Dot Matrix

Amen Raf!!! I have got to wonder. For someone to try to make abusive sex okay, and to not accept it as abuse -- makes me ponder -- Is this crazy thinking a bi-product trauma? Is this ALL about something that person cannot face? Because this is just not RIGHT thinking. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Great Post WW!!!! Mike said I was in hell, will you let him know I am here with his Father in the Word and he is very proud of Mike. Up on High --- Hahahahahaha :D--> Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Would rape be considered a test to people who think like that? Would a person of that ilk test children? I had an atty friend of mine review some posts on this thread and others made these past months. I thought a certain poster may need help that is beyond the scope of what this site may offer, or to be ignored, or asked to leave. (Of course it is just opinion based on a slice of life shown on this site, but) She wonders if he may be a threat to himself or others. The key is he offers an opinion as the FINAL WORD. Does not consider others. The line between right and wrong was defined FOR him by a cult leader. He does not see unwanted sexual touching as wrong but as a test that ultimately "helps" the person violated.... DO NOT POST YOUR ADDRESSES. I have a behavior scientist looking at it today - I am curious and a little cautious. (Of course, I do this in extreme heat as I am doing it from helI) Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

I mean it, the man is NOT wired right. I don't know HOW he can keep a job.... Here is how I see his twig getting messages from Weirwille posthumously If it were not so sad it would be funny. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Hahahahahah :D--> Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Ex (Here is my opinion) Did you read what "mental Ward" wrote to you: So, Mike found some ministry behaviors intolerable because he had false cultural training. Not because we all have a built in moral compass, but because he was trained to feel these violations were intolerable. Apparently, he wants to retrain you/us in your perspective of how Harry touched you. (IMO)I think Mike was VPW's lab rat. He retrained him with rewards such as ministry books and rides on the motorcycle. When he was BAD he was not allowed to be near Moggie. So, soon VPW had a clone. He groomed another sickie. And this sickie thinks that if we all view human touch in a new light, the grabbing of your breast would be like that of your shoulder. Only I will not understand this new lofty thinking because I am high on a horse... He does not know we heard it all before from VPW, on shows about sexual perversion, on Dr. Phil when he interviewed a pedophile.... These are not new concepts that are unable to reach people on horses, but rather OLD concepts scripted by the devil who has been taking over the weak-minded so they could hurt and victimize others. For their sake, I hope to God there are no children around anyone who thinks in this manner. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 22, 2003 at 0:06.]

Sunesis- Amen! (IMO, due to his posts) If Mike did get d*cked by Doc he would not consider it "off the word" it would be an honor. Not really adultery -- Just like two good old boys shaking hands. Or a pat on the shoulder... He'd be a blast in prison, "no no, I don't mind. I will drop the soap so you can do it. After all its just like a pat on the back." He'd be popular there. Maybe that is where he can be well received. Hold on, I need to climb off my high horse and see if I feel the same way.... I am on the ground; Mike is still INSANE. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 21, 2003 at 23:45.]

Steve- Try it! I think we all have had enough of Mike, I feel like I just went potty and flushed a "Mike". Why it does feel good. (But feelings are not guaren.... oh I do not have to listen to that anymore, I just flushed that voice ---glub glub glub) [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 22, 2003 at 0:02.]

I love you VL!!!! I am so sick of that---- "Bowler" I could puke. What do we have to do to get that crazy bast**d to go away and start his own - I love VPW site. The good news is that anyone still in, can see how crazy one can become by worshiping a MAN. Krys Thanks! Sick of that man. Tex - we are cool. White Dove - we are good. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 22, 2003 at 0:04.]

Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 21, 2003 at 22:55.]

Mike I did not understand this crap: Your respose: I would rather BE WRONG in your EYES by KNOWING VPW was a sexual pervert, rapist criminal deceiver than look good to you. I am perverse, you want perverse - I sure wish VPW had it for men and went after you because I think you would have enjoyed s--king his c--k. Because you have Proven time and time again to be a c--k s--ker here. Enjoy your life you phocking Wierwille sick phocking wannabe -- you belong in a phocking mental institution. You are a jerk, a know it all piece of crap, DO NOT EVER address me again and I will not you either. Or maybe you are in your nut house typing away to people here trying to sell your bulls--t. Go sell crazy some where else -- we are all filled up here and looking for healing You sick phock!!! You are probably the BEST example of mental illness and what staying in TWI has done to what used to be a human being. You wash cloth sapping up Weirwille's left overs... You are not even your own person... (IMO) You are a puppet - a nothing, empty, mean-spirited a$$hole. I will NOT ask God for forgiveness for how I feel about a criminal. Yes, your GOD "VPW" is a criminal but because apparently you are insane you will NEVER see it. (IMO) You are an empty headed mental patient, as angry as I am at your stupidity, I still hope you get delivered. Because only one sick moth-r could write what you wrote. I bet you are so lonely in your mental illness... So, you come here and expect us to join you. Screw off, you Weirwille worshipping devil spirit. Go away! So, according to you touching an elbow or a vagina is the same? I bet your fun in bed.. Maybe you need CF&S from your sick hero to remind you what your parts are-- take your sexually sick twisted thinking that resembles JAILED perverts and get help. We do not want VPW or you. Get Lost, Stop comming here, go away. There is a roof on a tall building calling your name.... You said: "Your use of profanity only proves to me that you are in a prison constructed by the devil and his world culture. It is very persuasive, but in the wrong direction. It?s no better than a two year old?s temper tantrums. Grow UP! " Don't be offended because according to you if I call you a C--k S---ker it is the same thing as calling you an elbow toucher... And a phocker is the same as calling you a bowler... In your world it is all the same.... enjoy... Or maybe you need to grow up to understand how demented your logic is.... You elbow touching bowler! Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 21, 2003 at 23:59.]

krysilis Love you! I hear you sister! You know, you wish the corps told you some of the stuff? Well, I had a cute little girlfriend from the college division in San Diego. What a positive burst of sunshine! Well, I had gone through he ll with all the sex stuff. Even though I said NO to VPW, certain male leaders called me "one of VP's girls" I found it offensive but I also think some of them stayed away because they heard that.... I dunno... Maybe it made some MORE bold... Anyway, this precious believer was starting to question some "foul odors" she caught in TWI. She came to me and said, "Do you know that our leader has convinced people it is an honor to live with him and is making the believers pay all the rent and bills and he and his family live for free? That is using people!" After she noticed a few more "bad" things. I told her. I told her the truth about the lies and deception. Well, she lost her mind and called the area leader and told him what I said and that I should be stopped!!! I had the flu that day and my branch leader knocked on the door and said you need to come with me immediately, to see __ ___. Whose name rhymes with Hat Now. When I went in to see him he yelled alright, "Why would you tell a DITZ believer like _________ about what goes on behind close doors? You have a lock box problem and you will NEVER be anything if you do not learn to shut up!!!!!" So, this was the last I saw him. Final straw. I went back to the little "ditz" and told her by the way, I was called into a meeting. All they told me was you cannot handle what is going on in the Way. What I told you was true. So, your corps may have been afraid to tell you for the reasons I just outlined. They may have REALLY wanted to tell you. It was all so sick! So, yeah let's all talk about the virtue in his "sex" class.... NOT Valerie52 Amen to you and Geoy! Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Mike What the PHOCK are you talking about? That is the same m-th-r phocking crap those perverts used on us. In the corps, I sat in a sunday night service with a guy who reached over during the teaching and began to FEEL my breast. I threw his hand off of me. Later, he went into there really is no difference between touching an elbow or a breast it is all in how we see it.... He learned that from VPW. (That is such a typical sexual predator thing to say to young kids to be able to fondle them.) I told the M-th-r Phocker if he could not see the difference then next time grab my elbow!!!! Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 21, 2003 at 11:35.]

Plots AMEN!!!!! WOW MJ Ya know the largeness of that just hit me when you wrote it. He did not choose a protitute or someone who had been around the block or any of it..... Something to think about... Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Tex WD did not JUST stick to the facts and report them, as may have been his intent. He said: That is not saying, "hey guys I just checked my notes and this is what was said...." Its flavor is accusatory and judgmental. And this It presupposes that because people on the thread were not upholding the integrity of the class that we would be accountable to God. Or that OUR word might hurt the readers. I do not agree. I still contend there was NO integrity to the class except for some sound bites to hide a sexual pervert and let him masquerade as a "nice family man" and I believe by expressing our opinions, which lay contrary to his, we are not INFLUENCING OTHERS WRONGLY. Some people were just talking. This comment Sounded as though any talk contrary to the syllabus written words HE had were some how producing "lack of concern" for readers and because we spoke badly of VPW we would be accountable to God for it. Well, all I am saying is I AM WILLING to accept all accountability for exposing a sexual pervert. I am PROUD to be accountable for that. I think it is time "the wicked Uncle Ernie" stops fiddling about in our hearts and lives even if it is post mortem. I hope people DO understand how deep the foundation of LIES and perversion goes and what kind of slap in the face, to the world of integrity, it is for a man who is seducing young girls looking for God, who sexually may have drugged girls to use them and who lived an adulterous life, TO TEACH a CLASS on CHRISTIAN FAMILY and SEX is ludicrous. But until people can really see we were in a cult, lead by a lunatic they will be in some form of bondage to Dr. Demento. That is MY position. I do not have to feign allegiance anymore to a sexual criminal. I am not afraid to speak up. I know I will not be a grease spot but rather I will be FREE. LCM and VPW were horrible mean-spirited people that used us. If you had some GOOD corps that protected you then praise God for them. Or you might be responding to WD about how LCM or VPW seduced your daughter or your wife. Then you would feel how personal the EVIL was. We would see how passionate you become. Easy to be a spectator if you were never thrown in the game. So, you can feel want you want, but if you people want to VALIDATE a sex pervert and his cover class, this will be my position. Like it or not, like me or not, I do not care. Silence is gone-- lock box open. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Ex Private t Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Now, I see why you were posting the "actual class" Fried Dove, usually if people are talking and someone says "He said the vagina is ugly" and you do not see that in your notes, then just say so. It was the other things I addressed that just seemed accusatory. If you had said "Hey, I ran and got the syllabus and I do not see that written anywhere." The response may have been something like, "Oh, I thought he said it maybe it was someone in the class" and it would have been over. It just came across like you were trying to push the integrity of the class on the posters and many of us feel VPW has no integrity, therefore the class would be fruit of the posion tree. You entered the thread from a place I do not think people recognized. I know I did not see you as trying to verbatum say what was in the class. As I said, it appeared you were trying to push its intergrity. Then, it seemed like you put people down for talking. This wasn't a group of people wanting to TAKE the class, we were talking as if we were all sitting around the living room. (((((White Dove))))) If you meant things the way they sounded then I am sorry but being on the menu is where you belonged. But you didn't mean it like that. I do not think anyone KNEW where you were coming from. And we weren't coming from the same place. So, I will make sure you are not on the menu and hopefully you were not in the oven too long. This reminds me of an episode of Frasier. He is always "so exact" so black and white "This means that" "dealing only in facts" that sometimes when others are just talking he misses it. By the same token, sometimes Roz is yacking away, getting out in left field and Fraiser will have to remind her what she was talking about. So, the Roz in me wants the Fraiser in you to know I NOW think you meant no harm to anybody. (((((Fraiser)))))) Fraiser there will be no dove on the menu tonight. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Sorry White Dove, we were having fun with some things, maybe some things were not exactly right. But we were having fun not trying to reconstruct the class. If that is what Rottie wanted I did not pick up on that. So, I think we stepped on your toes and what you were trying to say here BUT you did not see that we were having a good time. We don't have his syllabuses around, most of us burned it. A lot of us have been HURT by the idiot pretending to be a MOG, and you came across like you were reproving us or something... I dunno.... If you want to speak of it doctrinally maybe down there in the doctrinal area. I think most of us were not expecting that -- Although it is open for ALL opinions. Just seemed like you were rallying behind a sexual pervert who tried to teach us about sex. You were concerned about the readers ? so you wrote the nice things VPW said in the class, when many of us were approached, seduced or forced into things by this guy! I am not going to report the WORDS of the class accurately because THEY are deceptive. They mask ? they hide? They make a wicked man seem like a nice family guy trying to help his followers. I think your words were more damaging, but I do understand that was NOT your internet. You were just trying to capture the WORDS in the class. But we were ?capturing? the teacher. I would rather people read what we said, honestly. Than the lies he said. His lies make him believable and we know he was diddling everything he could behind the camera. ((((White Dove))))) Joniam ? My God. You are a brave guy. God loves you and thanks for your courage to share Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Ex I came back (PT) WD apologized on the thread and I want to acknowledge it. It was kind of him to reach out and do that! Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

No because if you tell a joke or say something about VPW -- IT is still a sin to some people. We should be able to talk and laugh -- We spent our lives in a cult ran by a pervert--- If you can't laugh then lets just all die of a broken heart!!! Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

PS But WD, NOW I see that you were just trying to present "the class" like the words in the class, the material. I think a lot of us were talking PAST the words and having fun with it. It is good to laugh at the crap sometimes. Scammie, your posts were funny. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Rottie said "So what was the Christian Family and Sex class about?" That is NOT asking what was IN the class. It was asking what is was about. It was about a pervert who dressed up his perversion with a few sound bites and dumped it on the members of his cult -- US! Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Okay, I read White Dove's post and you did hurt me. I accept your apology. So, I am back! Your view point on Weirwille seems to still be that of respect or wishing there was something to respect. We have all been there and some are still there. I do not think this is about respect in Weirwille as much as we try to find something "nice" about his life so WE do not have to feel so dam n stupid. If I believe TWI was OKAY then went bad, I feel better about me.... Then, I was not REALLY deceived, I got into a GOOD ministry and it went bad. To recognize VPW was a sexaul pervert who took us all for a ride --- means you have to deal with yourself/myself/ourselves in understanding we WERE THAT tricked!!! That deceived!!!! That taken advantage of!!! To say VPW taught some good Bible is like saying John Wayne Gacey wasn't all bad because he could paint. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Ex PT Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Rick Thanks for having a sense of humor! Rottie, I am sorry because I am going to have a brief derail then I will leave so I will not mess it up. White dove White Dove: "My question is this I guess if everything was so wrong, if everything was so pointless, if everything was so evil. Then why the hell did they stay around so long ?" Dot's response: That is a fair question and things we have all discussed here for years. I/we have been over this many times. You are welcome to read some other threads and to understand how others feel about that question. There are threads on the condemnation they heaped on you when you considered leaving. Some stayed because of fear because they were afraid they would die if they left. ( All that talk of being a Grease Spot by midnight...) There were many reasons. Mine, personally, was a few reasons, the biggest was I could not reconcile the deliverance from PFAL with the bad man who taught it. I thought I could change things. I confronted Weirwille. But these are all things we have talked about for years. Threads about Why did you stay? Did you think you could change things. It is a confluence of things. Why did you stay? Why did you leave? White Dove: ?It's not about sympathy it is simply giving credit where it is due, and speaking up where it is not. But there are many people who just want to be angry and therefore see everything as bad and because of that they don't care if what they say is true or not.? Dot's response: Maybe while they were taking the class they could not hear the pretense of ?love? your wife because they already knew of the opposite secret policy TWI?s leaders promoted. I dunno, but I am not going to be hard on them because they did not see VPW as a loving man of God teaching them how to love a woman. That has proven to be a farce. http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/ltr_marsha.htm White Dove: "Why only when you get scr*w*d over does everything become bad that was just fine before?" Dot's response: I can only answer for myself and not for anyone else as you can only answer from the warehouse of your experiences. It was NEVER just fine before. In the beginning, on a planet far far away there was twig fellowship run by beautiful people. These people took a class that BG Leonard put together but was shown to them by VPW who claimed it was his class. The fellowship I attended, I give credit to God, to BG Leonard, to Eddie Fisher and Joe Guarini for the good. WHEN I got to know VPW it all turned to ..... There was never a good time with him. Perhaps you had some good times praise God life with TWI was good for you. White dove: "I just don't see the profit in being unkind just because you can." Dot's response: I do not consider myself unkind, I consider myself honest. I have NO respect for VPW and I am entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. Welcome to freedom. I FIRMLY believe he is not a MOG. He was not the MOG for the world; he wasn't even a good farm boy minister and I stand before God accountable for my opinion. I do not regret having that opinion and it will not change. If you enjoyed certain times and teachings of VPW, fine, you can even start a thread on it and will get some supportive posts. But I am here to express my opinions BEFORE GOD and I do not have a problem with the way I feel or in saying it. You are welcome to just skip over my posts. I HOPE people out there are reading my opinion and other people's opinions and form their own truth. I do not retract nor regret anything I said, nor do I apologize for my humor. Again, if there are people that do not like my posts then don't read them. I am not going to CHANGE because it might offend someone about VPW or Craig. The days of being afraid of them or stating what I really think of them is over. WE just have different views on him. That is okay. You can think what you want I am sure my negative experiences will not change your positive ones. You seem to have a "don't throw the baby out with the bath water" attitude with your Melanie analogy. Many do. You remember a kinder and gentler Weirwille. I do not think that man EVER existed. But you do. Keep your memories. I do not have THOSE memories. I think Rosemary's baby was in the bath water and frankly I hope they both go down the drain. Welcome to America. We don?t have to be ?like-minded?. You seem like a very nice, funny, warm person. If in your life VPW had many positive influences then I am glad you can have that kind of a memory. My memory is of a fat old naked man who called me in the coach and tried to manipulate me into performing acts on him. I declined. So, then it was his duty to ?watch me? because I was then bad corps. (to discredit me and ruin my life) I stuck around. I confronted him. I even went to him with the Bible to show him these many, many, many acts were lewd and against the word of God (talk to an old trunk leader). VP would not consider his actions were wrong. I spend years stuffing his .... into a lock box. Well honey the lock is off. You can glom onto the good. You can drink the bath water if you choose and that is okay for you. As I said, I was happy worshiping God until I got to know VPW and his corps. There are many fans of VP around. That is fine. There are many who hold to a sliver of good about the man. EVERYONE has their opinion. But I will not add a soft touch when I refer to him and if that offends you, skip my posts. Think what you want. You think I am angry? Could be. Or maybe I am past it and have come to terms with the fact that I was in a cult just like a Jim Jones or a David Koresh cult. I was no better than all those people who got tricked. I was not into something good that went bad, I was involved in something that was bad and I was ?too naive? to see it. I am not naive anymore. If you wish to carry this further please private topic me. I don?t want to ruin Rottie?s thread further. Sorry Rottie, I am leaving this thread so I do not derail it any further. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 20, 2003 at 22:54.]