Dot Matrix

Linda and oldies I PROFOUNDLY disagree. Yes, I do believe ALL of us were escourted to impotency. Although, not all remained impotent. And some fought it. (Yes-men, and frightened believers, seduced/drugged sexually abused women sure have a hard time walking for Christ) I believe the only thing that brought any GOOD to us came for God and BG Leonard. TWI was there to take our search away, not to develop us to serve God but to get us to COMMIT to the corps, the WOW field or local leadership. The GOOD you experienced was NOT provided by VPW or TWI it was provided by God but it seems perhaps God, VPW and TWI are so woven together by some, they cannot be seperated and examined independantly. I do believe people took PFAL and may have had some good weeks, years or times. But those GOOD times usually only happened to those who were not close to HQS. or VPW or the corps. I do not argue that some people had some good things happened while searching and comming in contact with TWI. It depends on how close you were to the monster to see his real agenda. If any of us had a good time or a period of growth it was because of God, Leonard and Stiles. VPW was not there to bring us the good stuff, but to bring "good stuff" to himself. IMO, I do believe VPW was there to wisk all of us to his cult immediately, which upon examination proves to be a horror story. If you were not wisked away immediately PRAISE GOD! But I think it was intended for all of us to be wisked away to VPW's halls of hell. You do not give evil enough credit, or look at it seperately as an agenda, as an end to a means, or as part of a strategy to stop us from growing. We will NEVER agree. Because I unravel the elements to examine what worked, what hurt, what healed, and what destroyed. I do not just say "because there were a few good things that happened to me durring my stay at TWI" - there must be some good in VPW. You may think I am dramatic but I think your view to be shallow and short sighted. I say thank GOD for any good that happened, praise God for Leonard's work; and may VPW have a special place in hell for all the lives he destroyed. I am not saying anything definitively but, IMO, you were soft selling VPW's bullsh--t as something we should perhaps accept because maybe someone got saved. Like God would need a sex pervert to help in our salvation. You can call it melodrama. You can say what ever you you want to say. Your viewpoint and mine are different. I think VPW and his ethics were belched up from the pit of hell. You guys think he may have been okay and gotten tricked. We are at an impass. It is okay if you think I am wrong, it is okay if you think what I am saying is lies. I see you as naive and unwilling to take the blinders off, Oldies. I may seem evil to you but you seem stupid to me. And Oldies who says Weirwille was one of GOD's children? Which God? Again my posts are my opinions which I made clear. I am not declaring a "truth" but my opinion about what happened to us. I think we were sucked in by a FALSE prophet, that is my opinion. Just like you have opinions. And by the way, FALSE prophets were not sent to us by GOD! (the devil quoted scripture to Jesus...) Get a clue. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 09, 2003 at 11:29.]

Should we have a bon fire and toss the ashes in the ocean?

One of the early corps at corps night! An early video of Christian Family and Sex:

My WOW name tag I accidently washed in the laundry and it ran...

Oh no! Look who! And way down in the trunk I found the three stooges:

Oh my Gawd! Thought I threw these out. Here is a pic of Dr. W Oh no! It is the Great forehead! The wife and Rosie:

Oh wow, I forgot this!!! Here is where I found leadership kept their weed. Not really bad because it is in a Christian pouch!

Here is the Way GB pretending to be Jehovah witnesses, coming after a corps drop out [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 11, 2003 at 19:53.]

Here is a snapshot of Craig screaming at a twig leader he thinks might be gay:

Oh my Gawd!!! I Am Dying! Hahahaha :D--> Loved all your stuff! Boy you must have been a great LEADER! You were so prepared!!! Let me look areound and see what else you have, or check my trunk and see what I kept.

Diazbro GRRREEEEAAATTT Point!!!!

Diazbro I AGREE!!!!! Or it is like saying, "sure Jeffrey Dahmer ate people, but he set a lovely table. Let's give him credit for that!"

P.S. My present Baptist church runs seminars all the time and there is ALWAYS a registration fee. I do not mind paying for a class. Church was free, fellowship is free, but I can understand charging for a seminar or class. Just my opinion.

Linda I think there is a sweet heart behind what you are saying. But the guy who had his Bible stolen? If someone got saved and that was the end of it -- okay. But if the old man's address was in the book and the thief came and stole his car, would he have said, "Well, at least he doesn't have to walk anymore." If VPW was a sweet little minister who lacked the skills to put together a church and stole someone elses work and it got people saved I could stop at your post and say yeah, she's right, the heck with things. VPW made a mistake and some good cane out of it. But it was bigger than that; VPW stole the man's lifetime work, then started a ministry to abuse people. So, we got saved and were immediately escourted in to depravity, abuse and oppression. VPW was the counterfiet sent to make sure those that were looking were rendered impotent shortly after finding Christ. There is a difference. IMO VPW made a calculated decision of evil and evil was the result. Any good came via Leonard's hard work and because God loved us. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 08, 2003 at 16:01.]

You are in a hot new relationship Steve, so you do more activity in a different room than I do!!

Ex has a thread called "calling or vocation." I never had a calling until I started to post... It's my calling..... Not a great gift, but it keeps me out of the bars... (Just kidding, I don't drink :D-->)

You are welcome.

Thanks, it made sense to me. It enabled me to seperate the good from the bad. Without knowledge of the class being Leonard's then we are stuck trying to believe God had to use a sexual predator to help us get saved... That was just TOO hard to believe...

Let's all go over to the BRC and get something to eat. I am hungry! Unless you want to reveal your surprises! Please, no more big under pants!

Raf Are you eating brownies?

Hahahahaha You are on a roll tonight! Hahahaha Lol :D-->

This does not mean I am not interested in hearing more truth, that passes some of his research, just it was not the point of what I was saying.

Raf I do not care about the errors in Leonard's works. He was looking to serve God and help people. And because he had a heart to help and serve much of what he taught delivered many. I am not trying to make Leonard the new "god" but instead trying to give him long over due credit, for the wonderful ministry his life stood for. We can always find things we disagree with, this is about figuring out who reached out to us with the class -- but we did not know it. I think you know that. ;)-->

Raf Oh my I am laughing to death here Raf! :D-->

Thanks, :)-->