Broken Arrow

This may not be a very popular post, but there is a trade off. There was Wierwille and his abuse, and then there were the followers who craved something from him. I'm not talking about the kid who took the class because a nice looking guy or girl attracted them into it, I'm talking about those of us who stayed for years. What was the payoff? We were getting something from all of this. I claimed that I didn't know the stuff that was going on, which was true. Then again, I really didn't want to know either. It was all there in front of me if I was willing to look. But TWI offered me a type of "home". Legalism, and abuse is not pleasant to say the least. But it does make certain things easy. I need for someone else to tell me I'm okay because deep inside I'm insecure. So if I do the programs, take the classes, and attend the meetings, I'm "okay". I know because they told me so. In other words, I gave them the power to define me. I wanted, I thought I needed, something else or someone to tell me I was okay. I may have been in a cult, but at least it was my cult. While I may not be getting along so well in my life, or even with other people in TWI, I could still go to a meeting and it would be my place, a sense of belonging. So Wierwille was abusive. One mark of an abuser is that they, well, abuse. Another mark of an abuser is just when he feels he may be losing control of his victim, he does a double flip and morphs into a very sweet and kind person and then reverts back once the control is re-established. So occasionally, just occasionally a person might experience love in TWI. Then the abuse would resume and we would wait for the next drop of kindness and affirmation to come from the ivory tower of Wierwille. LCM tried to do the same thing, but not as many people gave a hoot what he thought. The truth is, as broken as VPW was, we were also broken, we were looking for something to fill our own void. This is, in my opinion, why people continue to stay in abusive relationships and situations. Look around you at all the people that left TWI only to get involved in an offshoot or another legalistic situation. I would have stayed the same, except in my case I experienced a crisis in my life that could not be addressed by anything that existed within the TWI framework offshoot or otherwise. In other words, that which I had given about 15 years of my life to had become absolutely useless and I believe I saw things as they were. That, and I started reading Waydale and eventually Greasespot. Then again, I had had other crisis previously and they never inspired me to exit TWI, so I don't know. I guess I was just ready. Anyway, I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes or hurt anyone's feelings. These are just thoughts of mine.

Sort of ill advised to have a piano out in the open when it might rain, don't you think? I mean, it's not like 2 men can grab a piano and make a dash for it. Forget about the law of believing, what about common sense? Something ww was supposed to be gifted with to pass down to us keeds. Kind of like Yoda, and the force. Hey, I just thought of something. Do you think we're smarter now than Wierwille was then? Maybe all 50 plus year olds were smarter than Wierwille!

It was from that "Day with the Wierwille's" reading, I think. I believe he was talking about one of the Somerville children...one of the sons of his daughter, was it Mary?

He said he played for Lakeland College, which is a very small school in Wisconsin. Claims to have made their Hall of Fame.

Did it work?

Thanks ww.

Substitute the word "house painter" for the word "preacher" in the above paragraph, and you have Adolf Hitler.

This was one of the first things that really started the process of me eventually leaving TWI. If one were a doctor, a judge (you'll remember we had a Federal Judge speak at one ROA), a professional athlete, psychiatrist or the owner of a huge business, such as Buck Stoves, a Broadway actress, or professional musician, you were greatly revered in the ministry. However, if you were young and career-minded and wanted to take the time to develop yourself, you were ostracized. I knew quite a few people who quit doing things in the name of "moving the Word".

Thanks. Any adult over the age of 40 could have foreseen how dangerous this hitchhiking practice was. It was just common sense.

Case in point; in "Advanced Class '79 VP said something to the effect that if you were tightly connected to God, you could tell someone to go get a bucket of water and it would be the Word (or was it the will) of God. Back in those days, none of us felt that we could approach the spirituality of Wierwille so the implication was, if HE told US to go get a bucket of water, it would be the Word of God. Many other leaders took this bird-brained approach to their leadership and treated their people the same way. As they say, "it rolls downhill".

So...if they "straightened everything out", quit being hypocrites and started doing all these things, would you go back?

I am aware of one death relative to hitchhiking to or from LEAD, but I'm not aware of any other. Are there more? Would you please tell me where I can find a link in GS about this?

Forgot all about it until I read this thread. I don't think about it much though at the time I was completely devastated.

Those are great points, Twinky. Many Christians seem to regard the 1st century church as some sort of standard that we all strive for. The Pastor of my church brought up the very same point and that is, the 1st century church was a mess and had a lot of problems, as does the church today.

Un-bel-ievable!!! That any parent, but especially a parent who espouses to know God, would literally sacrifice not just one daughter but two and thinking they're doing God's will somehow! How wazzed out do you have to be? My God! That, and in the face of the oldest daughter's revelations. That's just over the top. But, I suppose people have been practicing child sacrifice to some sort of God for millenia. This is just another form. Man I'm glad I'm out.

Maybe he was. It was Don Wierwille speaking during an ordination, of all things!

I read somewhere that someone said pride, which I'm taking the liberty of equating with vanity, is like one of those 50's horror movies where the star gets attacked by a man eating plant. As soon as he cuts off one vine with a machete there's another growing on the other and he barely gets free. Let us all beware!

I fully agree with Waysider, especially the part about the sandwich. If you find that you for some reason need to debate these guys, there are books you can read that will give you some common rebuttals for the Jw's and other cult groups, even TWI. You can find them in a Christian bookstore and probably a library. I found this necessary when a Morman duo went about converting a family member of mine. I got the book, then when they came around I had some things to say because I knew what they were going to say. They had to go get one of their elders to argue with me. Had it not been my niece or another family member, I wouldn't given them the time of day. My niece converted and moved to Utah but later recanted and returned home. How much did my rebuttal play in the overall scheme of things? Probably nothing. Anyway, something you can do if you want.

I have to say though, I worked in a bank for a time and we had to go through ethics training once a year. We all hated it but I was amazed how easy it is to commit an ethics violation without even really realizing it. For example if you find out that your CEO is resigning and then casually mention that to your spouse before the information is made public. You will be guilty of insider trading if your spouse sells their stocked based on that information. Or if you're a public employee and order pizza for your staff who have to work late, you'll be cited with an ethics violation if the vendor offers it at no charge and you accept it. Or if you tell a co-worker of the opposite sex they look "hot". Ethically that's an inappropriate comment. I know some that would actually think that's a compliment and maybe it is in other contexts but not at the workplace. So even though ethics sounds like a pretty simple topic, which it is, we sometimes fail to consider certain actions that may seem innocent but in truth are unethical, or even illegal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing anybody in the news or who used to be considered a MOG, I'm just making a case for ethics training.

I think that it was the believing of the Way Corps that prevented that calamity. Or something like that.

The spirit of VP would say that it was our failure to rise up in our believing to be able to see these things come to pass. You know, "I'm building a bridge..." and all that. Also, don't forget, God first gave the revelation of the fast food restaurant to Vic. Vic tried to get Christian businessmen interested in the concept but they just couldn't grasp the vision and failed in their believing. Then, once the revelation was spoken in the senses realm, the devil got a hold of it and now it's spread worldwide. (Sigh) If only people would have listened to Victor we would have "Godly" fast food restaurants clogging people's arteries. "I won't let you down VP! I'll sign the green card!"

Lol! Just to name a few!

You know what Twinky and Allen? I think I finally get it. It took awhile. You're talking about "keeping a stiff upper lip, don't let your problems hang out there for all to see", right? I can see where you might think of this is an "American thing", whereas it may not even occur to someone from Great Britain or another country to tell a story like this publically. You might even wonder what the point of doing that would be since it isn't going to change anything that happened. An American who cuts their hand while cutting lettuce might go, "Oh my God!!! I've cut my hand, I'm bleeding! I need stitches!!! Take me to Emergency room immediately before I bleed to death!!!" The American would leave at once to get the stitches, and then later, in keeping with American tradition, sue the hospital. Where a Brit might say in a very controlled tone, "Oh drat, I do believe I've cut my hand. It would seem I may need stitches. May I impose on you to take me to the Emergency Room at Hospital? Of course, I will reimburse you for any expenses you may incur. You will? Oh! You're too kind! Well, off with us then! No use in getting worked up is there? I mean it's not as if it's the end of the world or anything. May as well enjoy the ride." Does that pretty much explain it? I think that's because he broke her jaw and she has permanent damage. I think...or maybe she's slow. "a very astute female lawyer (of hers i guess) was blown away by michelle and her wanting to do nothing but help others oh here i go, shut up ex ;)/ Please don't shut up, Excie.

Love that quote Rottie! There's some good contemporary Christian music out there. There's some crap too, but there's some good stuff. What really chaps me off, though is when they take an old hymn like, "How Great Thou Art", and they add a rock beat to it. Ooooh! If you want to write and record new music fine, but the old hymns are just fine the way they are.

What constant news coverage? There hasn't been anything in the news for over a year. Even then, the three victims hardly said anything. Isn't one of them allowed to speak out without being accused of being a greedy money maker? I'm sorry about what happened to your relative.