Dot Matrix

White Dove Love and hugs to you and your kind heart! I am fine in sharing with others if I think it can help them awake. But I love the way you stepped in with loads of consideration. I feel like it needs to be said like America's Most wanted keeps showing crime clips until the criminal is stopped. So, until TWI stops the sex practices (and other evils) and admits they were WRONG or they close down, I can handle it (I think) Ex is another story. Talk about the sweetest mushy hearted person around! And what she endured kills me. "Saying it" can be liberating. It is when people challange it... as if it was consenual or something -- that is when my cage rattles. Fortuately, there are folks like you, Long Gone, Zixar, Raf, Steve, Pirate, Plots, Socks, Shaz, Alphacat, QQ, Diazbro, Hope, Vickles, Dataway, Larry, Garth and others to step in.

Racey enough for ya there Garth! I know I thought Zix was going to have this wild party on here... But I think he is just warming up! Anyway, this is my personal turn on:

When guys see her they would like to participate in "it" with her...

And this seems to always lead to it:

Apparently it started here:

Picture for Garth. Sex can be fun, serious, last all night or be very quick. But it must be consensual.

Hope GREAT post! GREAT article!

edited out at request of excathedera [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on December 31, 2003 at 6:32.]

Galen I have read other threads where if I recall, you have seen other cultures and you think that adultery is accepted in other cultures. and it may have been you who thought maybe VP just had a different way of looking at things - as if he believed in another culture's beliefs on sex and adultery being okay. This was not adultery. It was far greater than that and the comment: "Un-like the Catholics priests he did not claim to be celebite while he was boinking the congregation. Un-like the Baptists minister he did not use the tithe to pay for prostitutes. Un-like the Methodists minister he did not use the tithe to pay for weapons for the Nicaragian-Contras." Seems a little weird and I think that has stirred people up including myself. Just because you pointed out other churches that have their own creeps does not dilute the crimes VPW did to his congregation. So, I am not sure why you would use that as a defense of VPW. Galen, I appreciate your kind post to me. But I sometimes think because you are accepting of other cultures engaging in "free sex" or the like -- that you think what VPW did was not so bad. What he did was criminal. IT is beyond adultery and culture. Do you recall the hurricane in Florida? The people were thirsty and hungry and they sat on heaps that used to be their lives hoping someone would come by and help them fix things. The first group that came to these desperate people tried to sell them 99 cent water for $50.00 a gallon. So, you recognize that as wrong? It is gouging the people. When they are at their lowest. When they cannot deal with one more "bad" thing.... They reach out for a drink of clean water and people used their crippled state to get rich off them. That is what VP did. He came along to girls sitting on heaps that should have been a well-structured life at 17, 18, and 19. They were dying for a drink. Thirsty for answers. In need of healing. And he offered them a drink with a high price to pay for it. (and if they refused... He had been known to give them drinks... questionable drinks... to force them) I will tell you about Jesus if you.... That is why your example just seems odd to me... [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on December 29, 2003 at 21:56.]

Edited out at the request of Excathedera (Was her heartbreaking story) [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on December 31, 2003 at 6:31.]

I am not yelling. But you seem to have a problem with me posting my story and getting a response. Post yours then.... I am going away as well -- it is best!

Here you go -- What do you want from them? They have been kind and understanding when you brought up your story. Heck, Long gone went to bat for you on another thread! Post your #$%%^& story then. What is the deal?

I am not more righteous than you. I JUST BROUGHT THE EXPERIENCE UP and he made a comment. WE BOTH WENT THROUGH IT. YOu have a post button - you can share your story if you are inclined. I just wanted to help Linda see WHO she was defending.

Linda Ex went through similar things as me. It is very painful when people dismiss us as if we sit around making things up to "get" a dead man. That is ridiculous. As I said you may want to go back into the archives. She had a painful first hand experience as well. And was an innocent little teenager!

We posted at the same time. No, he just read what I wrote and commented. He may not even recall you went through similar things. I do not think he is being mean or deliberate in not saying "what you and Dot went through" Heck, I read things all the time and forget who had what happen to them. I was going to mention Sunesis's great account and Valerie but then I thought it might be Kay... I forget. I do not think he is slighting you.

Galen Thank you! I disliked the same corps you disliked I am sure. THOSE type of corps put the good corps through he ll. I tired to protect those in my fellowship but I was berated often by my corps "leaders". Just so you know, we did not like them either. Ex had a VERY sweet fellowship and had to go through hoops to protect her people as well. Liver - no you are not chopped! Kidding. EX- He is saying that to me because I posted my account again. I am sure he does not think of you or many others as the nasty corps. Ya know Galen, VPW and LCM loved the very corps types that hurt us on the field.... Some scary truths there!

Simon By the way, I have laughed about this: "Granted,if you were trying to trim your fingernails with a chainsaw we might all agree that if you do something that stupid,God may not be able to protect you...But I never understood the line of teaching that when a believer got hurt they could somehow trace it back to where they didn't listen to God." Mosh - bless you too!

Ex Great point! Like with M jackson. He has all these boys coming forward saying HE NEVER TOUCHED ME! It does not matter if a thousand say it did not happen to me - if six are saying it happened. Does that make the experiences of the six invalid? No....

Oak I love the skunk pelt thing!

Linda I was in a great twig and then ran a tender twig prior to the corps. If that was my only experience with TWI I would be very defensive of VPW. After all, it was the PFAL class that helped me out of confusion at that time and the fellowships that gave me the "family love" I needed. If all I saw were tender times, I would be a Weirwille fan unable to handle hearing anything negative about him. I would even use the "he is dead and cannot defend himself" defense of him. In a way, I wish I was still sheltered from a lot of what happened behind closed doors, as I believe when I saw what laid behind the doors, it shattered the sweetness forever when I think of TWI. Not that I wanted the sweetness to change, but I found out "what was in the box is not what was painted on the box" so to speak. Like the expression "shattering of innocence" you cannot go back and be innocent again. Because of my good experience in twig and running fellowships I wanted to go be one of God's committed corps. I wanted to give up my house and money and commit my life to serving God and loving his people. Only when I got there VPW called me in the coach and was naked. He presented himself to me and asked me to do something to him and I refused. What I found out was in the corps there was a group within the group that was very different. Some smoked pot, the married people "blessed" the single people sexually "to make them feel like a woman" or to "bless a man of God". The inside of the box was toxic. And I did confront VPW while he was alive as did Ralph D. and others. He was beyond reproof regardless of how meek he said he was at large meetings. He always made it sound as if we could approach him with "chapter and verse" and we would be considered. That was not true. This inner circle sinned and believed that they lived above the word of God. It was described to me as a higher plane and only people who "could handle it" were invited to partake. Anyone who objected or reproved their behavior were considered someone who "stumbled" at their freedom in their walk with Christ. Therefore, there was no way to correct them, they exalted themselves as gods deciding what was right and what was wrong. (Genesis 3:5). As a matter of fact when a Reverend was behaving in a manner that was not acceptable, i.e., getting drunk, bring home people from bars and having sex with them ?to get their needs met?, I reported the person. I figured it would help them and it was the right thing to do. Well, I was almost thrown out of the corps and had to go see Craig. When I saw him he asked me, ?Do you know what you did wrong?? I thought heck no! He said, ?I opened my mouth and this was stuff that needed to be in a lock box.? So when VPW sent for me I thought I would tell him what was going on in his ministry. I figured he would stop it. So, I walked in, ready to tell him what the minister was doing and how Craig told me I was wrong for talking about it! And there VPW sat ? naked. What a shock. Then, I knew he was the one behind the weirdness. And I followed up on it with him and did correct him with the Bible. He would not listen. Later, he told me that I need to learn when to shut-up and not talk about things that should not be talked about. My ninth corps friend also was reproving the ?secret doctrine? with her research paper and was told by VPW to stop working on her subject which was ?Adultery?. I have shared this before but I do again for you Linda. Your instincts maybe to call me a liar. Especially if you had a nice twig and never went beyond that level. There are others you can speak with if you want to know what was really happening. Karl K wrote a book on it. If you believe Ralph D to be a stand up guy and know how to reach him, he?ll tell you and perhaps you will consider his words. You can go back through threads and see many accounts on what happened. I do not fault you for having a hard time with what was really going on. It is frustrating when a person hears it for several years and does not relinquish their position that VPW was some kind of innocent guy who may be slipped up and had a few consensual affairs. That is the ?spin? put on it to combat the truth. Woman confronted VPW all along and either left the ministry or the corps or were slandered by TWI and tossed out. I know one girl in the corps who was stuck having to ?service? the MOG on a regular basis. Well, she was having a nervous breakdown over it. So, what did TWI do? They told the corps she could not handle her position on the field so she was being replaced and brought back to HQS. To straighten her out. She gets back to HQS. And the source of her breakdown was there! Him and his doctrine of devils. He continued to touch her even when she did not want to be touched. And MOG made sure nobody would listen to her by telling everyone at a meeting that she was f?d up corps. He isolated her. It was awful for her. But I knew she wasn?t lying cause they tried to ?get? me. This is tough to take if you came from a sweet twig. But you may want to read some of the archived stuff or seek out some other early corps ? a lot of them knew and if they left they may be willing to talk with you about it. http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/ltr_marsha.htm You may just choose to think of anyone who says anything you do not like about VPW is a liar. I hope you are more open than that. Long gone - you da man!! :)--> Socks, Oak and Shaz! Good posts! [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on December 29, 2003 at 19:50.]

Oak Good points!

I was at Jesus 73. I took PFAL in 1972 but still between the Jesus movement and TWI. I saw a miracle there as well. The deaf girl, in the tent next to mine, woke the next morning able to hear!!!!! Really cool!

1981 -1982

Simon Gentle soul, I believe you will get your miracle. Tom I hear you loud and clear and you seem to have seen what I saw and heard. I had God work in my life back in the innocent twig days... then, the corps leadership deprogrammed us from God's love and the simple believing attached to miracles and answers to prayer by the constant tormented teachings that strogly implied the devil was more powerful than God. We were torn away from God's love and thrust into the arms of Satan, so to speak, when those kind of teachings became ritual. Even though my mind was saying "shut- up" Somewhere the fear of those words attached themselves to my heart and I began to SEE the devil did want me as a Gease spot. After leaving TWI for the first few years, I felt like I was looking over my shoulder to try and see from where the NEXT evil thing would come. (Expecting it, I guess) This helped me to stop looking FOR God's goodness and almost salted the words of the Great Forehead that I would be a grease spot. We were tricked by his spirits and I do think little spirits went out into the crowd to take us down. I cannot tell you the almost terror I felt after those back to back accidents -- that LOY might be right. But somehow I would have rather stayed inside my home and died than call LOY and ask for forgiveness. Again, my brain kept telling me LOY was WRONG. Even as I sat there in fear. Nearly paralyzed to do anything for God. It has taken years and progressive steps to walk out of that kind of thinking. I feel that yesterday FINALLY put "what happened" to me (us) on the table for me. Something I could look at and change, rather than wondering how come I had this fight between my logical head (God loves me) and my fearful heart (but the devil wants my brians splattered on the street and can do it). Thanks to all who have opened up their hearts- this has been very helpful and loving. Yesterday, I washed LOY off of me.

WG God is good. Here are a few more.. I was a WOW the year we moved to a different place after six months. Well, one of our twiggers wanted to follow us. After we got settled he called and wanted to leave the other town and continue in our twig. This was a guy from a poor background and was unable to send a deposit or spend a lot. I was praying for a place in walking distance to a job and our house, but nothing was listed. Well, I am still prayerful about all of this and I see this house (close to us and to town) and think ?They are going to rent.? I figure well if I knock on the door and ask, the worst that could happen is I will be wrong. Big Deal. But if I ask and they are renting it will help Dewayne and will have been an answer from God. I knocked on the door and said ?Are you renting?? ?Why, yes but we have not even made the sign yet. How did you know?? Another time I was WOW in PA. I went to a bar after work as that is where all the laid off steel workers were and our twig filled with those people. Well, nobody was there except for the bartender. We yakked for awhile then the door opened and this man came in who was very threatening. He called me all kinds of names and we a little scary. I thought I want to leave, but something told me he would follow me and I should NOT leave. So, he continued to yell about everything. There was no God. Woman were whores, etc. I kept praying for God to help me. It was tense. Then, I got a thought and did it. I said, ?Who hurt you to get you to act this way?? (or something similar) And he went off about how he lost his job and all kinds of stuff. I told him, ?God loves you.? And he said, ?God does not even know my name!? So, I prayed inwardly and said God what is his name. I had a name pop into my head and I thought, well if I am wrong I can always say ?I do not know your name but God does?? So, I went for it. I said, ?God knows your name Paul and he loves you.? The guy softened and cried, ?How do you know my name?? I replied something like, ?God told me because HE knows your name and he loves you.?