Dot Matrix

Yes, Eyes unfortunately we go 'round the same mountain yearly if not bi-yearly. (More or less) There are usually more people who speak out against the horrid treatment dished to those who speak out, but Raf is on the honeymoon (or just back) Zixar doesn't vist often, Satori must be busy at home with the new family, I haven't seen Sunesis either this time, unfortunately we lost George (longgone) and (maybe) Jimmy Dopp as they passed away - what wonderful people they were. The pro VPW -- "he couldn't have done that, even if he did I will follow him, where is the proof?" camp, lost MIKE. But they picked up Jeaniam.

Waysider: Funny you should break it down to be so easily understood... The evil girl, Marsha talks about, is also the evil girl who tried to ruin my life. She was always acting. One time, one of her WOW's came to pour their heart out or something, and she cried with them, when they left she told me "God gave me the tears" she really hadn't felt anything. Which god? She was a minister and one of VP's hookers. Very early corps. So, she could act. She would go on stage with the "keep it in your pants" message to the WOW's then we would go to a bar, where she would get so drunk, she would "function" without memory, and I would have to tell her what she had done the night before.... As she lay in bed with a "pick-up" guy with whom she had had sex. Yes, hot Bible, telling the WOW's to keep it in their pants, and she was out of hers with a stranger less than 4 hours later. Eyes It's okay baby, you just have a big heart

Worried about you all. Let us know you are safe!!! I am just sick over this whole bridge thing, please please check in

Don't fret Eyes, We do this about once a year.

Boy, is that ever true

Gosh Dove, where did you get that from: the Pharesee handbook? <_<

There is no blue dress, so I guess opening my heart to someone like you for help, comfort or understanding is futile. That is a shame, I think your real potential will never be reached if you cling to this way of dealing with a big part of the body of Christ who has been injured. When your child came home from school crying did you blame him? Did you have proof NOT to blame him? WWJD? Would he turn his back on a ruptured and bleeding flock, make fun of them? Would he say, "YOU should have seen the wolf coming?" Or would he deal with the sheperd who allowed, or did this to his own flock? I do not think you are heartless, just fiercely loyal to a man who does not deserve you in his corner.

W&W I do know that power of which you speak... If you people who saw him on stage felt a "power" a presence, then imagion in a one on one situation. At one point he said to me in a command, Let me see your legs. I had on a dress. I thought who the he ll are you? but I found myself lifting my dress a little as I was looking AGAIN for a way to get away from him. I recall years ago, a girl shared a story how she did VP's hair. One day he told her to get on her knees and with such command she found herself on her knees he was on a chair (naked, if I recall correctly) before her. Next thing she knew, he forced his penis in his mouth. There was a power and it wasn't godly. It was a strong demanding force. And I, a crazy Irish fighting broad, hiked up my dress even though my mid was going crazy with "fight". I never understood that action until reading all the accounts here and hearing SOM and W&W talk about the power he had. It was NOT from God.

White Dove I did go back and confront him with scripture. He told me (in so many words) that I was screwed up for trying to reprove him. He said, "Whatsoever things are pure... think on those things... To the pure ALL things are pure...." Anyway, he was trying to tell me his SINNING was okay because he was pure and if I didn't SEE it that way then I was impure. You cannot fight that kind of logic. And the ONLY reason I am not among the rape victims is one day at HQS. God told me to get off grounds and not to sign out. When I came back I was told VP was mad and looking for me, as he wanted to take me on a three-day trip to Indiana. That is how he got Excathedra. He got her on a trip cause you have to have something to drink at one point or another. I had previously told him "no," I had confronted him, and he was still determined.. Here is the thing Dove, you have been married. Were you ever hurt in that marriage? Did you leave the first time you were hurt? The first time you thought things were not right? Or did you keep going back trying to fix things because you thought your wife was special? Why do women or men who are hit by their spouse, sit with their blackened eyes and blood filled noses and say, "He didn't mean it. He loves me. Things will get better." Excathedra had seen something in the people who told her about Jesus. She saw hope and joy and she wanted some of it. Coming form a home full of horrors, one seeks a family environment. Why do you think “gangs” are so popular? There is a feeling of “family” we all seek and those of us who did not find it in our earthly homes look elsewhere. Surely you can see that. Excath saw something she longed for in those young vibrant girls, and they told her they learned about love from this old guy “VPW”. Naturally, she wanted to meet him! It was like meeting the pope. Just as you did not think of divorce the first time you saw something you didn’t like in your marriage – neither did she want to see “problems” with the “leader” of this group of new friends she just met. And Marsha? Have you ever gone back to a gravesite because something is not finished and talked to a grave stone? Or sent flowers to the grave? That is not really rational. It is so shocking to realize the guy you followed into the corps, the man you thought breathed words of life into your lost soul, the reason you skipped college and went into the corps is REALLY a creep. That you are almost pulled back for a second look – Did it happen? When the married region guy crept into my bed (uninvited) and the next thing I know he was “in” me, I was shocked, traumatized. Face down I was waking up to the uninvited or expected act. My belief system was shaken! He was a Man who hours before taught Hot Bible. I was so confused, I thought “Does he love me?” “Are we going to date now?” “What does this mean?” “HE must have not meant to do this, he is a Man of God.” I could not believe I was raped by him. I went back the next day, in my confused and shocked state and I thanked him for coming. I should have called the police. But there was so much to loose. I had already left my house, my friends and family to be in TWI. It was my LIFE. If I acknowledged what happened to me then it was all a joke, a lie, it was nothing. Then, where did that leave all my deliverance in PFAL? Was that an illusion? I did tell on him to other ministry leaders -- so they had an area meeting (they would not let me attend) and told everyone I was possessed. Then, tried to push me to suicide - after all it is better to loose one, so the team can continue on. So, I wanted to tell VPW about this guy and the GIRL who was also involved in pimping women. When he sent for me I thought it was my chance to save the ministry from these “devils” he had in power. Only, he was naked and asked me …. I said no, and mentally lost my mind for a moment. Then, this stuff on the field would not be stopped by him – he perpetuated it. So, if you will for one moment become human, without the walking billboard of thinking positives about VP, trying not to let our words touch your memory of him, and what you think he was. Can you for one minute understand people are not robots. To think these girls should have said "no", or walked away, or stayed out of harms way, would work if we were robots. But we are complex humans. We run into burning buildings to save screaming children, we believe a husband is going to stop beating us, or that the man who taught us PFAL can’t be bad. So, we walk back into a situation cause we can’t believe it, or because we are tormented by what we saw – or confused by what broke in us. We go back for the same reasons you and your wife did not divorce the FIRST time you had a fight. We hope for the best, we get confused by things that are so outrageous they cannot be true -- but they are, we don't want to hurt, we want to fix things. We are so shaken it, is an effort to breath, let alone think and act rationally. We are shocked and devastated. Didn't you ever have your heart break? Surely you have been confused when your heart broke. Can't you be as kind to Marsha, Excath, Catcup or me? Imagine, being raped by VPW. Really imagine waking up with him next to you naked, all you know is you had a drink and now you know this man "took" you sexually. How rational are you going to be? Are you going to kill him? Beat him up? Act like it didn't happen? Or enjoy it and become a groupie as different people respond differently. There is no normal way to respond to this, please give Marsha a break.

And Mr. Lingo Had you awakened in the motor coach without any pants on, a sore bum, telltale seamen on said sore bum after having a "drink" with VPW - I dare say, this forum would be about the day VP was beaten to death by Johnny Lingo There would be no spin off cults or accolades.

Garth said "You don't want to believe their accounts? Fine, and nobody can (or will) make you believe otherwise. Suffice it to say that the jury here at Greasespot has made up its mind (and I can say this as I see the majority of people here agree with this) as to VPW's guilt. And while there is or has been no jury that has determined Wierwille guilty from a legal standpoint, we can determine him guilty in our own beliefs and convictions, which appeal to a more moral standard." Very sad, but true. Personally, I like WD because I feel he really is committed to trying to "stand" and he likes Melanie (the singer). I just feel it is very sad he has as one of his role models "VPW" ( The typical response will be show me where I SAID role model) He doesn't know VPW or me. But with being here 8 years or whatever it has been, I think he has had as much time to see that I am real. He saw VP as real and hears the terrible things he did. The only difference can be that VPW reached his heart with great things.... Those things were classes such as PFAL. I also got great deliverance in PFAL. But there comes a time to realize the class and VPW are not synonymous. If anyone really kicks it in with Discerning, they might see that VPW bringing the PFAL class to us was the greatest bait and switch scam I have ever seen. Steal a great class, call it your own. The word of God in that class DID help me. Then, have VPW show his doctrine of devils to a grateful following. Many of these guys say they would have walked away, I think not. I bet some of you would have fallen prey to whatever he spoke as being some sort of truth, and had you have received the German pecker in your “rearend” after being given a drink- this whole forum would be about you guys screaming to be heard, warning us, and trying to help others out of the web of lies woven on the foundation of truth ferreted out of the Bible by other men; true God-loving men.

Well, so much has happened since I was here last. I only brought up the DOCTRINE vs. mistake because people always discuss David's mistake with Bethsheba and Uriah. He made a terrible mistake and repented. VPW made a Doctrine, a way of life out of hurting women, he taught it to the inner circle and demanded they comply. When they didn't they were "given" something to drink to make them comply. Men were told they could not go very far without the sexual "servicing" in their lives. Very different from David. Who did it once and repented. The thing that is shocking to me is the very MEN who claim to love God, to have learned so much from VPW, to still cling to the Word of God, are the ones lacking the most in simple compassion. Also they will not see, we really were in a cult VP started with the stolen works of a man of God, and his own doctrine of devils. VP was brilliant. The devil was brilliant. What a way to take people out! Allow them the deliverance of the Word of God, get them excited, then switch the product. I had great times in the counterfeit BG Leonard class known as "PFAL". But all those times I had where God was able to work were short lived compared to the doctrine of devils that followed Once freed from the doctrines of devils, I was able to resume my studies. First, I did get BG's book.

Abi I am sick Everyone They got Cotton the cat back, he was walking around outside the house. They found Meeshe hiding and Happy had ran down the basement. They stole another pit off someone's porch, cute sweet dog.

Alfa I agree with your post, I think what "they" think is that VP made a "mistake" It was NOT a mistake it was inner circle doctrine. That is not a mistake. It is a way of life, it is what you believe, sell, push and demand. It did not matter that Ex said NO repeatedly. He decided he would "take" her against her will - KNOWING she turned him down, he gave her drinks (drinks that made her feel different, and loose some time) then, we hear later that girls were being drugged. People, this is not a great man who made a mistake. He was a calculating bas$ tard.... No one is going to say no to "me".... It is a privilage to be with "me" (moggie) This is doctrine, this kind of thinking was at his core.

When you say, i didn't think dr. would try to heal me anymore since i was engaged" - you mean when he tried to grop your breasts and "get" you to consent but you didn't (For all the folks who think girls could say "no" She did, then it appears he drugged her in a drink.) The "thing" being poked at you was his penis - looking to "take" you again without your consent? MMmmmm sounds like rape to me.

I am sorry your TWI friendships were one dimentional. Some of mine turned out to be -- but the deep ones were multi -layered. To be marked and avoided is a horrible thing to deal with, that would rip any trust from under me as far as allowing anyone in my life - I think I am just unwilling to loose things like ethics to have freinds - like my sister did in my example. Sounds like you have found some nice folks. I reconnected with some old high school friends as well. It has been fun.

Bramble I reconnected with cousins and that has been great as well. But we connect due to blood. Some are also into God stuff and that makes our connection better as there are more layers to it. I just wish I could go to a place like twig in the 70's where in the twigs, of which I was a part, we all had a "family" feel and were always excited and talking about the cool stuff God did for us that week. Maybe those were a special gift from God to survive what he knew was ahead.... The weirdness of TWI and the dismantling of what used to be my life. I am reading Smith Wigglesworth and boy his life was what I saw in the early years.... It is exciting. People getting healed, people standing in prayer with others, singing.... Eyes I know what you mean. We did not always have to be discussing God, there was a connection... Thanks to everyone, all great posts!

I have friends in the pet rescue business. And with that as our common ground it has been great moving toward one goal. So, those friends in that relationship, have only one layer. We love pets. We may find other things in common but our friendship does have that - no matter how one dimensional. However, I miss the fullness of real Christian friends whose commonality was/is Jesus Christ. It seems those friendships had endless layers as the Lord has endless goodness and things happening. I miss those honest to God -- God relationships. Yes. alone and lonely are different. Yes, some dear friends I have made here. But the screen friends, although appreciated, are not enough. I want to pray and sing and share miracle stories in a group. Sometimes, I think there is no such "group". Maybe it is just one heart at a time and perhaps those hearts are miles away from one another. But I do think "friends" -- the wrong ones, can drag one down, and isolation can drag one down to the end that that person is allowing things in his/her life they would not have allowed otherwise. Thus, the expression the preacher used, "I had these friends" and his exhortation to be with healthy people. At work they say "good employees are hard to find" so are "good" friends, IMO Since TWI, I have befriended some very unhealthy people who were up to no good in my life. If God tells us not to fellowship with darkness then there must be a place to find "people of light" and fellowship with them. I miss those people.

I read this on Fellowship in church -- Kind of what I found: Fellowship in a Denomination? Attendance in a denomination (a so called Church) does not make you a Christian, as folk who attend such places fall into a number of categories, some may be Christians, but many may not be Christians. Joyce Meyer always says - if I sit in a garage all week it doesn't make me a car!!! The folk in the congregation may look like this: * Pew sitter who truly believes and has received The Christ, or received by The Christ, * Pew sitter who is comfortable in attending, but does not know The Christ, * Pew sitter who is truly seeking, and: * Preacher who knows The Christ, * Preacher who knows The Christ and actually preaches the true Gospel,, * Preacher who knows not The Christ and may simply be a paid worker, and: * Elder who knows The Christ, * Elder who knows not The Christ. And many others. So please, do not be intimidated if you wish to attend a denomination to take a look, or to seek true Christian fellowship, just remember that it is more than likely full of a mix of folk like the above.

I am listening to this preacher who says he had an old high school friend who killed someone. He went to see him and he asked, "Where did it all go wrong?" The response was, "I had these friends." He said this is why God told the children of Israel to hand with people of like beliefs; marry a nice Jewish boy/girl etc. Samson, I believe he had the STRONG trigger of loneliness, which had him hanging with the wrong people, he then got into places- situations which could hurt him, broke principals. The children of Israel that were Road down: People - are you always with complainers or are you one? The children of Israel were rescued from slavery then COMPLAINED about things and were stuck eating Manna for 40 years. Places - The wrong people keep you or take you to places where you should not be Principals - We break principals to be accepted and we wind up grinding corn like Samson Road Up Commitment Proverbs 18: 24 Confidentiality Can your friends keep secrets? Proverbs 11:13 (Gossip) betrays a confidence, a trustworthy man (friend) keeps a secret Constructive Prov. 27:17 - friend sharpens a friend Now, it was 30 minutes and I cannot capture all of it here, but what hit home is "I had these friends" My sister just called a few days ago. She said it was YEARS since she had friends so she began to hang out with women she works with. They were "loose" and drank too much, cursed God etc. But she had "friends" for the first time since TWI fell apart in the 80's (TWI 1) Because of those friends; she went to "new" places. Bars and other people's parties, etc. The result has been drunkard ness to the end that she slept on the FRONT lawn one night. (She has a huge expensive house with 4 acres) A boyfriend who is a jobless alcoholic, adultery behind her husband's back, lies to sneak around and not paying attention to her kids. I have heard this story with slight variations throughout the years since I left TWI 1. I have NOT found the "good" friends as I had in TWI 1, many of my friends have turned from God, cursing, swearing and running around - the very things they hated about VPW or Criag! Some people have become toxic as they delved into the world and let go of the hand of Jesus. Do we stay close or remove ourselves? When "NEW" people invite you to the party "that will be a GOOD time." And you know it means too much beer, and an anything goes attitude, do we go? So, at what price to you keep them close? When do you walk away? Where do you find "healthy" companions? Why is alone so bad? 2nd Corinthians Chapter 6 Verse 14: "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness"? Ephesians Chapter 5 Verse 11: "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]". 2nd Corinthians Chapter 6 Verse 14: "Wherefore come out from among them, and be separate saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing": Funny, but in many verses the Greek word Skotos was used for darkness. It means an active darkness if you read up on it throughout. Darkness is not "still" it has activity. Anyway, how hard has it been for you to find "healthy" friends? It has been VERY difficult for me. Perhaps, church does not have all the answers - maybe it is a good place to look. I do not know. I want to talk about how great God is, miracles, answers to prayers and excitement. Recently, one poster and his wife (who are new) reminded me of how great that kind of relationship is - as they are those kind of people. I miss the singing, the talk and excitement about God, the hope and a variety of things I used to have regularly. I do not want to fellowship with darkness, nor do I want to become darkness

Johnny- My friend just told me about the Medical Journal (I think in Europe) they do have clinical proof that it does lead to psychosis later on in life. So, yes, I heard this. It is interesting. Thanks for sharing it Interesting, when I was studying nursing (and quit) I was in an Alzheimers unit and a nurse said to me -- that our alzheimers will look different because of all the drugs our generation did.

How can people open up fences and garages and let someone elses' pets out? Unless, the pet is in danger - like not being fed orsomething.

Crime is painful. against kids and animals, to me it is worseWe micro chhip -- but it is only found if the dog goes to a place where the "wand" the dog and see there is a chip. Tom, you have one that THEY can be found? Bumpy, yes I live in ATL. half of us - both black and white want to see him go to prison. I heard on the news that Vic is playing the race card -- I am not sure how someone does that in this case? What would you say, you are picking on me 'cause I am black? No, it is because you ARE horrible and tortured animals.... We have black clients who are totally committed to their pets and they hope he gets the max. It isn't about race, it is about crime. One of our black clients has a cat with cancer. He just spent a a small fortune to have the cancer removed. This big guy holds his cat like one might hold a son before they go off to college. Tears in his eyes, he says how can Vic do the things he did to animals? So, clearly it is NOT a racial line that was crossed. It is humans with hearts for pets trying to understand/punish humans who torture them. Rottie - I feel you.

PTL

I love it!!! (The threat part)