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Raf- I am so happy for you

I do not drink nor get wasted. However, if I had a nice wine cooler I would like to see Salvador Dali drunk... He is weird enough straight. http://faridasl.com/images/Salvador%20Dali...aridasl.com.jpg Edited to add Katie Couric, I bet she has a wild side Barbara Walters and Rosie O'Donnel drinking and fighting together

I have missed you!

Notta -- WOW WB - So, you think having an alcoholic relative sets one up for the sociapath -- or the alcoholic is the sociapath?

I forgot about this I just sent it to a new man-friend whose x-wife is bi-polar Thanks

They were non-drinkers It was the times, it was only recently in the whole scheme of life that woman voted, smoked, were accepted at college earned equal wages. It is not an alcohol thing -- it was a social norm thing. Just a few years later and it seemed all the ladies were going to college and realized they could have life outside of being a "womb", cook or housekeeper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment We are fortunate enough to see a bunch of old thinking disappear and change the world for future generations. But regardless, the sociopath does know how to strike a chord on the person looking for the music. There are plenty of successful women who have been conned who did not have alcoholic parents, they just were too trusting. BTW The sociapath of whom I speak, did not drink either, but his "nationality" is very male dominated. But I am speaking of sociapaths -- sweetheart swindlers -- dream weavers. I am honest and direct. I am still caught off guard by deceit, intentional swindling, bait and switch -- the sociapaths who have walked beside us in life. I personally think VIC was one. Did you have a line of drinkers in your family before VPW? I am sure some/many did. Many of us were looking for family. Looking for love. I think people like him know that and exploit it.

He never drank until long after I left the house then he was having after dinner drinks etc.

Twinky, I have failed me. I am sorting it all out.

There are many ministries and the Moses ministry is one of them. If one chooses to equate what Pawtucket has done to that of Moses it would be their own inability to see beyond the hemmed in definitions given to certain “ministries” or to make smaller the vastness of God’s ubiquitous nature --being able to provide for the hurting-- by those willing to open their arms in many aspects of “ministry.” So, in agreement (written in my own understanding) with Satori if one sees Paw as Moses --- they need to eventually look up and see God. I once led people across a rushing stream but I did not see my mission as “Moses like”. It was a stream. The only thing in common was the water and the need to cross it. Pawtucket, John Juedes and many others which I believe include Raf, Socks and Evan have also crossed a swollen stream and that which was similar to Moses was “water”. I do not believe Moses is to be defined by this little board here called Greasespot, but nor do I believe the enormity of which God provided via Paw’s willingness to step forward should be minimized either. Simply different. I, for one, now know the difference between GOD and looking for a person to be GOD to me. And earlier in the thread someone called those who said good things about Ralph “worshipers”. Nice try. Just as I refer to Pawtucket as having a ministry I do not see him as the “way” through the swollen waters. But I do see him as ONE of us who stood up and DID something while a majority of people only "squeak up" with their meanness to try and hurt people who actually tried to do something… I see him as someone who did not sit down on the swollen banks and complain there is no way across it – but as one who did something to build a bridge. Ultimately it is the requirement of the person who WANTS to get from one point to the other to GET UP and walk across it. I agree with Abigail and Satori in that respect, which is what I gathered by their posts. But I do not agree in that he is a facilitator nothing more. He has given much more than that – and that may be the problem. Maybe he needs to back-up and let the "season change" from being a “ministry” to being a thick-skinned facilitator and let God work through others. Perhaps, it is as simple as Paw turning off his phone, delegating responsibility, and those that want to be vulgar and cry like babies, at any and all chastisement, can go to the "other" site.

TWI caught me on the hamster wheel of circular thinking… How could a great class come from a bad man? This had me spinning and undelivered for YEARS. I was afraid to go to church, to think, I loved God but (upon the removing of layers of wrong teaching - I saw) I truly was afraid I was going to be a greasespot by midnight. I had dreams of “vein popping Craig” and of a not very well endowed Weirwille. But most of my nightmares were about me in “real life” being unable to move forward. Jesus says: "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." - Matthew 11:28-30 I knew this in my head. My heart somewhere carried the messages of LCM and VPW that “somehow I left God and my life would befell many hardships”. Really their words were as curses and "if believed" would manifest as stated. This enabled fear to have a foot hold. The ministry, and do not doubt it is a ministry, of Pawtucket here at Greasespot and the site of John Juedes have enabled me to break free of the “curses” spoken over us by TWI to their congregation. Pawtucket and John Juedes have suffered many brutal verbal attacks (IMO) as a result of their mission/calling/direction/kindness to try and help people get out of a corn field cult. There are those that cry “I love you, Paw.” Or “Thank God for John” or even how grateful they were to people such as “Ralph” but act as a venomous snake slithering through the grasses to bite the ankle of people actually doing something to help the hurting.... shame on you. I am a firm believer in actions speaking louder than words. You cannot love a man then seek to destroy him with the knife in your right hand while feeding him candy in your left. The biggest insult I see is to then call their site a “cult” which is the complete 180 degree turn from the truth, or say to a crusader of truth – “you should have done more…” While their cigarette/cigar ash hangs precariously over their 9th martini. Which to me means those carrying those accusations are housing “devils” themselves. (ill intentions for those who do not believe in spirits) Yet, John Juedes stayed open, Pawtucket continued, and even Ralph offered his helping hand when led. But some whinny, crying, destructive entities can rise up from their kitchen table and in their ministry of “one” decide to object to any and all things that bother them, while adding nothing to humanity or goodness, while offering no safe haven to the lost – this is ludicrous. And yet we give (((hugs))) and “I love you’s" because we are too inept to figure out how to really help these idiotic, attacking, sniping people. But Paw? He who suffers most of the attacks? He continues forward. That folks, to me, is amazing. So, to all the people who have flame broiled Pawtucket, let me ask you what good have you done here? In your life? What lamp have YOU offered to the lost in the night? “What good are you?” When you snarl at the hand offering you food? Or you reject the life raft sent to you as you are tossed at sea? Perhaps, your only identity comes from being able to SNAP and try and destroy the “goodness” of people like Paw because you folks KNOW in reality you were being led to get off your own lazy azz and do something to make the world a better place but refused to do so… So, in your own guilt, you folks (those this is applicable to) seek to destroy a person who did what he was suppose to do because you were too weak to do anything but complain about him. This destruction gave you "power" – my question is – who ya working” for? I do not think GS has jumped the shark. But I do think Paw is entitled to have a life. (Change your phone number Paw.) And I do think those who have enamored his destruction, bashed his attempts and sabotaged him, need to look in the mirror. What drives this behavior? “Is this written to me?” Well, if the shoe fits wear it. If not, then it is not your shoe. And Paw if and when I have been someone who has disrupted your life - please forgive me. I am truly sorry. edited for punctuation

And that was a prime example of why -- if I were Paw --I would be in prison. He is gracious, ministerial, generous and thick skinned enough to survive crap like that --- yet sensitive enough to stay open cause there might be one more person dying for freedom from TWI and the "voice" he has allowed to speak might be heard, digested, and break the bonds placed on the innocent seeking Jesus. HE is the one who has had GRACE under fire and he did it for us. And all the snot nosed people who feel this is “owed to them” stand in the welfare line accepting their hand-out and not offering a finger to earn their keep. I do not always agree with Paw. I have been in "time out" and contacted about some things I have said. It jolted me. Made me gasp, gulp and get angry. Just as I have with many a boss I have had. But there is a respect level that needs to be followed. It is just a social norm if nothing else. And yet here, all ethical, social and acceptable behavior is forsaken and all the anguish, anger and unresolved feelings seem to spill forth on to Paw -- as if he is some kind of masochistic therapist. He is not. He is one of us who has generously stepped up to the plate in LOVE not ego to offer us a place to visit and heal and if Rhino or Ex, or even myself -- does not like it then we should leave. But to ridicule and snap at this man is unfair, unsightly and uncalled for. Again Paw, I salute you. And if you people like REFINER so much -- don't let the door hit you in the AZZ on the way out. Go there.

Paw I have watched you been trashed, smashed and hashed and you just kept giving "here". I could have never done what you do as I would be inclined to drive to their homes and kick some azz. You have been forgiving, patient, generous and kind. I wonder each year how does he do THIS? I would hate to see this bite the dusty trail. IS there anyone who has the patience to do this? Evan? If you must go, I would want you to know, your efforts has changed my life and given me GOD back in an unalterated way. I am analytical so the "forget it and move on stuff" never works for me. I must see the trick, I must understand "why" and you provided that here with the "truth knowers" whom has spoken up. You have reunited me with old friends. You have allowed me to "fall apart" when my life was eaten by turmiol and you always did the best you could do. You have dealt with drunks, punks, nuts, meanies, the abused, the abusers, those desiring to be free and those that will not be free. You have done it here, you have done it well and allowed God to release us. I am thankful. I hope you stay. If not, I wish you the best in life. You allowed me to grow and be rid of bondage that would have haunted me unto death. You have a ministry and you have ministered here to (us) me. Thank you.

Shaz and Twinky I feel you. I am blind. My weakness, like Samson, was that I did not feel loved. So, when someone said it – I bought it. Look what a dumb azz he was – you would think after the chick did EXACTLY what he said would strip him of his power he could have gotten a clue – that she was there to strip his power. Then, VEXED he decides to tell her the truth – the area that will open him up to such pain, kill his “ministry” and defeat him. He opened up with the deep “inner core” stuff to a person who did not LOVE nor did she have his best interest at heart. She was, literally, sent by the enemy. In my life... Those very men are the ones I choose. Even though God sends RED flags, I feel that maybe "I" am being too judgmental. Even though the signs are screaming at me, I go deaf and blind, for the hope that maybe this time…. I had to examine my life, which is the suggestion of Notta here in this thread. My Father was emotionally unavailable, a task master, demanded his way or the highway – and I was thrown out of the house as a teen—still searching for a family I was ripe pickens for They Way. (We all have our stories - this is mine) In order for me to believe as a child, “all is well”, I had to dismiss CLEAR signs and LOUD bells. I could not handle what was going on around me – so apparently, I invented a “different way” to view the horror show. I went on an excavation trip to find the “good” and I did cling to that. But, I did so, at the expense of the truth and "protecting" myself from the bad. So, the vein popping screaming, the punches, the silence and the fear became inconsequential because I knew my Dad loved me. He went to work everyday to provide for us. He spanked me when I got a low “grade” as he wanted the best for me. He screamed me into constant fear to motivate me to stay away from the bad things in life – because he “loved” me. I was set up to accept the “lie” as the truth. The words were all important and if the action did not line up – well "people are people" and we need to give them a break. But the “break” I gave “them” broke me. When the Bible speaks of false prophets and teachers, I always looked at it as “Biblical” but there are MANY false teachers out there & we accept their edicts and doctrines. My Dad, did not mean to be, but he was a false teacher. His lectures and his guidance were that girls were “nothing” and someday I would be married and cook/clean/reproduce and that was my one and only purpose. No emotion need be offered, no listening was ever available, no conversations … Just screaming, yelling, beating and striping me of the innate gifts I knew I had. “You are nothing, you will never be anything.” THESE are FALSE teachers and “teachings” that we subscribe to as kids because our parents are the “god” figures. Is it any wonder people fall for the “crap” dished out by the “spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend”. We (to those what I just stated applies) have heard it and lived for long periods of life preparing us to accept it our whole lives. So, when a man tells me I am “THE” one and he waited “his whole life”. I can relate to that because I have waited my whole life. "Gee, maybe finally it is here." I am learning.... The only protection we have is God. (and the people with a lick of sense he provided, and the lick of sense he gave us when we heed it) I know I need to run the “actions” done to me through the God barometer of “love” because frankly how in the H do I know what love is? And because this false teaching and “wrong” way I have lived is engrained in me, I choose the same emotionally unavailable people over and over again. I am a toxin to myself. I poison my own decisions because I accept the “ground work” laid in me as “truth.” Obviously, I need to work on a new truth – or recognition of the real truth. And the same biting way I fought for bad “partners” and defended them because they did ONE nice thing that helped me – we have people on Greasespot still defending VPW because he did a couple nice/good things that helped them. This is all part of the bait to get people to accept the mountain of BAD because they cannot rationalize away the “bit of good” provided to them in a con game to lure you into accepting mistreatment as “status quo” Just my opinion about me, some of us, and some of our lives…

BTW For the record, I am not a slut and I never had sex with the man I dated.

What she did was wrong and part of the reason she had a breakdown -- when she saw what she had done. But, I wanted to focus on the people out there trying to cause these kinds of problems. Should she have taken the bait --- heck no. She knows that now, she and the hubs have gotten through all of this and the hubs is a great guy and she still quivers in guilt at her "sin" But the focus is that there are people out there whose goal is to cause this kind of horror in a marriage or a life. And it behooves me to figure out what motivates them. Did the target do something she regrets -- oh yes. Deeply and horribly. But it is like being set- up and not understanding the motive. To rob a bank, or do something like that the motive is apparent. But what do these people get out of this? The joy of destroying people? I do not know. I do not, neither does she argue her guilt and wrongness...

In the link I posted Shel, it talked about how the person would be setting up the next victim while still with the other person. Funny, but HE (the guy I was involved with) had some stuff I wanted to hear (he teaches) -- he had to get it back from a woman he loaned it to -- then, I said are you involved with her? "No, but if there was not an "us" I would be interested." There was only an "us" for a few weeks.... So, what was he saying? Especially, as he had taken her under his wing for MONTHS prior to me. Then, when he was backing out of all his promises to me he said, "Hey are you finished with those CD's?" I knew he was fixated on this other gal he was "mentoring"..... hmmmmm I said, "You gave them to me." I was not going to provide them for the next chick -- let him buy them all over again. On and on and on it went. Took me some time to shake this out and really look at it... And that poor gal in the story I told... All these years later she still asks "Why?"

Gee Oak I dunno, but in a court of law it would seem she was wrong and got what she deserved, eh? But I really do not want to go there, Oak kay? (that was cute, huh? Oak kay? :) )

Have you ever dated this guy/gal? I have The emotional confusion, the betrayal, the burned understanding of trust -- all very destructive http://withoutempathy.blogspot.com/2006/02...ic-partner.html Thank God that our God loves us with a genuine heart felt love!!! And as we go to him FIRST then to others we can run our future relationships through his filter first. I remember thinking WOW this person has EVERYTHING in common with me -- until I realized he asked me everything about me FIRST then tailored his "interests" according to what he knew of me. He made heavy promises too early in the friendship and did not keep one of them. At one point, he told me he feels nothing for people -- only his sons and "possibly" me. Red flags everywhere. I dissmissed them for the taste of the candy coated lies I longed to be true. "I love you. I waited for you - forever" The saddest story I EVER heard was this one and I got permission to share it. A married woman went to work an additional part-time job to earn extra for her family. Her husband was a nice guy. He could have been more attentive but a good guy. At this new job she met a guy who was crazy about her. She rebuked him. He took out a page in the newspaper declaring his love for this woman. He showered her with affection. She debunked it. But coming out of an abused childhood she longed to hear things that all women would like to hear, “You are the love of my life. I have waited for you my entire life. I am crazy about you…” And the like… One day she thought, “Maybe this is it. Maybe this is my soul-mate and my average repetitious life is something I settled for….” She and this man spoke of her divorcing and getting married to one another. And this woman planned to leave her husband after her son graduated. They began to dream and planned to build a life together. The man continued in a high level pursuit of all the things a woman dreams a man will do, see in her and say….” One day, they get together and in hot passion and made love that rivaled all stories ever written on the subject… And when their lovemaking was through… This man, zipped up his pants and said, “I cannot be with an adulterer…” Then, he left and never talked with her again. She had a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized…. Before the judgmental people jump on their bandwagon of how she should have not been deceived let me ask you--- weren’t you in a cult? Deceived as well? This sociopath ate her for dinner… And 15 years later she still ponders why would someone ever do something like that? Because he could? To be a serial killer of the heart? For sport? Why? What motivates someone to pull the wings off a fly? To torment, to be a dream weaver just to pull the rug out so they can hear the “splat” of the person falling?

http://www.freedomfromtithing.info/how_i_q...out_of_debt.pdf

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Reflection...ctives.htm#cult

Nick Jonas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcpq8L6KHAU Ellie Campell - Don't Want You Back

More on arranged marriage http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/10165.html

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Happy Birthday!