell me about this great place she ordered food from.... I was impressed by her verbal resume. What a gal! 4. I took a class where a guy heard from God, saw a snow storm and had giant D and L’s when he read the Bible. He had neato programs to help the youth move the word of God. He taught the youth to keep it in their “pants” and focus on God armed with green cards and beta tapes. Well, we all know… The Truth: 1. Her boyfriend was not a lawyer. He was black and she had been stalking him for years because she liked black men and he was not interested. I found out she did not have a basement. The judge we worked for had no interest in her fat self at all and was trying to get her out of his area. My hubs HATES fat women, there is no way he went after a woman wearing a size 16. He complained when I went to a size 6. This poor woman got fired when we all figured out she was lying about everything. 2. The girl from twig wore a coat and never removed it. We discovered she had tied a pillow around her waste. Her parents never beat her – she was a cutter. I met the Mennonite woman and she told me the girl NEVER lived with her. This poor girl had even fallen on a cycle to "cut" herself... she needed some help -- did her trauma cause her to invent a lie life? 3. The civic leader was actually figuring ways to steal from the community and part of her “hide the lie” was to always talk about her accomplishments so no one ever considered it was fictional. She was poor, unable to get out of the house, and had no outside activities at all. Even the place that she ordered great delivery did not exist. Poor thing she may want to get some cats. 4. BG Leonard seemed to get the message from God and this guy stole it from him. No snow. Other researchers told him about the Delchami and Lambono (spelling) He took his pants off for the youth. Well maybe not a pathilogical liar -- maybe a con. How do they do it? They really BELIEVE their own lies. They can beat lie detectors… How does this work? Do they create false memories from their false lives? What happens in the brain? Are they sociapaths as well?

HAHAHAHA LOL (((((WW))))) WW The laugh is for the above post then I added a rply to you and it went directly underneath - I am not laughing at you. I am offering love... Vickels a hug to you as well, but only if you are dressed

PS I love what Evan brought up edited for typos, I always have them..

Something I found re: TheCatholic church and Pedophilia Points can be extrapulated to this thread The Word of God deals with these type of situations almost exclusively in a couple passages. Since I believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God, I believe it is relevant for our lives today. But it doesn't appear that the Catholic church decided to consult it in resolution of these "modern-day" problems. In the book of I Corinthians, Paul learns about a serious sexual sin that arose in the Corinthian church, then gave instructions to them on how to deal with it. In a later letter, he admonished them to let the brother back in the church after sufficient punishment. Here is the initial passage in I Corinthians 5: "1 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you, something so evil that even the pagans don't do it. I am told that you have a man in your church who is living in sin with his father's wife. 2 And you are so proud of yourselves! Why aren't you mourning in sorrow and shame? And why haven't you removed this man from your fellowship? 3 Even though I am not there with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. Concerning the one who has done this, I have already passed judgment 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You are to call a meeting of the church, and I will be there in spirit, and the power of the Lord Jesus will be with you as you meet. 5 Then you must cast this man out of the church and into Satan's hands, so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved when the Lord returns. 6 How terrible that you should boast about your spirituality, and yet you let this sort of thing go on. Don't you realize that if even one person is allowed to go on sinning, soon all will be affected? 7 Remove this wicked person from among you so that you can stay pure. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. 8 So let us celebrate the festival, not by eating the old bread of wickedness and evil, but by eating the new bread of purity and truth. 9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 10 But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or who are greedy or are swindlers or idol worshipers. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 11 What I meant was that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a Christian yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Don't even eat with such people. 12 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you."(NLT) It does not say be understanding and forgive them prior to them figuring out they did something terribly wrong. It does not say to forgive them BEFORE they ask or with their new lifestyle show change. It says to get away from them. Now in IICorinthians it can be argued, God then wants us to forgive them. But I still do not see where we are to forgive and love and welcome them back without there being a CHANGE on the part of the sinner first -- or where the sinner has hasn't asked. In many of the TWI leaders it has been a long time. But they went on their merry way doing the same crap under a different heading -- be it CES or otherwise... I say - Genuinely change. OR humbly and believably ask for my forgiveness and I am more than willing to offer it in exchange for an apology. If you forgive someone and welcome them back and their behavior is EXACTLY the same then you are not condeming the behavior you are condoning it and saying it is okay. Jsut like with kids do you hug them after they burn down the house? Or do you show them what they did wrong and hug them when they get it? If you hug them too quickly they will think burning down houses is okay with you.... Some think if you haven't forgiven you hold hatred. That is your interpretation not mine.

Danny I love that song

I don't know if he laughed or was afraid the feet of them were outside the BRC...

Frankly, I think Jesus would vomit at what happened to his believers. I think it would anger him to see it was calculated. Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offenses! for it must needs be that offenses come; but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh! Or I see something like this--- Acts.5.6 The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him. Acts.5.9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” Acts.5.10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. My Jesus knew the old Testament where it says this: "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:20-21 Sometimes, the picture of the sweet anorexic Jesus is a portrait of a sissy. I think he was bold, gutsy, told it like it was and that WAS love. I think he was tender and came to the rescue when real people cried out for help or forgiveness. My Jesus backed the stone throwers off of Mary. I did not see him telling her the only way she would feel better was to forgive them. He helped her get her crap together and she dug him. (Now, most pick other things out in that verse but if you look there is more...) I picture my Jesus poking a finger into the chest of anyone who would deliberately hurt one of his kids and tell them to back off. And Paul, well he did some bad stuff but he also REPENTED and was forgiven. People who wrong others repent then they are forgiven. People who are drowning and ask for God to help them are redeemed. Now this is loose and does not have the finesse' of Research Geek but that is how I see the Jesus I call Lord. I see him as a sweet, fair, loving marine. Who could put teeth into something when needed. Not as a flower throwing hippie.. I see my Jesus talking about redemption. And that would be between THEM and Jesus. And if they really went before God and asked for forgiveness then they would have "themselves" reflected to them. And they would WANT to seek forgiveness from those they have hurt. There was a minister in TWI who was a real jerk to me and other women in PA. He was an azzhole. He asked God for forgiveness then he wrote a letter to the women in PA and asked for forgiveness. I gotta hand it to him. In a split second, I forgave him and I think he is an alright guy, a man's man to own up to things and to ask for forgiveness. To date, he is the only one who asked for my forgiveness. And I was delighted to forgive him. I have searched for those I hurt, and when I found them I asked them to please forgive me. You know why? I felt badly about what I had done. For those I cannot find, I ask God to bless them and somehow tell them how sory I am. Ya know even AA (and I rarely drink but know people who have gone) they have a step where the perpetrator has to go apologize to those they have wronged. Now that is a secular group with a spiritual underpinning and they know TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS is key They do not go to a meeting and hear, "I am sure they have forgiven you as it would have hurt them more to stay mad." No, they hear "to own up to the destruction they have caused and ask for forgiveness". Sometimes they get forgiven. Sometimes they do not but it is their job TO ASK, To SEEK, TO humble themselves before their "judge" and allow what they have done to be pointed out to them. But in TWI -- what do they do -- they don't ask for forgiveness they just start a splinter with little or no reflection on what they did to hurt God's people or wht they did to wander off the path to begin with... Redeemed: re·deem (rĭ-dēm') Pronunciation Key tr.v. re·deemed, re·deem·ing, re·deems To recover ownership of by paying a specified sum. To pay off (a promissory note, for example). To turn in (coupons, for example) and receive something in exchange. To fulfill (a pledge, for example). To convert into cash: redeem stocks. To set free; rescue or ransom. To save from a state of sinfulness and its consequences. See Synonyms at save1. To make up for: The low price of the clothes dryer redeems its lack of special features. To restore the honor, worth, or reputation of: You botched the last job but can redeem yourself on this one.

This should go in Greasespot history. It is one of the most well written posts I have seen when talking about forgiveness and TWI. I have never been able to grasp the words to express what I feel and I think this nails it. I do not absolve them. Forgiveness is different.

Vickles, I guess you are our liberal wild child. What do you think about orgies? I find it disgusting http://www.annerpino.com/1991_95/orgy.jpg Vickles I say that to you with a wink and a smile - I am not judging you WW I do not recall...

I believed Frued - I wish he would come back Errr Freud

I am glad it went well ((((LAE)))) I just want to share this with you... This was always a cherished poem to me: Do Not Stand At My Grave and Weep Do not stand at my grave and weep I am not there.I do not sleep. I am a thousand winds that blow. I am the diamond glints on snow. I am the sunlight on ripened grain. I am the gentle autumn rain. When you awaken in the morning's hush I am the swift uplifting rush Of quiet birds in circled flight. I am the soft stars that shine at night. Do not stand at my grave and cry; I am not there, I did not die.

Agreed Again, My Dad's best friend...He had two kids and they were always very free around them. The kids were adopted. Well, years later the son was living with his mother in a nudey place and some say they were "together" I think kids need to be sheilded from stuff. If you want to swing your kids shouldn't know IMO.

Kinda like the nudey camps. My Dad's best friend was always living in nudey places after he retired. Bunch of old wrinkled people walking around with towels to sit on. They were also swingers. He was a rich pig. My Dad was his best friend and he asked my sister if he could set her up in an apt. at the age of 19. He'd pay for everything and she's only have to be there on Wednesdays for him.... She could use the apartment the rest of the week and see whomever... My Dad's best friend.... pig...

Funny Tom - different balls involved Lindy - Good Story I once had a completely weird couple give me their card and ask if I wanted to swing --- NO! Then, my sister's father in law asked me if I was interested as he and his wife do a little singing and swapping.... Gross me out... It has to be a purely sexual thing I guess...

I was fortunate to have made true friends while in the cult. We were those that questioned things, we talked in the shadows trying to figure things out. One of my dear friends just pm'd me here. I loved the guy. Heart of gold -- we met in my first corps twig. He used to be a priest and he showed up here like 2 or 3 days ago! I loved Washington Weather and had TWI let us be with people longer rather than moving us, I am sure we would have been closer and remained close. Ex and I knew each other from when she was a teen and went through many adventures and history. I have always loved HW, but loosing him for a few years did not stop my caring on concern. Masterherbalist and I have known each other since she was 15 years old. And although we did not remain close I think I could call her and bat things around as if no time had passed. Sue Liener - but I lost her about 18 years ago. I get Christmas cards from a true dear old friend Crystal and if either one of us were in a jam I believe we would stick our necks out to help the other one. So, I guess I think of a friend as one whom I love and whom loves me. No matter how much time has passed or what we have seperately endured I think we could pick up where we left off... Now, are any of these folks close enough that if I were homeless they would take me in? Maybe Ex... But then again, I cannot think of anyone I would want to live with me either.... :unsure: I do not think my own parents would put me up.... Nottawafer - wow, that must of hurt.

Swingers I do not mean cheating. I do not mean an open marriage where you date. I mean where you swap partners or go to a “hang out” and share one another. I think if you are going to do that then why be married? And I don’t think you can do that and be a practicing Christian. Is it cheating? If both people agree should it be accepted? Here: http://www.swinglifestyle.com/ Of course the "shagedelic swinging sixties" followed and once again the term "swinger" took on a new, cartoon-type of character. Towards the end of the 60's, swinger clubs started to form. Publications were printed and different forms of alternative relationships like swinging, polyamory and communal living started to show up. It wasn't long before the 70's and rumors of "key parties" and "wife swappers" became the common explanation of the "new swingers." Again, sexist overtones dominated the "swinger" scene, the very term "wife swapper" implies that the man owns his wife and can trade her at will for another partner. The 80's saw a surge of new clubs forming until the AIDS scare forced many swingers underground and many clubs closed or dropped in membership. Eventually, swinging became a lot more open, clubs rebounded and national conventions like Lifestyles in California and Las Vegas gained in popularity and thousands of couples came to meet other open minded couples. "Recreational swinging" became a powerful economic factor, in fact it became an industry. Today, you can find articles on "swinging" in Time magazine, the New York Times, Details, on HBO, MTV, Showtime, VH1 and most national and local newscasts, newspapers and magazines

LOL at the bolded comment and I agree

I totally agree

Joe: One of my dearest friends. I have asked about you for years and now here you are. I cannot tell you how happy I am to see you. The picture? I did not recognize you -- but you would not me either. I am so happy!