Dot Matrix

Oh Tommy? Are you ready?

Way back I love what you said...

Amen!

(((Song))) We need to get a bong for old times sake! Just kidding....

EX10 You made great points. I drove people to job interviews, wrote their resumes, prayed for them in the car while they spoke to human resources... and it was never enough. How many times did anyone ever offer you gas money? Or long distance phone money? And after calling all over "to serve" and driving all over "to love people" we still did not do enough... We heard it from leaders above and sometimes from our own people we were doing all of this for-- The coin does have two sides.

I just keep reading that over and over Socks. I think that is why I finally left. To sum it up. Because my life was being destroyed and I thought I was called to go serve God and his people via the corps program -- and one day when I saw how destructive it was and KNEW it was never going to be fixed. I knew then I had to leave. One of the confusing things was if I was called to help serve God's people and this program I was in was destroying my life (and I would not participate in destroying others.) Then who called me? Next, I had to see it was not a calling but a con built on the love people had in their hearts to drop everything and "follow" (go in the corps). So, the fact that I lost so much; house, pets, money, good paying job was for NOTHING. It is a he11 of a bullet between the eyes.

Socks said: "But if the calling destroys the vessel it lives in, what's really going on?" Ain't that the truth?

That cannot even be stated as a 100% as I worked limb staff. It was before I went into the corps. I worked there because I lived about 15 minutes away. Some of the finest people I know were there with me like Terry Pascoe from the 7th. WW- For the most part, we did not get to choose our assignments they were given to us. There were good and bad corps sprinkled all over. But many (not all) of the BETTER assignments went to those that sold out (not all). And in order to sell out you had to buy into the Weirwille crap.

Galen Al was corps and I knew him in the stupid place. He was sweet, kind, cool and fun. And very attractive. He was a good person that happened to be corps. My sister knew Alfacat. My sister was never corps. She thinks he is one of the best humored greatest believers she ever met. Washington Weather was corps she stood against some of the evil people and trends of the corps. She had guts and integrity, she was wonderful and was corps. She was a foxy little thing that did not have to go corps to get attention or be noticed. Excathedra although her post are short and perhaps do not expose her great depth and oceans of love, believe me they are there. She is deep and understanding and put herself between injured people and screaming leadership (other corps) many many times. Vickles was corps and my roommate. She was sweet and soft and I think she would have died rather than ever sacrifice people. MoreyT is corps and was a really full of life kind wonderful woman with a warm and loving heart. Too Gray now - was very cool. He was the kind of guy other guys wanted to be like in high school. He was warm, talented and loving. I met Hope several times and although we did not get to really know each other both she and her husband were very up lifting and fun to be around. These are just some of the people that you do know Galen. You know them from here. You have inter acted with them. As much time as we spend here you probably know them as well if not better than the ones who hurt you. So, now you have met some folks you would have loved to have been around. We probably did not like the same corps to which you refer. I hope this helps to show you the people who you never met. It is unfortunate you had all the corps creeps. THERE WERE CREEPS. Oh, my could we tell you stories about being in rez with them or under them on the field! I understand how you feel. There are many other wonderful x-corps here but I did not know them personally prior to the board so I did not mention them. I just never got how you could blanket all or almost all the corps as "bad" and yet not see the guy in charge VPW was training them to be the monsters you met. You say you did not know him so you did not want to blame him, and then you met a few nasty corps and do not mind labeling them as responsible for the "bad" on the field. As much as I cannot stand some of the rotten corps by which I was injured, I KNOW they were trained by VPW to be hard-nosed unloving, judgemental, self serving, ego maniacs. The buck stops there.... I bet, you saw HIS training each time you were offended. I do understand your feelings of the "corps" on a whole because I feel the same way. Just I know VPW is the source of the training. I know what you and Diazbro are saying about florishing areas that HQS sent the corps to and they killed the area and then blamed the believers there. I was fortunate that I grew in an area without corps for about 3 years before they sent corps in to ruin things. I had been with Joe Guarini the best ever person and Eddie Fisher and neither of them were corps at the time. When they did send corps it was the Merkels and Lynn was kinder to me than almost anyone ever... I was very lucky to have a soft fertile ground in which to grow. But then came the corps as "branch leaders" and the meaness started. But I will tell you this, one of the poor girls was very young and already had VPW abuse her sexually. And other lock box stories were leaking out. When the corps came so did the weird teachings of Weirwille, the odd sex practices and beliefs, and the condemnation. Weirwille may have started the ministry (off stolen material) but his own odd behavior and training of that behavior is what killed the twigs and branch. The seeds of the end of the ministry were in the beginning of it as it all came from a lying cheating abusive man named VPW.

I saw this guy on TV today and he is hysterical. He is a Christian who is now touring with churches. He was Benny on Home Improvement He is from New York and goes into this whole thing... My neighborhood was so tough... The line for the confessional is so long in my neighborhood -- they had to put in an electric chair. When you kneel to pray -- someone has to cover you. I knew nothing about the Bible, someone told me about Paul and I thought they meant the Beatle... www.hahajim.org

Oh, you are in California -- everything is expensive there. Can she be a live in maid or nanny? That way she has a place to live and money.

Dovey She probably already tried this and forgive me for saying something you may have done-- When I left TWI and my hubby, I had nothing & I had to rent a room in a house (less than a roommate situation) It was only around $200.00 per month at the time. It was month to month and I was able to get an apt. within 90 days or so... My sister found a restuartuant with rooms for rent when she was in a similar situation. She worked in the resturant and lived in one of the rooms. She had to share a bathroom but everyone was clean. It was very cheap.

Do not read if you are still trying this To CW before I go nuts CW I got the items, used the keys icl. the ring onto the box and the stick never found another round thing. Plugged in the player, turned it on.Tried the thing on the URL, read the clue and it meant nothing to me so I quit! How do you open the dang door?

Leaf When I first left I could not be involved with anyone. IT became crazy. An old gal pal from TWI wanted to get together and I could not even handle that... I kept thinking if we meet at a stop sign in separate cars, pointed in different directions then I might be able to speak with her through our open windows. Commitments killed me. Anything where I had to "sit" in a class almost made me freeze at the door. It is a journey to yourself. But when you initially poised your question, I pictured you in the gang with whom I hung. We were always questioning things. We questioned authority, the war, why the stars seemed to hang in the sky, the possibilities were endless… Of course, much like the cast of that 70’s show much discussion was held around “billows of smoke” as we were searching. We did not want to end up like our parents, we could identify with Carly Simon’s “stayed in bed all morning just to past the time… There’s something wrong here there can be no denying…” Or in many Dylan tunes. When the Beatles went on their search and left behind the pop sound of “Eight days of Week” for the more physcodellic sounds of “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds”… We the generation of the late 60’s and early 70’s were a questioning, rebellious group. The specifics of how we wound up on this “magical mystery tour” maybe different but the bottom line was we were all looking for something and thought we may have found it in TWI. Why, once we got in did we stop asking questions? Intimidation, fear, we bought into the Moggie, obedience, fear, not wanting to loose friendships, not wanting to be the trouble maker – on and on the list goes…. The important thing to do is to find yourself again, love yourself and heal.

hehehehehe :D-->

In PA, almost all my classes were filled with Catholics and "cool" searchers of the era. What do you think was the lure for the Catholics?

Wow, what a jerk he was/is.

Of course with my post right above yours talking in "general" terms it surely does seem to be directed at my post so I would like to respond. I am glad you shared your story as that represents a group I did not... I was answering her question of how we "the questioning baby boomers" got to a point where we stopped questioning. I am sure there are some other general answers for groups I did not represent. As I said, I was trying to answer some general reasons why "the questioning baby boomers" stopped asking questions. I am sure the nice families of that era had some general things that brought them into TWI as do the addicts or those seeking deliverance from disease. So, just for the record these are some general things I saw, I am not claiming them to be all the general reasons. Then, as I said, there were very specific things, if I went into all of them it would have to be each person giving their story. It would be impossible to do that. And a big YES to There were whole families just looking for answers, a way to understand the Bible and comfort. Funny, but a lot of them were Catholics or whole Catholic families. I am glad you added that. :)-->

IMO Well, this topic is a vein that is part of a confluence of topics that flow into “Did the ministry start out bad or Become bad?” What I have learned from the well informed people here at GS is the following: I came to the internet convinced that VPW and TWI were “GOOD” and through the years went “bad” I was convinced of this because it was “my truth”. In 1972 the ministry was great, by 1976 I saw some very disturbing behavior but thought it to be isolated problems. By 1981 after being invited into the coach I saw VPW as a sick man. Then, I noticed other people felt the same way I did. Except their years were not the came as mine. The good years for one was 1980 to 1991 and then they thought the ministry corrupted. Another was it was good from 1983 to 1993 then it went bad. I began to read people’s stories and to each person the ministry was “good” when they first got in and went bad after they recognized some very disturbing practices. So, I took away the “years” people sited and what basically people were saying was “When I got “in” it was great! Then when I got out it was “bad”” Therefore, the responses were all subjective. It was all persona; data based on experience. So, I began to read some FACTS on when TWI started to have its problems. The more I read and the more “people in the know” with whom I spoke led me to believe the problems with TWI and in TWI were from its inception. But because each of us went into it because what intrigued was something good we saw we seemed to assume the ministry was good because we benefited from parts of our participation and it went bad when we no longer benefited. What I found was, it was started by a man who lied about his training, and stole other people’s hard work and stated it was his own discoveries. Not only did he claim it to be his own he packaged it by a promise from God and a phenomenon/sign of seeing it snow. I contend the “good” we all experienced when we all got in during our different years was a result of the “work” being presented to us actually coming from GOOD men who had nothing to do with TWI. Men like BG Leonard and Bullinger. We saw the sparkle of the word, we got to see a God we were searching for but then the light grew dim and was replaced by nasty corps people, outrageous rules, invasion of privacy and blind acceptance of what the Moggie said. (That Moggie was ultimately VPW, but it then ran downhill and the poor believer had their twig Moggie, branch Moggie, area Moggie, territory Moggie and so forth to whom you pledged your obedience.) IMO, The ministry was evil because an "evil/bad" (whatever your word is) man started it. The few glimmering moments all of us experienced, including myself, were the results of actual Biblical things that were researched by actual good men who actually loved God. So the lie continues to this day in “deception” those who believe VPW was a good man because they had a “few good” times in what had become his ministry. Most of the people still holding onto the myth are folks that were on the field as believers or twig leaders who did not see the genesis of evil in the men at the top. This most arguments here are between those that knew VPW/LCM and witnessed the evil or have a journalist training in digging for facts like Raf and those that refuse to see past their limited perspective on “I had a good time in Twig” therefore TWI was not evil -- to an actual person who thinks PFAL was “god breathed” and given to VPW. Welcome newbies and good luck navigating between the theories and the facts. I hope you find answers and healing. This is my opinion.

Specifically? I know that VPW targeted people with sexual abuse to be able to sexually abuse them himself. The means to discover the abuse was manifest in things like "Birth to the corps" papers. People would bare their souls then be called into the coach to be "healed" of their pasts only to have Moggie fondle them.... Many specifics with common threads.... Abuse, using people and destroying lives..

NLBT I think for each of us there are specifics that made us stop asking questions and "accept" things we otherwise would have questioned. Then, I also think there are general answers. Generally: Many of us came for abused homes and were looking for love and our first contact with TWI was a bunch of smiling people who had the "answers" Many of that ilk (circa 60's and 70's) were searchers willing to look beyond "Father knows Best" and "Leave it to Beaver" to find answers. We knew we did not have the TV Dad or Mom and were tired of being force fed that "image" of happiness. We then took off our knee socks, gold cross necklace and weejun shoes. We replaced them with French t-shirts, love beads and moccasins. We thought we knew more than our parents but were unsure of the truth we were looking for-- TWI answered the unrest of the young soul with tangible things like a new "family" answers behind the false fronts we saw etc... Many of us were conspiracy theorists. We did not believe JFK was killed by Oswald, we were not going to swallow the Viet Nam war, we figured out that the "white" foods we bought were making us sick but were not sure what to do about it. TWI came along with wholesome foods and explanations. There were not really that many Jews killed in the war, there were not really only two others killed with Christ, do not drink "water" with your meals, and start to stock pile food because the country would fall in the latter 70's. We sought empowerment: With TWI we learned that we could rebuke the bad in our lives, take our foot off the hose to the more abundant life and change our circumstances. There were nice verses to sustain these teachings. And many churches teach those verses today... Only after TWI supplied the verses they began to remove "God" from the center of our lives and replace it with the "Man of God." After a few steps forward in this thinking it made sense to people that the Man of God stood "in the gap" for us. So, instead of praying when we had trouble we ran to the Moggie and sought protection from our ailments. We gave them too much power in our lives. Then, with us being fixated on their "powers" or astute ability to "see" darkness in our lives and rebuke it for us, we bought into things like "the porcelain figurines you have in your home are evil and making you sick." It was seduction kind of like Eve in the garden; it took many sly suggestions that violated her logic to get her to a place where she was deceived. Then you can break down what was done to seduce us. There are old threads which I think expose this, one of which is Help the PFAL class was Stolen, another is about if it really snowed at the pumps, etc.

Good post Pat.

I think I would like to tatoo a guy in chaps... Tom what are you doing later?

Kit:

How did they reconcile all of this with Dr. Win---er and Dottie being in the medical field. Does that mean all the patients were possessed in their eyes? And when they operated successfully and the people got healed.... What was removed if illness is ALWAYS a spirit and sin? Did the Doc remove sin?? A spirit??? Then how was there healing????? hmmmmmmmm? Because illness is illness? perhaps?