Dot Matrix

Good Post Kit!

((((RAF))) I would enjoy your input on Greek2me's post. I often questioned God's speaking audibly to VPW.

Can we get back to plagerism? Oldies you can post, but I am going around you. I think Greek2me had a real point when he reminded us that VIC said he heard God audibly Greek2me: And Ex and Evan questioned the begining use of VP as Leonard used BG. Anyone know?

Here ya go Goey: The FIRST use of Child of the Devil was stated by him in speaking/yelling at Imablvr? To Imablvr about me: quote: I was "blessed" at first (by BG's ministry)... Imablvr, you were blessed at and by TWI, if you were there. Admit it, people at TWI were part of that process. Unless you were actively involved in the real BG's ministry, your statement (you were blessed by BG's ministry) is a result of another lie, that the blessings we had were there "only because of God and B.G. Leonard." What nonsense! That's a lie, similar to the lie that VPW was a child of the devil, and has a place in hell. These are lies from the Father of Lies, spewed with bold spittle from someone who demonstratively thinks only evil about VPW. Believing these lies causes you to denounce where you were even! IMO, due to the words of Dot Matrix folks should get out their Spiritual Halitosis meter and start using it. (A BRIEF ASIDE FROM DOT, yet Oldies said he does not remember calling "us" liars (gist)) ------ I said this and he is quoting me here: Oldies responds: Good Lord. I think if the Devil Himself were writing this, He couldn't put his thoughts any more bold and blatant. I profoundly disagree with these words and do not relate or acknowledge these words or experiences in any way in my time in TWI-1. They are lies, lies from the fiery pit of hell. Railing bold words of evil designed to falsely accuse one of God's children from someone who apparently thinks they are the Searcher of Hearts. WOW, what boldness! It demonstrates how hatred of a person, in this case VPW, blinds and distorts anything and everything VPW ever did. Geeze no wonder why the Wierwille's don't post on here. Goodness gracious. Dot then says ?. I say thank GOD for any good that happened, praise God for Leonard's work; and may VPW have a special place in hell for all the lives he destroyed?. Then, I said, ?And Oldies who says Weirwille was one of GOD's children? Which God?? Answering his above comment. He then made an issue out of me apparently saying VPW was born of the wrong seed/child of the devil. Which is something I am not even sure I believe in. MORE FYI: I said this and he quotes me: ?I think VPW was an evil guy doing evil things. He thinks otherwise.? Oldies then says: I've said on more than one occasion that VP did evil works and good works, that he was a compilation of the two. Saying he was doing only evil is distorting the record. Promoting he did evil only distorts his life and this is probably why she thinks he was a child of the devil. He then again says I said this: ?But I still keep my mouth shut, generally, until the false accusations are so blatant (vp is a child of the devil) etc.? I NEVER did. He accuses me twice. I kept thinking I didn't say that, and went looking and I didn't. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 11, 2003 at 4:04.]

Goey I reread the entire thread and I never said that VP was a child of the devil. Another deception by Oldiesman. HE said that VPW was a child of God and I asked Which God? So, just like on all the previous threads, Oldies is taking the reader away from the topic. Long Gone and Orange Cat nailed him on his tatics about a year ago... He is still using them.... I am going to do what I have been told to do with Mike. DO NOT FEED THE MONSTER. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 11, 2003 at 3:18.]

Raf a History of why I do not think Oldies is open to the things here, I think YOU are just a really loving kind man. History from an old thread, please note there is a similar pattern. Please note other posters observations: Here are some past "Oldies did not get it" Apparently LG, who posted this thinks Oldies knows what he is doing as well: This is what I contend he picks at things to divert us from the exposure of VPW's sick/perverted/plagerizing/abuse etc. And here: He makes the topic"All" when it was about VIC and tries to get the conversation off VPW and onto nit-picking about ONE word again. Oldies quotes this person, then answers then OC responds. See a trend here? quote: Sexual predators are not men just falling into sin...they just do not have a weakness for the ladies.. but it is a SERIAL mind set .... Oldies response: This is the part that I still think hasn't been proven yet, that ALL ministers in TWI were sexual predators who weren't merely interested in (unacceptably) satisfying their sexual needs, but much more than that had this evil mind set that made their actions equal to committing rape on their prey. It's still a little extreme, in my opinion. posted February 01, 2003 08:26 OC responds to Oldies: Who said all, Oldone? The topic is Victor Pushead the Predator. OC brings the topic back. Then Oldies responds looking for a fight: He quotes OC quote: Who said all, Oldone? The topic is Victor Pushead the Predator. Then responds: Orange Cat and Evan, I am saying all, because the premise of the argument Excathedra brought up applies to all pastors according to her article: quote: As with rape, a pastor's sexual or romantic involvement with a parishioner is not primarily a matter of sex or sexuality but of power and control. If that statement is true, then you may say that about VPW and all other pastors in TWI too, right? I think what's fair is fair, if you're going to apply that standard to VPW you might as well apply it to all of them. A side comment to Orange Cat: you may dislike me very much, hate my guts even, but in the future if you want me to answer your questions please address me by my handle. NOW OC RESPONDS also aware that Oldies does this stuff on purpose: Later on down Lindy makes a great post to the nay-sayers trying to make things about something else.... Then a poster says: Then OC writes to Raf, because Raf is a good man trying to enlighten Oldies: Then a good point by LG: I posted this old info to show this has been a concern and a pattern seen by other people besides me. Now it is almost a year later. It is the same thing - different day with Oldies. The thread was about plagerism and when it got good and hot it became about him attacking me and he and I fighting. It became about nit-picking me.It is his MO. He is just slicker than Mike. Draw your own conclusions. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 11, 2003 at 3:23.]

The furniture would be perfect if a weird leader used to sit in it!!! Look in your trunk and see what you have.

Do you have to go alone? Can't you take someone with you that understands? Look you may have people treat you crappy. Can you deal with that? Because if you can deal with the worst that can happen, then go and expect the best. Ifyou get yelled at say, "Sorry, I thought I was doing the right and loving thing by telling you about God. I am sorry it turned out to be a cult." Those still in, well from all the posts here, will probably be weird towards you. So, if you can handle that then go. Really, they are mean? Then leave.

Garth: Excellent! Shaz: Good post! Steve: Glad to see your understanding things, you said it well. Evan It would be interesting to see when Vic became VP! Ckeer- good topics! Raf, what do you think? Zixar: Again, wonderful explaination. Steve I wonder if his tongue was real. We don't know. (((Rascal)))) Greek2me - this was a great post that got lost in the battle.

Zixar! GOOD POST! Great grasp of the obvious! Thank you for saying it all again so that maybe the deaf shall hear. I did not say that Weirwille was born of the wrong seed or anything, I said he would sit in the second chair in hell. So NOW Oldies will make the thread be about how I said Weirwille was a child of the devil. So, here you go: Sorry Raf- Oldies I am sick of your insults and lack of compassion and constant validation for a known sexual pervert. If that is the kind of minister that you want-- THEN TAKE HIM. LOVE him. WORSHIP him. All points of logic are lost on you. All compassionate attempts to teach you about the man behind the curtain fall flat. People you want to know why the corps who knew did not make announcements? Did not warn all of you? Oldiesman and people like him are the reason. How do you tell someone like this you just saw VP naked, or you have been hanging around a research guy and you think the research maybe bogus? How do you tell people like this? After all I said to you, all things people have brought to light. All you can then do is argue as to whether VP was born of the right seed? Because I apparently told you he wasn't. Mike told me that I live in hell, and we were all bright enough not to try to figure out if I was born again or not. All points of logic are lost on you. It is like talking to dry wall. Are you really 2 drops short of being a puddle? Your depth and understanding is so "formula" like from a PFAL book. I tell you that there were sex practices going on and you say you do not believe it. (THat calls me a liar.) So, then I give you back up proof with Marsha's letter on Jeudes site and YOU accuse me of "Worshiping Jeudes." Its like the lights are on and no one is home. But I do not think you may be that stupid. I think you may be playing everyone with the stupid, shy, unassuming act you put on. I think you show up whenever anyone shares something bad that happened to them with VPW. But instead of defending his litney of crap your defense is as shallow as "I had a great twig." "This poster....." Praise God you had a nice fellowship. BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE ANYTHING THAT VPW HAS DONE. You swing each argument to something other than defending VPW. So here is your shot. Defend him. Without ridiculing the victims and eliminating testimony to the contrary, defend him. You like his books? He did not write them. You like his class? Oops, not his. Go ahead defend him. Go ahead, tell us why you think he is so great. Tell us why even though the CHURCH has told you what he has done to God's kids, you think the things he did were okay. Or maybe you think the things he DID were NOT okay -- BUT he was Okay in spite of all the things he did. Go ahead...

Now, back to plagerism... Anyone want to post anything else VPW stole?

Ya know Oldies, BTW, I was able to refuse VPW because I do not drink and did not join him. He did not have the opportunity to slip something in the drink. But the set up was there- is that the kinda minister you really want to defend? I may go back a wade through a ton of your nay-saying to prove a point. But for the record, I have gotten plenty of e-mails that see you the way I do. Lost perhaps, deceived- most definitely. Always against the victims- that was unanimous. Like I said it might not be verbatim but the gist of your insults have been that sex with VPW it was consensual. And this point is usually brought up after a woman shares an experience with VPW. Which SHOOTS THE VICTIM. Someone, could have been me, pointed out to you that even if it was consensual it was WRONG and not in line with the actions becoming a minister of God's word. The point was lost on you. To show you that VPW was even drugging girls to have sex with them, I gave you a reference where Marsha and JAL say it. When I pointed you toward Marsha's letter on Juedes site, you disregarded the letter and instead told me that "my God was Juedes". Again, the point was lost on you. You talk about deception? You are a master at a low sweet talking guy who takes the point and swings it to an insult. I do believe VPW is a fake, I think his own resume of actions surely show he was not working FOR God. That is my opinion. I do think his intent was to whisk us away to spiritual impotence. When I shared my thoughts. You make it personal: You say I am bold with lies, insinuate I am working for the devil, say I blind and distort things and have hatred. You take the focus off of the things VPW did, which are part of history now babe, there has been more than a few people who have stepped up to the plate to expose the truth. And you turn it towards ME. "No VPW is not a deceiver! It is Dot!" (Even after we expose his lies, his stealing other authors works, have had women tell of the sexual abuse - you take the focus from exposing a false prophet. Mmmmmmm? Even a big VPW fan would surely pause to see if maybe they need to rethink the pedestal they placed VPW on. Anyone really wanting to be free of this cult and get on with worshiping God, would at least ponder such things.) But you do not miss a beat; you turn it around and make it MY problem. Why how "TWI" of you! But you will be happy to know that it is in keeping with your "Father in the Word". Because I confronted him about the sex stuff and he then made it my problem. His response? "What so ever things are pure think on these things" So, his SEXUAL abuse and practices were NOT wrong, it was HOW I LOOKED AT IT. Sounds like you Oldies, VP would be proud. If you look at other posters and other testimony you will hear repeatedly VPW was not the man you think he was. Shaz has a brilliant post! Raf puts the comparisons between the books of Leonard and Weirwille, Goey posts the ?promise? to both men. But you choose to ignore those things. Instead you look for the most vulnerable or weakest link on the thread. Which on this one is me because I was SO directly affected by VPW?s practices and you start to pick. This will change the focus of the BRILLANT posts and truth and instead place it on me. You are really a professional at this? Are you still on staff? You could have said, "I have a problem with which seems to be a conclusion on your part. I have had so many good things happen to me in TWI-1 I feel like I need to sefend VPW." Then, defend him, do not attack me. But you cannot defend him can you? In the Soul Stealing thread as soon as Sunesis posts a very personal account of what VPW did to her: ?When I realized years ago that VPW had a woman in every port and the sex was much more prevalent than could really be imagined, that VP had been abusing TWIers as far back as when he first visited us "Groovy Christians" in Rye, New York where he had relations with at least one in particular 16 year old that I know of, it makes me sick. ?.When VPW came on to me graphically and lewdly, he told me a "secret" as to why he had sex with the girls and not his wife. I had to keep it lockbox and not tell a soul. Later, I heard he told this same "secret" to other girls. Also, those of you who never knew anything was going on, well, VPW was very careful who he picked - the vulnerable, those who wouldn't tell. Read the article. How these pastors almost have "psychic" ability, is how one parishioner put it, as to whom to pick. And women did speak up. I know a woman in the first family corps who was very angry when VP came on to her and had been doing it to others. She was immediately thrown out and her name slandered, even in our town where she was from. She had "tripped out and was possessed." The standard line they gave. Any woman who spoke up was out - quick. The rest, some even proud to be part of VPW's "secret club" never discussed it with the "uninitiated" or those not "spiritually mature" enough to handle it. VPW was a predator, pure and simple.? You turn things around in the next thread starting slowly: You say: One of the major premises of the soul-stealing article seems to be the following: quote: As with rape, a pastor's sexual or romantic involvement with a parishioner is not primarily a matter of sex or sexuality but of power and control. ?Says who? Would it be at least a possibility that the pastor is having sexual relations because he's horny? I don't doubt there are some cases like this, but I'd like to see the definitive proof that every sexual relation of a pastor/parishioner is about power and control. What about the woman? what if she willingly wants it?? Radar and Ala then try to talk to you and Ala can not believe you posted that! So now the focus is OFF what Sunesis just shared and the issue becomes he was ?horny? and maybe they wanted it. YOU DID NOT GET IT THEN AND YOU DO NOT NOW! Then you prattle on about how it is not control?. Blaa blaaa The posters try to reason with you. Lindy and Radar make great points. Blaa Blaaa You say ?People are responsible for their actions.? This is while folks are trying to unfold to you what happened to them. You minimize the hugeness of VPW?s crap and make it the responsibility of the ?believer? Again, missing the point and changing the focus to protect VPW. Then, ANOTHER testimony from Alfacat who KNOWS of the abuse and he gives you a wake up call? It goes on and on and on. Then, someone asks WHY they did not report this stuff. The victims explain the fear on and on? You say, now showing the strength of your ability to change focus and NOW we have you placing it back on the victim: You quote someone: When I asked why no one said anything there were two answers that stood out in my mind: 1. No one would believe them. 2. They believed they were "doing the Word" according to the MOG. AND YOU (OLDIES) SAY: Another possible reason why some women never said anything: 3. They knew they had sinned by voluntarily committing adultery with VPW, and they kept their sin with VPW in the lockbox. They confessed their sin to God, asked for his forgiveness, and the matter for all intents and purposes, was forgiven and forgotten GEEZ Oldies?. You did not, you do not and you do not WANT TO GET IT. So, even if it was not a forced or evil seduction in your mind, VPW was NOT THE MAN YOU THOUGHT HE WAS! Okay, being as you like to minimize people?s accounts lets say VPW did not drug people, seduce or assault. Let?s just say he poked everything he could?. Somehow by tying him up into that kind of package you become able to handle your deception. ?It wasn?t REALLY rape. It wasn?t bad as the girls wanted it, he was just a horny guy.? So, you take peoples experiences, MANY people?s experiences, minimize them to an acceptable level FOR you, so that you do not have to change. You have had more than TWO witnesses tell you the truth, you choose to be ignorant. LET IT GO. YOU WERE DECEIVED. A TON of believers told you. There has been many witnesses to this fact but you REFUSE to see. You want to accuse me of lies and deceit, you need to get a mirror pal. Just because you choose to remain ignorant does not mean I or anyone else is going to tolerate your bu?sh-t. You see for someone like you to dislike me is an honor because it means I am the antithisis of VPW - who you refuse to knock off the throne you constructed. By the way, in your most recent attacks of me, you are not reading things in context, didn't VPW teach you better than that? But again, now the thread is about "Oldies" much like things become about "Mike" whenever someone tried to share a truthful more informed view on the pratices of VPW. IMO, Oldies you are one brain cell away from being Mike. Just your brand of diversion is more insidious then his. You are never REALLY nailed down, never really open to others, you strke and then crawl back under your "nice guy" sign hoping the few friends you have made here do not have a clear picture of what you promote. Oldies, go back under your sign. Most have seen the real you by now. You can ignore me and I will you. Your acrid and shallow observations were just to derail anyone from seeing VPW's true agenda "steal, kill and destroy" IMO. Again, Shaz has a beautiful post on what evil looks like. Because you saw a few smiles, handshakes and had a few indirect strokes does not mean VPW was not evil to people. IT is the face that evil wears. If you had a "nice twig" thank GOD and your twig leaders. They protected you from the masked man. Good bye Oldies. I am wiping the dust off my feet. You have been helped endlessly. You do not want to know. What do you want? You want me to say VPW was a good guy that went bad. The record reports things differently, unless maybe you go back to when he was 20 or something. But from the point he started poking people, which was EARLY on, he has hurt people. He did it with a smile, which apparently makes everything okay in your book. So, you think I can only see evil BECAUSE of the sex. Sex apparently is not a big deal to you, whether it is executed according to scripture (marriage) or not. So, let's look at the OTHER things. The stolen promise. The stolen books, the stolen class... When I first brought the stolen class up to you year(s) ago, you said "No one can steal the Bible it is there for everyone" (gist). I did not say THE BIBLE I said the class. So, it is not that ALL I see is jaded by the sexual practices. I see other things. A litney of things that when added up prove to be a long story of bad things. I bet Plots as a minister would be tossed out if he ahd a list like this! As would any minister. So, I am not jaded by his sexual crap. You are jaded by deceit and your inability to yield to evidence "the church" has brought to you. I will continue to express my opinions. I am sure you will continue to defend VPW and shut out the testimony of victims. Do not take it so personally when I express my feelings about VPW. They are mine and I am allowed to have them. You strike out as if I blackened your eye. That kind of alliegence may need to be re-examined by you. It is best that we avoid each other. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 10, 2003 at 10:54.]

Sahz You made very good points.

Ex you did a great job upstairs, one of the finest posts EVER! It will help many many other girls! (((((EX)))))

Where is Tom Strange? TGN said something funny on the 11th about him, I thought he should see. Is he around? Have not seen him for about a week!

hahahaha Where is Tom?

Raf Gosh, where were you when he was trashing me? I appreciate your being a peacemaker. There is no resolve except to agree we disagree. I think VPW was an evil guy doing evil things. He thinks otherwise. there is no common ground. However, his first response to me was acrid as was his second and I have had it. He may have a heck of a open heart when YOU speak. Have you heard him speak to Rascal? Or other victims? Not so open minded there Raf. Maybe you can help him. Through the years he has called Ex, me, Rascal and others liars. It takes a lot to expose all these horror stories, and to have this Nay-sayer follow you where ever you go is a bit much. He comes across as a "nice Joe" but then hits hard on the defense of the ministry. He does not waffle on his loyality and does not "learn" from what others share. He merely calls us liars or evil. I do see him as blind. Perhaps, you have seen progress. I have seen all sorts of people having the pieces of the puzzle finally fit for them. Except for Mike and Oldies. They are Weirwille patriots, and think when anyone shares the things that happened to them at the hands of VPW, that we are just drowning in "hate". Weirwille did evil things and I therefore think he was evil. He sees that as hatred. If he even had a modicum of compassion he would say, "I see why you folks are saying what you are saying if VPW did what he did. I am having difficulty believing it." But through the years he has told women they "wanted it" when Weirwille assaulted them. He brings up the very weak argumemt "no body held a gun to your head." (Perhaps not an exact quotes but the gist) Which is like an off-shoot slogan, as they still adhere to many of VP's teachings. I do not think Oldies is evil. I think he lives in La-La land. Like the Walgreens commercials about the town called "perfect". I think his lack of ability to step into someone elses shoes, and his remarks in the past about girls going with VPW and having sex willingly, seem to excuse VPW - in his mind - of any responsibility. Therefore, his "good old Joe" innocent act is really insidious. It underminds sharings from people like Ex who was assaulted, or attemps made by VPW toward me, or many other female posters who have spoken up through the years. It takes the nightmare of TWI and puts it into an acceptable package, because his twig was sweet and the class brought him closer to God. His Nay-saying makes posters who want to share, decide they do not want to be vulnerable to such disregard and dismissal. You may see him as someone who is open. But really Raf, it has been three or more years, is he not saying the exact same things? So how open is he? If you see him as open to hearing you, I will pray that you can help him see, but I am not going to address him anymore unless he comes at me with acrid remarks. And then my sweet Raf, whether you see it as me being the BAD guy or not, I will no longer be assaulted without response. (It is a situation where we will not meet in the middle. I have "SEEN" and cannot go backwards. He will not see and cannot move forward.) God Bless you Raf, you are a nice man. I hope someday he does "get it" [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 09, 2003 at 20:44.]

Thanks Ex!!! It is the truth! What a resume VPW has. A resume to sit second chair in he ll. There has been countless people that have spoken up and I thank you. But Oldies would rather call me evil and speaking for the devil then HEAR anything about VP. SOBEIT! Thanks Vickles! Thanks Rascal, glad you saw the way Oldies has been speaking to me, before I let him have it! Fair is fair. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 09, 2003 at 19:17.]

Raf I was answering his Halitosis remark. I am tired of honey. But generally am less caustic, have you read his posts to me? According to him I am a hateful liar. But I will take what you said and try to understand his limited view point. I will remove one thing. Evan I am not trying to say BG is the way to go. I am saying if these people have Allegiance to VPW because of the PFAL class and material, then thier allegiance is to BG Leonard not VPW. They just do not know it! I do not think we should necessarily align ourselves with any man all-together. The point is VP stole BG's class. "If" the class is what keeps people thinking VPW is a great guy, then think again. Loved your remarks. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 09, 2003 at 19:07.]

Linda Maybe I do not know VPW's heart... If I see someone stab another with a knife and find out it was for no good reason (self defense) I am inclined to think the guy with the knife is bad. I DO think VPW was the counterfeit. Maybe I do not KNOW his heart but let's see: He was a minister of a church and left because of an affair. He wanted to start his own ministry so he plagiarized other people's work to start a ministry. He taught the first few corps first hand that he had "needs to get met". Virtually almost all the ordained women in the ministry first had to service VPW. If they were honest and able to deal with what they have done, they would swing by and tell us. So, he ruined all those girls lives while feeding his depraved sexual appetites. (One example, an 18 year old girl was in the corps it was the 2nd or 3rd, I think. VPW used to meet her at a special place. She was convinced she was special to him. She was young and easily led. One day, she went to their special place and there VPW was "sexually healing" another young corps girl. Both of these women are ordained. I got the story from the first girls' own mouth, when she tried to recruit me into the sex stuff!) He assaulted EX. He invited me to the coach and was naked asking for "favors". When I refused he set out to ruin me. He lied to the believers. I know of at least one meeting where we drove through horrid snow to get to this mandatory meeting. HE cancelled the last teaching and fellowship because he said he had important things God wanted him to attend to -- he was going to sexually "heal" a friend of mine. The ministry paid for abortions when girls themselves in trouble with leadership. One corps girl had SEVEN abortions paid for by ministry money. A HUGE respected leader in TWI told me VPW convinced a woman he could bless her and her daughter sexually. They went to him together. VPW had us gathered around him one night and shared about how in Africa the father deflowers the daughter. Then, he said we should teach our children not to be afraid of our bodies and we could touch their nipples and show them how they hardened. Then, shared an example. Promoting incest. Ask Ex she was at that meeting. My 9th corps friend wrote her paper on adultry being wrong, to tackle the sex practices of TWI, and VPW told her NOT to do the paper. (Squelching research) According to Marsha a corps girl and JAL VPW was known to drug women to get in their pants. http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/ltr_marsha.htm VPW lied about his credentials and published books that were almost verbatim from other authors. He claimed to have a promise from God that is strickenly similar to Leonard's. Goey's post: Well, I think I can safely say IMO, he was a counterfeit, a bad man. IF you cannot see it, then I do not know what to say except check your glasses and see if they have a rose tint. I feel pretty safe even dropping the IMO and saying VPW was a bad person. No, I did not KNOW his heart, but it is safe to assume from his actions he was a louse. Let's not loose common sense here. Someone does all of these things, but he may have had a good heart... Oh pleeeze. I have some swamp land in Florida you might be interested in. If it walks like a duck or squawks like a duck it is probably a duck. Or for those more Biblically minded: Mathew 7: 15-20 15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. This is not to say you are a bad person, I just strongly disagree with you. And strongly feel VPW was a fake.

Oldiesman They will not be able to smell my "Halitosis" (your word) Because your head smells like VP's a$$ You are a blind fool. Ohhhh I am evil. Boo! Don't get so close it might rub off! [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on November 09, 2003 at 18:52.]

You get the matches, I will order some wood, we can invite anyone with stuff left at home they want to burn! Vickles?

Goey: AMEN!!!

Thanks Goey I thought I was allowed to have an opinion. And yes, you see what I am saying -- it was VPW's intent to zip us away to his "cult" If it did not happen immediately it is the grace of God and some truths we got from hearing Leonard's work. IMO VPW is evil.

Thanks Vickles