Dot Matrix

I agree - I surrender

Yeah, the heaven it seems in the OT is not the future thing – sorry, I misspoke Abi The Docs were telling me about a part of the Jewish faith called mes ionic Judaism. They believe in Jesus --- Well, I do not worship Jesus as God, etc., so I feel interested in this. However, Dr. said I would have to become a Jew first, then believe in Jesus, I cannot just go join. He said Jews do not prostelitize as they are not looking for recruits. They kinda want to be left alone to live their lives. I really like these guys and how they think, but I do not want to become Jewish in order to then become a messianic Jew, cause I am not giving up Jesus. Especially just to accept him back after accepted by the Jews. I have been looking for a place to worship. But I find the whole thing more closely to what I believe. I believe Jesus is the messiah and well… this seems closer than a lot of other thigs. I do have to read about it more as I have just been listening to the Doc. "Messianic Judaism is a religion centered on the life, teachings and worship of Jesus of Nazareth, called "Yeshua" by its adherents. It is reported to have at least 47,000 followers and 280 congregations worldwide as of 2006"

Side note: When I was writing, I decided to submit in the genre of Romance novels. I had to read each publishing house and see what they were publishing. What irked me was how many books had a woman saying, “no” and the man would “take” her anyway. AND in the books, she would learn to love him and they would live happily ever after. It made me sick. In one house, I forget now, the lovers had to meet early on and have sex by a certain page and all this was done in an antagonist/protagonist fashion until they “fell in love” I believe this type of writing (reading) convinced women and girls that there was “happiness” at the end of an abusive start. I think it was fodder to rape. It was written prose, to validate the thinking, that a woman should be grateful for a man’s advances no matter how unwanted. She would beat on his chest and deny him “access” then purr like a kitten when she finally learned her place and did submit.

This is waht gets me from the article posted: .

BTW I also know a man raped by a woman. He was a young man and she was his sister-in-law in her thirties. They were partying in California at a “big hotel” some celebrities had been there. Big part thrown by the brother and sis-in-law Any way, the younger man had a few drinks and went to sleep in his own room. In the dark of the night, he awoke with someone already moving in the sex act on him. (As a young man, he awoke ever day to a tent) He was awaking in enjoyment and wondered who it was, he had been flirting with a “celebrity” and thought maybe….. As a crack of light came in and focused on HER it was his sis-in-law. He yelled, “STOP” and pushed her as she tried to continue and he knocked her off. Now in this case I think rape and jail can be synonymous. The spousal thing, well many, many workings of the marriage, of “that time ”, and intimate things would have to be considered before I could or perhaps a jury would find this “continued” sex (free of punches, or weapons) would be rape worthy of jail time, IMO

Well now I am not sure I understand -- Okay_ When I thought spousal sex included punches I was all for going to jail -- I am now speaking of spousal sex and spousal rape I am now going to flip flop as I gain more understanding… If a spouse consents to the act of sex and we are in the middle of it, and I am at the climatic point where the walls are fuzzy, the phone ringing is barely heard and the feeling from a certain area is where my focus is and the man says stop it may take a second or two to get it together to stop as triggers have all been tripped. If I am six seconds to stopping and my spouse then cried rape, I gotta tell you, I think that is completely unfair and out of line. So, if a man, who (forgive me but these are buzz lines, not excuses but perhaps buzz lines because they have a genetic reason) thinks with his “Richard” is happily having sex with his wife and she says stop… How long does he get? If he takes another five minutes of me saying stop and he is still going at it, well, I would be ....ed. We would have a serious talk but I would not say he raped me as in the context of “you need to go to jail.” Not when we consensually got to the middle, near the end or entered into the “act.” I think that is unfair. Yes, I have the right to say stop, I should expect it to stop if it doesn’t we have “problems” I do not know if spousal rape can be considered the name of that problem. And ecven if we conclude RAPE is the name of the problem, I am not convinced that JAIL should be one of the puishments (And I say all of this not only as the hair club president but as a client – a bit of humor to say I have lived this. I did have a panic attack and I was in pain, and it did continue.) A term I have used is "a selfish narcissistic pig of a spouse, inconsiderate, never thinking of me, selfish scum in bed where all this manifests in a microcosm of time." But I would not press charges. I might even tell him it felt like rape once I said “stop” but to go as far as pressing charges in this situation? I might get him to see how it was “rape” to me, or like rape to me. But press charges? I feel that would be wrong. However, I would not be inclined to “try it again” unless things have changed. So, are we talking it is rape – or it is rape worthy of him going to jail?

Love your post

I am not in a debate. I work with two Jeswish guys. We talk about many enlightening things. The other day, one was explaining to me how as a jew they believe in doing good things now, not for any future "heaven" or rewards. The acts of kindness are really self contained. They do them to make the world a better place for someonw else right NOW. I wondered what it would be like to think there was no heaven and I told him, ya know, without my belief in heaven -- I do not think I would want to continue to live. I do not find life all that great. He said that is why Christians invented heaven -- it maks life tolerable. I have been thinking about what he said. I do not see heaven in the OT IS it a CHristain revelation? If it is an invention, I would be oh so sad. Even if it isn't there believing it is DOES make life tolerable. This guy bought an air pump and will actually put air in tires of strangers when he sees them going flat. He lives a "kind" and giving life with no expectations of being "paid back" or rewarded in heaven. He does things because they are the right thing to do and when he dies he expects to be put in the ground and it is over. I never knew they did not believe in heaven. His kindness even meant more to me as he explained his beliefs. And I asked about hell and he said they do not believe in that either. To live a rotten life and to be mean to people also brings immediate things back to you. Cause pain -- get pain. Then, I was just very humbled by all of this. I said, "So, you are just kind?" He said yeah and everyone hates us. Now there are some bas tards that are Jews, he said, but the teachings are to be good and helpful people today and each day. I really like these Jewish men, apparently I am a heaven believing Shiksta (sp?) I like the sense of community. And the ethics are great.

Happy Birthday!

Happy Birthday!!!!

OMG I am so very sad by this news -- I hope this just becomes a break. I cannot tell you how much I have enjoyed your posts. I feel a little sick right now. A big hug Dot

Okay, Christians believe in heaven. They believe in the Old testament. Jews believe in the Old testament. They do not believe in heaven or hell. Why don't Jews believe in heaven and hell and Christians do?

Sioux and Caribo Yes!

Sex was an answer to many things in TWI Let’s see it was said to different women that their ministry was their bodies and the like It was said “it was a privilege to bless (screw) a man of God.” Ex knew of a couple having problems and they were counseled, I believe she was ordered or directed to give her husband more BJ’s. VPW asked me to go on a three day trip with him after asking me to “perform” (and I said no to performing) -- I will leave it to you – what he expected on the trip. They showed porn flicks at the advanced class. Weirwille would tell us to masturbate to “stay sweet” Is it any wonder how some of us are a bit confused Potato-I brought up the role playing. It was that I (they) would be more willing to do things like that if (I) was genuinely loved, cherished, and verbally caressed. But to have someone treat you like dog poop makes sex a horrible thing to do with a person like that. It makes it revolting to have to be touched by a vile and loathsome person. Cringe at the thought…. And if forced I would probably get into a fist fight or commit suicide or divorce – anything not to HAVE to have that happen again. But if loved, you wouldn’t have to beg, push me, force me etc. If loved I would want to be touched by that man.

Potato that link I posted included this Marital Rape: The victim is raped by her husband. Example: A woman recently had gynecological surgery. Two days after she came home from the hospital, her husband forced her to have sexual intercourse. This caused her to hemorrhage; she was re-hospitalized. http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Ab..._definition.htm

I love the dog who saw the cushy life the dalmation had then got dirty spots and took advantage of that!

(I was ready to reply to Sioux I forget how to spell your handle and I am afraid if I go back I will loose this post. So, I apologize. I am having trouble with the quote thing.) But I reread Potato's post -- the part with a few punches --- I must have blocked that out. Gosh, yes rape. Potato, your experience is similar to my dear friend's. He beat her. She lived in fear with blackened eyes and terrible bruises. He would make her "do it" with threats and beatings and fear of more beatings.... even when the children ran in to see why Mommy was crying. He would continue his vile sexual pleasure as they stood there watching and crying... He is a vile creature, a criminal and should be in jail

Joe Pasha said: I did always picture these "boys" as younger like 10/12. How old are alter boys? And yes your example of a threat in an effort to gain sexual acomplishments, would be rape to me. Not in the classic sense with the window climbing criminal -- but rape. Like White collar crime -- different but STILL a crime.

I love this! I think people want and need to be loved. If they were really loved at home, if they were made to feel comfortable about their body as it ages (not 20 anymore) they might still be playful, loving, willing and try new things. They (might) would roll play, dress up, and explore. But when sex becomes an expected act from an emotional stranger/verbal abuser then it is an odor filled sweaty mess they cannot wait to shower after. One day mine took my hand and I thought it was to be tender -- it was to point out how wrinkled it had gotten --- stand back ladies he's mine. But back to the rape thing I wanted to address Joe.

Do you think she was raped? I do...

I know that is what you think, I believe you made that clear. (((Chatty)))) When I say those that think it is due, there are men who think to tell me that they have power over my body as it says so in the Bible -- Well, it also says to cherish your wife. So, ysome husbands who are deplorable have no right to expect sex in my book, and to force it on anyone is not right

Potato My post was not a judgement but a general statement... Only you know how bad it was. I had a wife beater once upon a time. I should have pressed charges against him and today I would. But I would not press charges if at the end of the day we both had to go back to the same home. He would have to be removed or it wouldn't be safe. I have a dear woman friend whose husband only got off when he saw blood -- he was a vile creature. He'd have to beat or punch her to get excited. At the time, when she went for help there was nothing out there... She was frightened of him but there was no where to go. In that case, today with the options, I would beg her to call the police and help hide her in a shelter or something... Another friend had nothing but a drunk for a husband. He was cruel as they can be. But when drunk he always wanted "loving" and would demand it (force her when she would say no, please....) Of course it was awful, the stench, the selfishness, the time consumption... Being in the same house she was more frightned to say "no" then just just grin and bear it. It is such a line and each relationship has different dynamics. I would have shot him with a pepper gun and left the house - I think. But then, there is always consequences with men/people like that. Maybe in your case you could press charges and be safe. Then, man go for it. I do not believe anyone should force sex on anyone else. It is MINE and I should not be forced to give it a way. And those that think it is due... There are some nice things the Bible talks about in marriage to ensure we are taken care of -- missing those things, well....

Not directed at anyone but addressing how I feel about the marriage thing Marriage brings a whole different dimension to the issue of rape. IMO If a woman is treated like crap, called names, perhaps even has her husband pretend to vomit in the trash can when she comes on to him, then expect sex because of the vows and the ring – he will have nothing to kiss except my azz. If the marriage is somewhat normal and she just thinks “well, sex is one aspect I am not going to do” – then there is a problem as I think sex is a reasonable expectation to getting married unless discussed prior. Perhaps, therapy or an arrangement to go outside the marriage. If the marriage disengages over time to a sexless marriage, and someone wants it out of the blue, then there is some wooing that needs to transpire to restart the flame. Forcing someone is not romance. When someone forces you to perform like a trained seal because of a ring – then that is rape. Get divorced. See other people. But do not expect to let the marriage fall into disrepair and expect a physical tune-up because “I owe” you. If it isn’t healthy remove yourself. I would not press charges against a man I lived with – but if I moved out an he paid an unwanted visit and forced me – I would press charges. But this is very personal... Only the two of you know if sex was used as a weapon or a withholding tool to get what you want...

Hope and Hubs? Any word?