Dot Matrix

(((((AL)))))

Diazbro Ditto- I agree with the whole post.

At the pentecostal group I check out in my search, people had to sit in a chair, close their eyes and say Jesus over and over as fast as they could and when it all jumbled together, people were told keep going keep going, and it did break into an odd sounding language. I have no idea if they ever really SIT or are as confused as some that went through the "breath it in!" the class taught. I have no problem with believing I did SIT as I explained I did it before. I HAVE trouble thinking I ever gave forth an interpetation.... I think I said "Do not turn to the left or the right but keep your eyes steadfastly on me" about 10,000 times..... Hmmmm, wow maybe I should have listened to that... Now looking back.

Okay, I hope Valerie will turn up with her story!!!! We were so boring that I changed the title!!!! [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 07, 2004 at 16:53.]

Valerie Makes me wonder if the other girl had the drink!?! I am so glad you showed up. I believe it was you, Sunesis and I who had this talk before and it SOOOO helped me get over thinking I did something wrong... Or whatever.... The crazies trying to figure it all out. I was going to adk VAL are you out there but then I thought maybe it was Kay. Anyway, thanks for bringing it all up for anyone to read. Thank you for sharing those few years back, you have no idea of what your story did for me... So sorry you went through being talked about at lunch! How awful! After I was MARKED at a meeting with about 300 people (it really does somethng to ya) my biggest fear was he would humiliate me at lunch. I knew everyone would beleive him and nobody would believe me. It paralyzed me. But now we are free and God help them if they call us a devil for speaking up. How about a thread called "Wild things" where you can share the gun story! That was wild. I will start it.

All is forgiven - I offer you love and an ear. You can PT me anytime. If you just want to cry, it is okay. It is time to heal. God loves you Sunny!

Ex, there was a girl on Waydale who mentioned she was abused as well. That poor thing was looking for validation other victims, understanding or whatever... That poor girl got blasted for the next 22 pages for being a liar, whore, devil, full of spirits etc. I felt so bad for her that I was unable to tell anyone anything that happened to me for the next few years... I could not even validate her because of the fear...

Again CW That is great insight to the "protect" the ministry at all costs logic. You, Ex, vickles and others were expendable. Protect the lie - admit nothing and blame others. So, I think that treatment of us in TWI set a pattern that even among the off-shoots and some of those that are out seem to cling to-- Not saying anyone on this thread but certainly on others.

Great post CW, EX, Outin88, Hope Also Long gone and early made some very good points about people praying for help and having a weirdo show up. Or if TWI did not exist would it put God out of business? Joe G. and I prayed to find God and answers... Among the first to arrive on the scene was a woman from Ardmore who was a "prophetess" named Evelyn. She turned out to be a flake. So, I think even though we are young and do not understand what is going on-- some how we were required to test the spirits. Even though at that time we did not know deception from truth we prayed for God to help/find us and we did run into some weirdo's. Then, came some more strange things including a church in Parksburg I read about in a book when we were looking. Very emotional Pentecostal place. But there were strange things there as well. Then, a prophesy, "I speak not through this filthy rag to glorify men but to glorify me..." I thought this cannot be right and left. Joe then got into TWI via Eddie and we did see God. We saw him, but had we left when we saw the crap like we did with the other places I think we would have been better off. If God called us we would have gotten "the calling" if TWI existed or not. I am thankful for some good times, but I wish I kept looking when I KNEW something was wrong. So, Long Gone and Early have very good and valid points. For people to flare at their points is not any different then people flaring up at J-Lingo. Isn't that what this thread is about? Recognizing where people are coming from and trying to talk... [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 05, 2004 at 12:53.]

Jon- "I really did need TWI for several years. I read the Christian ettiquette book a lot. Became much more housebroken." LOL Sunny - good luck with your healing. I bet you were young and caught up in it. Probably as a young girl you thought "relations" were part of love or perhaps you could only rationalize it with thinking "its okay, I am in love." You were in an awful situation. Your brain and heart probably were conflicted. I hope you are successful in figuring it all out. Facing it can be painful but not facing it can destroy you. I bet you swing with highs and lows. Whatever your pattern is, if it is coming up, it is time to look and to heal. I can be a good advocate when I do not feel attacked or insulted. I wish you health.

I spoke in tongues before TWI. I spoke in tongues the first time in my bedroom when I cried out to God for help! I told him "I beleive Jesus is Lord, I believe he got up from the dead, I believe, I believe - but what f'ng good has it ever done me?" I had serious problems as we had recently buried my Mom. I was 17. And the room seemed to get brighter and I did speak in tongues. LATER, I found out what it was. And yes, I still do it.

Brady we will miss you! Gee Ex10, I do not think you meant to compile this into a book, I thought it meant a good read while visiting the forum.

Yes, johnny tell your story... I am sure it is a good one!

IMHO Okay, I speak for myself as well, but taking PFAL was the greatest thing for me at that time in my life. And to me the ministry was sweet and wonderful. We have all met someone who just got born-again; all they see are great things. Everything is exciting. Heck, they had a joke in a movie once to show what a bad plane ride the character had by saying, ?and I got to sit next to someone who just got born-again.? The entire world is wonderful and you kind of want to tell everyone. I LOVED PFAL. I loved twig and the people in twig. I loved them. So, from 1972 to about 1977 I had some of the best, most simple, lovely times with God, I ever had. But because I was enjoying my new birth in Christ does that mean the ministry itself was ?good? at that time? In other words, because I was having GOOD times with God does it mean the ministry of TWI was good? Well, let me see and my years may be off a bit but you will get the idea? While I was praising God and seeing the Lord help teens exit from a drug culture, as I was singing sweetly out of the blue book, and lining up to be ministered to, while I was seeing God, and getting answers to prayer, my view of the TWI was nothing but GREAT! The reality was Hqs. around circa 72-76, without hunting for ?the way living in Love? I will try to do my best. VPW had already gone out to see Jim Doop and find out about the ?free sex? he had in his ministry so VPW to validate his lifestyle, VPW had already had an affair and left the church, VPW took Leonard?s class and reworked it a little and was selling it as his own work. He was sleeping with the teens and young girls in the 3rd and 4th corps. So, while I was having the greatest time finding the Lord does NOT mean the ministry was innocent and good. It means, like any new person to the greatness of finding Jesus, I was enamored with seeing God! Somehow, in the middle of all of this God still worked. God still loved us. God still answered prayer. Funny cause when I saw the dark side of TWI it was around 1981. So, my concept of the ?good old days? are before that date. Yet folks that saw the evil around 1990 refer to the time before 1990 as the ?good old days?. Someone once posted about their good old days right up until the evil started in 1987. I think the ?good old days? maybe the days when we held onto to being born-again, we saw love in our fellowships and the beginning of the bad is when we found out what was going on. I wonder if Peter J Wade would refer to the days prior to 1972 as the ?good old days? The point is maybe our good old days were because we were enjoying God for the first times in our lives and it had very little to do with the state of HQS. Johnny Lingo BTW, I believe that little girl was sent to you by God. Johnny, that little gal God brought in your life was a true lover of God and excited about him! She brought the genuine enthusiasm of the Lord. Despite the darkness that was brewing at HQS. I think God brought her into your life. I do not know how to reconcile everything else except by your own example. To my understanding of your post this is what it speaks to me... You SAW bad stuff in the TWI in Alaska. (paraphrased) You say the conspiracy of silence enable a perpetrator to hurt kids. Yet, somehow you were a good and decent lover of God who still tried to do the right thing and stop the bad stuff. That little gal that witnessed to you was a gift from God as you were to those people in Alaska. She was the real deal as were you. The stuff around you was not healthy or anything God would endorse. God would not want woman abused in TWI or people to be conned out of money or any of it. God surely was not behind kids being hurt in Alaska even though you were the real deal. Do you think those kids needed that Children?s Fellowship to learn about Jesus or do you think God could have reached them another way, even though you were the real deal? Did that guy want to teach children to abuse them or lead them to God? And when those kids grow and they try to sort it all out, they may remember a great guy they heard about who tried to stop it ? Johnny Lingo. But will they think despite the molestation, I am so thankful I heard of the Lord? Or geez, why didn?t people listen to Johnny? We could have heard of Jesus down the street and not have been molested. It is all very convoluted. Praise God for your good times. Did I see God while in TWI ? yes I did. But did I see TWI as a God based organization once I could LOOK at it ? No. (((everyone))))

I did not mean to offend you :o-->, Gosh Paw, I did not read this thinking you were entertaining a book... I thought maybe Karl or another poster, so I wanted to make my wishes known. I am looking into the legal aspects of our words printed here. Not for any other reason than I am curious now. When we post "our story" in pieces it feels much more safe, some how. I know of people who are hiding from abusive spouses or have relatives in the public eye who would not want to be recognized... etc. Karl asked before he put anything down and Paw I perceive you to be a man of integrity. When it began to be discussed about compiling this stuff, I forget who brought it up, it did make me feel unsafe. That brings up another point, I know I feel comfortable sometimes and I need to remember that is NOT the case. I am all for speaking up, I just like to know the genre in which I am speaking so I can decide if I want to be a part of those repercussions. I do feel there is someone who would come after me if he figured out. I do not think he will EVER come here, but he may read a book... I just like to kinda know... No offense was meant to you Paw, I was just speaking in general. ((((Paw)))

Here kitty kitty --- A birthday kiss for you!

Someone else posted on this before and said that VPW was stilling hitting on some woman he knew almost right up until he died or somthing... It is on some thread some where about a year ago, maybe. At the time, I still had my hopes for change and I wrote one more letter to VP. In it I told him that I believed he had been deceived by devil spirits designed to take down the ministry... on and on. (He told me how to get letters to him that would not be opened by anyone but him. I used that method so I can only assume it got to him.) I had always hoped there was a change but was when I read what I just mentioned It rang more true to me... That whole once fooled shame on you, twice fooled shame on me thing applied. I hope he did honestly seek repentance... But I reserve the right to doubt it.

Sorry as far as I am concerned - I do not want my stuff in a book unless I have given permission or write it myself. I do not want it pulled apart by nay-sayers or found in one of their books - for one. I already have a little of my stuff in Karls's book, I gave him permission. But anyone can read it HERE.

"Could we please get rid of these silly trees? I can't see stuff . . . Can I say that I'm "....ed"??? When are we all going to take some responsibility??? We are taken advantage of when we LET ourselves be taken advantage of. I was hurt, too -- extremely hurt. But guess what. . . I still had a mind of my own and KNEW BETTER but I LIKED being with the MOG. Personally, I think Wierwille is to blame for the whole damn thing -- what a jerk. Craig loved Wierwille like we loved Craig. It goes from generation to generation just like in a regular old family." And "I think that by the time the MOG had (allegedley) "perfected" it, he could do things "spriritually" like on a Sunday night teaching tape reach people like me who lived miles away! Just on a tape! I remember the first time I was stimulated just by listening to a Sunday teaching tape while out WOW -- it spooked me, but I was a gal who was prone to that anyway." "But honestly, I WANTED to be with him. He never forced me to do anything. My goof was to "love" him emotionally. Couldn't get past that part. And really, I think I still do and probably always will." Talk about oh please!!!!!! Go back to your wine and your SNS tape, sounds like a wonderful date for you. [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 03, 2004 at 5:48.]

phock you sunny No, we both said we were average -- perhaps you were hitting the bottle again? eh? [This message was edited by Dot Matrix on January 03, 2004 at 8:32.]

Socks I love this: "With the Way, the well is tainted, put up a "beware" sign and go somewhere else."

Doze "You really can't sell ice cubes to Eskimos. " LOL Good point!

I like your title.

Karl's Book the cult that Snapped, I think it is talked about on the front page of Grease Spot.

Great post Hopeful!