Dot Matrix

Shaz: The list that describes a narcissist you posted: N RED FLAGS 1.) He talks a lot about his pedigree, his possessions, his education, his awards, his associations, or who he knows, as if THEY are who HE is. 2.) He lies or exaggerates any of the above. 3.) He puts you on a pedestal when he hardly knows you, or exaggerates who you are to others. 4.) He pushes for a commitment from you early in the relationship, and seems to be constantly raising the level of commitment required. 5.) He tries to change your behavior or appearance, often under the guise of caring about you. 6.) He tries to commandeer your time and attention. He is jealous of your friends or other interests. He isolates you. 7.) He uses "everyone is out to get me" statements. 8.) He requires you to live by different rules than he lives by himself. 9.) He doesn't listen to you, or pretends not to understand clear statements from you. 10.) He does not accept responsibility for his actions. It is never his fault. 11.) He overreacts in anger to minor irritations. 12.) He has trouble playing by the rules. He is always the exception. 13.) He thinks he is always right; he has the truth. Yes, I can see inserting Mike's name as well as VP's on many of them. I agree. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Zix Private Topic Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

I think VP referred to these WEIRDO story lines in the Bible to lube us into accepting his sinister stuff. There are some things in the Bible I do not get and frankly those examples are two for me. He may have covered both accounts that day, for me stuff was running together into "this nut is all about getting girls to take their pants off." But I only recall the ONE account and that that act (the two daughters) was ultimately leading to the Christ line. Thanks for the accounts. I am going to read them without his influence. ___________________ I am back, ya know I never heard the Tamar account. And that was NOT incest as it was a father-in-law. No, I would almost swear he used the drinking and incest account to validate "drinking" and "incest" being part of the Christ line. So, he was wrong. Thanks for sharing the accounts with me, it makes things more clear. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 24, 2003 at 13:51.]

Jerry Thanks for the compliment! You said: "I accepted the "angel in the kitchen devil in the bedroom" maxim, partly because I like the sound of it.... " That is so honest. I think a lot of what allured men was TWI was like being part of the Hefner mansion except it had God's approval!!! :)--> And Jerry you said: "This is especially confusing because one of the things he taught from I Corinthians 7 was that it's wrong to touch a woman because women are aroused by touch. You can arouse a woman with a backrub. (I've done this by accident; it was kind of fun.) So the mixed messages in the class about touch may be due to the conflicting motives of presenting a class that would maintain relative decency at the twig level while preparing people for debauchery at the root level. " That was VERY well stated!!! That was the CF&Sclass! Zix Wow. There are so many tribes in Africa maybe one had a woman do it and another a Dad. I have also heard of tribes where they ram sticks into the daughter to break her hymen. Once VP covered the part in the Bible where those two daughters had sex with their father to carry on the Christ line. Saying it was ultimately God's will. Can't think of the reference right now, but they got Dad drunk and seduced him. I never went over it by myself to see if the Christ line did come from it. By then I was so digusted! Weirwille sought things to validate his position. He did NOT research the word and change his opinion to IT. I becamed pretty good friends with Jim Dopp. He told me that he, Jim, had a ministry where they were sexually loose and an anything goes kinda group out in California. Weirwille flew out there, telling folks it was to talk with Jim about the Bible and witness or something to him. Jim told me Weirwille flew out there to LEARN from Jimmy about the free sex thinking. Weirwille said he always believed sex should be free and allowed with as many as you feel you want to be with -- but could NEVER proove it from the Bible. He was there to see if Jimmy could proove it was okay via scripture. Dopp never really could and was more of a hippie minister than a sexual pervert looking for Biblical validation. Weirwille had these concepts, notions, urges, illnesses and tried to find a way to SELL them to us. He was not about to CHANGE his thinking according to scripture. He was not a researcher. He was similar to a lot of cult leaders. He had an idea and looked for people who would buy into it. Like Charlie Manson. Praise God Weirwille got to MIKE before someone like Manson did. I would like to take a moment to validate Ex's story that the Weirwille brothers were into the sex stuff. Both of them. I worked at Limb HQS. and a staffer went to HQS. We were all so excited to hear about this WONDERFUL place!!! (I was still an "A" believer, to use my previous analogy.) Well, the staffer came back and told us alright. She said she met Uncle Harry and she gave him a bless kiss. Uncle Harry grabbed her and gave her a french kiss and touched her breasts. Out in the open, too. They were not in a closed room environment. She was upset about it. Our 3rd corps limb leader's wife then said, "he only did it to make her feel like a woman. He was blessing her." Later, I found out those leaders were also promoters of the "inner-circle" sex stuff. I should have considered the reported french kiss and free feel more than I did. It BOTHERED me but again, PFAL delivered me so the ministry had to be of God!!!! I never considered the class to have been stolen!!! Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 24, 2003 at 13:54.]

Joniam While I read your post I was thinking I bet he saw me. IT was so HEAVY to carry around.... I wonder if it was me. Or one of my "enlightened" friends. Then, I read the line where you said IT COULD BE YOU!!! Funny, I had a dear guy friend in the 13th corps. He was so cute he looked like Rob Lowe. We were very close friends. He was hit on by some of the "inner circle" girls. One girl unbuttoned her blouse and told him she wanted to bless him; a MOG. He buttoned her blouse back up and declined the offer. He was SO good looking he had women hit on him out in the world all the time - bars, bowling alley's etc. IT was a turn-off. He liked women who were not loose, who were confident and intelligent. After this happened, to him a couple times, it was weighing on him heavily and he was praying while sitting under a tree. Someone reported him for "not smiling". These people who were sold out to the inner circle walked around with plastered smiles and ready genitals/taila. They were "leadership material". My great-looking, smart, unwilling to screw around and use women friend, who was ONLY there because he LOVED GOD, was thrown out because he did not have the right attitude. I bet one of MOGGIE'S playthings reported him. You are correct even in marriage there is appropriate/courteous touching. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Tom Hahahahaha Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Don't be sorry I am not saying you or Ginger messed up anything. The whole thread has been weird- I think I fought with everybody-- that is all I meant! Seems like everyone fought with everyone.... Must be sexual frustration.. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Well, this thread has been fun, huh? :D--> --> :D--> I know I have had a good time!!! (tongue in cheek) ;)--> Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

"You know, I've never really said anything (I don't think) cause I didn't want to be impolite. But yeah, he was one ugly fothermucker. " LMAO Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Zix Come here, I have a little something for you! Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Ginger wrote me a kind note checking on me when the "sex" stuff hit too close to home. I was injured and she went out of her way to check on me. Thanks Ginger. Everyone needs a little Ginger Tea! Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Zix I surely do love you and look forward to your posts. I thought you were trying to be funny and failed. ( I have experience at that..thinking I am being funny and failing) Did you mean to hurt Ginger? I do not see that in you. But you did. You better go apologize it is not like you to hurt people. I am sorry Ginger, you have tried to be helpful. I am sorry you were hurt. I have a tender kiss for you and your heart! (I have gained a little weight in this picture but the kiss is kind) Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Thanks Shaz and Scammie Word Wolf -- That was too funny about the wolf thing :D--> Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Exousia said No, he was not attractive. Imagine my surprise when a naked old fat man sat before me naked in the coach thinking that would be a turn on! But some girls like power and they felt "special". Some girls said "NO" like I think Sunesis and I did. Some girls were frozen in fear and shock (they were little teenagers) and some were given drinks and others drinks with drugs in them. He took it anyway he could get it. He was a serial rapist. (IMO) Thanks for your love. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Tex I know how you felt "From his posts, Mike just seemed like a misguided soul, seriously adrift a sinking vessel in the uncharted waters of Way World. Having some sympathy for the mentally ill and mentally challenged, compassion seemed the more appropriate response to his rantings." I kept trying to be nice to him or show concern for him for obvious "unbalanced" reasons People were yelling "Get Help" "You are sick" I asked him if VPW hurt him and maybe he should go talk to someone. He flipped out.... Have you met his side kick (which many of us believe is him) Sea spray? Two things you can count on when the going gets tough he e-mails people to rally support. Back then his supporters had not even READ his posts, but he pushed their sympathy buttons and they would come on and post a little support post (unaware of the context or horrid things he said) He is a button pusher. He pushed some of the gentle hearts for support behind the scenes -- but then here on the forum he goes after people with maliciousness. He will come on the forum and say how much support he has behind the scenes -- how people contact him and support his work.... Perhaps they listened the first three times but most people catch on to the "craziness" by then and back off. So, first he will e-mail the tender hearted people for support (but I think they have caught on) Then, Sea spray shows up to defend him. He is a professional button pusher. After all, he was groomed by the BEST and has continued to STUDY the master for the past what? 16 years? Most people study criminals, i.e. Jeffrey Dalhmer, Gacey.... to learn how to CATCH them and STOP them. MIKE studies VPW to keep his legacy going, to continue to push the sick doctrines - i.e. sex is cultural and if he touched a woman it was a blessing not adultery. I have to give it to him - he is a master at sniffing out what bothers others. He also has pegged whom to go to for sympathy and tries to hide behind the sweetest people. (He has lost some of them because they caught on) Your new hasn't he tried to contact you and get you in his support stable? He will size you up quickly and use it for pain. I have never seen a more unwelcomed person stick around so long. It is like an unwanted dinner guest who will just not go home. When he began to say the supportive things for "sex with believers" being our cultural problem and going through the Bible for support I felt like I was talking to VPW again on the coach. Or those "inner circle" people who held fast to the teachings of the master..... There was no difference between touching an elbow or a breast -- It is your thinking of it. When I laid out some word to VPW on adultery his response was "What so ever things are pure...think on those things" He said it was MY THINKING evil is what made it evil. He also told a small group at Emporia one night to teach their children about their bodies, "you can brush their nipple with your hand and show them how it hardens. You can show them not to be ashamed of their body reactions" Then he shared about the African Tribe where the Father broke the hymen of the daughters to get them experienced in sex to prepare them for marriage -- he thought it to be beautiful. VPW had already let me see his dark side. Sitting there I thought OH MY GOD, this is subtle but he is teaching this group that it is beautiful to teach your daughters how to have sex, it is just not accepted in our culture! He was standing behind his sex problems and setting us up to have sex with our godly "family" as well as the earthly one. I have not heard it so pure and so believed until Mike started to spew those theories all over again. PS Those of you who wish you confronted VPW about his sex policies? The things Mike said on this thread would have been what VPW would have said to you -- then you would have realized what made VPW tick, you would have been shocked as you were here. If you have seen the MIKE you have seen the Weirwille. By the way, you are a great arm chair General!!!! smirk! Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Ex You said: You are probably right, sometimes I wondered what made VPW think the way he did -- before he lost his conscience. (IMO) What would bring a man to such a place to do what he did? Childhood trauma? Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 23, 2003 at 8:53.]

Love to all of you!!! Someday, I hope that all the Mike's out there can repent and leave catagory "C" and move over to "B" and muddle through healing like the rest of us. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 22, 2003 at 19:37.]

It is my heart, thank you. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

((((Joniam)))) I can SO relate to your post. PFAL and TWI did help me. If I did not take the class (I credit Leonard for) I would not be alive today. I owe God and Leonard so much! I think a lot of what draws lines here is there seems to be different groups of folks. A. Those that never saw the inner circle and have fond memories of twig because they were removed from TWI and the inner Circle (When they finally heard about it they thought, "so they had affairs with a few people - I can forgive that") B Those that were introduced to or a part of the "inner circle" who were hurt by it, or left it and are sorry for participating in it. ( We knew it was not a few people but hundreds, it was not an affair but a lifestyle of false doctrines and sometimes forced and drugged sex. They drank to excess and smoked weed. Women were around like the days of the Roman Empire, and if Moggie could not have one, it is reported girls were handed drinks with drugs in them) C. Those that were involved or knew about the "inner circle" and still believe it was good and promote the twisted doctrines. (Some of these folks believed in this SO MUCH they became recruiters. Bringing girls to VPW. Drinking with him, closing the door on the coach while Moggie played - sometimes whether the girl was willing or not) I was in group "A" and like you if anyone had said anything bad about VPW or TWI I think I would have kicked their a$$ or at least NEVER believed it. I was so happy in group "A" that I went into the corps and became a part of "B". I wish I never saw the things I saw or heard the things I heard. It killed me, but I was determined to help people know it was NOT their fault that a man would use the Word of God to hurt them.... Then there is "C" . I only know TWO people who are still a part of "C". One is an egotistical woman who got women/girls to go be with VP and did not care how much it hurt them. When these recruits came to her crying in confusion she would then set out to destroy their credibility and lives. She told me, "It was better to sacrifice one to save many." I told her this one girl would kill herself and she said, "Well, then at least she will not be able to speak ill of the ministry. These people "C" -- VPW, LCM, the recruits and recruiters to the inner circle believed what Mike has been saying. That touching a woman can help her feel better about herself. VPW taught one night to a small group in res. how in Africa there was a tribe where the father would break the hymen of their daughters and teach them about sex so they would be experienced for their husbands. Since I have come here we have all come from different view points and bicker over some details. But MIKE is the FIRST person I have seen here who I believe is a category "C". He KNOWS of the mottos and mantras of the INNER CIRCLE and he still believes in the lessons. He still believes VPW made women better by "touching them? or testing them sexually. That unasked for touch was not a violation but a blessing and if VPW did it or said he did it then it was out of a pure heart. He does not see it was done out of a sick, blinded heart of a self-serving nature. HE thinks it is like the tribes in Africa a wonderful expression our culture does not accept. And if we could all just lay culture aside for a moment we TOO would understand. Group "C" is dangerous. They were groomed by a serial rapist/molester and they do not and WILL NOT see it. This inner circle sinned and believed that they lived above the word of God. It was described to me as a higher plane and only people who "could handle it" were invited to partake. Anyone who objected or reproved their behavior was considered someone who "stumbled" at their freedom in their walk with Christ. Therefore, there was no way to correct them; they exalted themselves as gods deciding what was right and what was wrong. (Genesis 3:5). I believe that is who Mike is. I believe you are a tender "A" and I am a tormented "B". I so appreciate your heart. Sometimes when a "B" shares things an "A" has no way to relate to that experience because it was not like that for them. The "B" person has been through so much fighting the inner circle they forget how nice it was when they were an "A". With us our hearts are all similar our experiences are different. With a "C" (Those that were involved or knew about the "inner circle" and still believe it was good and promote the twisted doctrines.) They are not like us. They are the people who killed the ministry and the hearts of many good people with selfish twisted doctrines. I recognize you as my brother. I recognize the people here as family even those who do not believe in anything at the moment. As it stands right now, Mike is not my brother he is a wolf in sheeps clothing taught by the master wolf he has accepted his doctrines (the doctrines of devils) over the doctrines of Love OUR father God gave us. (IMHO) http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/ltr_marsha.htm (Note: Not all corps became "B" or "C" some were lucky enough to remain an "A". The inner circle's goal was to turn us all into a "C") Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 24, 2003 at 19:00.]

White Dove wrote the most heartfelt love note I ever got. We talked back and forth getting the backstory on what we meant by what we said. It was a great time in sharing and getting to know each other. Zix- I am laughing to death here! I think Raf said it best on another site: Jon I am not blaming Mike for a derailment, the thread went where it went and I helped in that. I am suggesting his constant PUSHING pro TWI thinking, perversions and bondage is what we all left. Some folks still hold on to some beliefs some do not. It is all okay. But to promote the perversions and bondage on a X-TWI site (not thread ALL the threadS) is not very welcome. You know the difference. You may have different opinions than I do or Ex does but it is not about promoting bondage or improper sexual touching as a "test". Then, there was the slight detour in the homosexual area. Not what I am talking about. I am speaking of a confluence of TWI promotions. Thanks I just read your post, you get what I am saying. Thanks for your heart and compassion. (((Joniam)))) Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Thanks Zix Amen. I do not know how you and Raf have dealt with this for so long. I kept walking away. But the latest statements he made WERE the whole crux of VPW's beliefs that touching people in a sexual way somehow healed them, set them free. That thinking is what killed TWI and the hearts of MANY women, I could not walk away from this one. I admire your ability to keep debating, but it might be time for me to stop. Trefor- Big thumbs up for you! Scammie - yaeh, boohoo - let's throw a party. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 22, 2003 at 15:12.]

Krys "we keep thinking we can talk sense to him. Give it up! We tried long enough...it ain't gonna happen" GREAT POINT I agree we do not have to play with him. And I agree I do not want Paw bashed and stated so, but I think you were right that Mike is a TROLL. Intended to be one or just so sick it comes naturally. We can stop playing and we can also let Paw know if we think someone is ruining his site. Wayfernot saw this months ago when she tried to get Mike to stop pushing his pro TWi diatribe. Ginger It is not like a TWI M&A. This is a X-TWI site, not a PRO TWI site and although he has been allowed to visit he continues to POUND us with the doctrine we left. He brings the PRO sickness here relentlessly. We have told him to stop. We have said we are not interested. This is beyond the M&A TWI stuff. (In TWI it was a witch hunt and trumped up charges.) There has been people who have bent over backwards to walk Mike away from his cult thinking. He is NOT going to change. He is NOT going to consider their very clear presentations. Raf, Zix, WW, VL, Geoy and others very well versed in scripture have been over and over it. He is NOT here to share in our journey OUT. He is here to push us back into "the cult" whether actually the cult or just their doctrines of bondage and perversion. The threads have always had disagreements. But with Mike it is all about Going back to PFAL and VPW. IT is an OLD message and really not what this site is suppose to reflect. (to my understanding) He keeps trying to herd us into his camp over and over again. Not in talking about things logically or even emotionally but all from "PFAL will help you." This is his feeding ground for his odd ministry (illness) which nobody is interested in. Whoever wants to stop talking to him - like Krys says then let's stop. Whoever thinks he is marring the site with his pro PFAL crap and is sick of it, let Paw know. Whoever wants to talk with him - talk. But I think to those who have had it, we should tell PAW AND ignore him. It is everybody's individual call and their choice. Then, after Paw hears from us he can decide if this is what he wants on the site. Pro Way stuff that may retard healing or not. From what I have heard he is e-mailing people and laughing about the reactions here! He wants to cause PAIN. I do think you have good personal advice to him. But I think he needs to go. I have no power to do that, but that is my opinion (as well as others who have contacted me). If he stays then I think ignoring him is best, but there are some very SICK things presented that are difficult to ignore. Thanks for your post. I do wonder though why he is speaking about a time out and listening to you PRIOR to your post. Have you read the thread? Or did he private topic you and you came on to calm things down? Because he pretty much told EXXIE that Uncle Harry touched her to make her a better person.... A test...Something to break the ego in corps training. (paraphrase) So, no he is not responsible for other people's recations BUT he is responsible for TWISTED thinking that is hurtful and sick. To not respond almost feels like I would be condoning it. Thanks again for speaking to him because it is hands off when it comes to some of this stuff. But you said it better. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 22, 2003 at 15:10.]

"At this point it is like we are feeding a troll who is getting off on this. It is time we pulled the plug!" Good Point, but I think a bigger plug should be pulled. I think Paw may want to get him off of here. Banned. Enough is enough. I think he is dangerous and OBVIOUSLY sent here to ruin any fellowship we have. For him to continue to come here is a kin to allowing a pedaphile post on a "girl/boy scout" forum. He needs help and we do not need to be part of what feeds his internal "monsters". Do we all send Paw a note? Paw has a hard job and if we feel this way let him know. Then it is NOT his decision (where he gets bashed) but as a group we have spoken up. Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

Mj Good point!! If you kept reading the insanity of it would have made your eyes fall out!!! Smart move to stop!!!! (giggle) Life is too short for bad coffee! Dot Matrix

OOps double post!