Broken Arrow

When I was "in", you weren't supposed to call them "sponsors", but "spiritual partners". Kind of creepy when you think about it. Did that change back? Yes Gen-2. You were definitely blamed if your sponsor/spiritual partners didn't follow through. Waysider is right, you were pretty much blamed for everything that went wrong. Anyone remember the "outreach cities" in 1980/81? Atlanta and Phillie were 2 of them, and maybe Denver was another. Anyway, some "genius" decided it would be a good idea to have a TWI band called "Takit" play at local high schools. Takit, by the way, really was a good band. I think we got in and out of one of the cities without incident. But once the media caught on to the scheme, wow! There was some very negative press. Takit was getting shut out of about every concert they scheduled as I recall. TWI responded with law suits etc. That certainly endeared us to these communities. Anyway, guess whose fault that was? Yep, Corps on the field. I know because I was in residence at the time and would hear the reports about how inept Corps was handling things. I was also glad I wasn't Corps on the field at the time. No way could it have been a bad idea or anything. I

I agree. Looking back, you never see VP defending himself against the general public, but you often see him sppealing to the believers. What I mean by that is that if he said anything, it was to us. Sometines he would stomp his fist and talk about how much he was persecuted over the years. Or he would cry about how he was betrayed by his own denomination. He was always appealing to the "faithful". Why? Because we were the one's dealing with the public and bringing in the people, and generating the revenue. The man was not stupid. So, that's a long-winded way of saying that VPW could care a less what the general public thought of him or the ministry.

Don't lead anyone to Christ, that is the New Birth, until they've had PFAL because when someone gets saved their guardian angel leaves them. If they haven't learned how to renew their mind yet, they could die. So, leading someone to Christ could kill them(?). If you pray to God with your own understanding, He can't understand you. That's because God is Spirit and He can only speak to that which He is which is spirit. Therefore, the only way to pray or speak to God is by speaking in tongues. Prayer with the understanding is only for our own believing. Now, it's true that Jesus and others prayed to God with their understanding, but you see, that was a different administration. God has now given the gift of holy spirit, so He only hears us if we speak in tongues. Somehow, between the Gospels and the Epistles, God became stupid and can no longer understand English, or any other man-made language. Oh, we are so privileged! We are the only people in the world who can actually pray to God! No one else. Hmm, I wonder then, how are we able to prophesy and interpret tongues if God doesn't understand English? Teacher:"The 'Fruit of the Spirit' listed in Galatians 5 is cultivated by 'operating' the manifestations of the spirit. Therefore to have love, peace, joy, etc. you need to speak in tongues. If you speak in tongues and still don't exhibit this promised fruit, it's because you're not renewing your mind." Student:"Excuse me, let me make sure I'm understanding this correctly. You say that the way someone cultivates the 'fruit of the spirit' in their lives is by manifesting the spirit, which is speaking in tongues, right?" Teacher:"Right." Student:But if someone is speaking in tongues and still not cultivating this 'fruit', then it's because they're not renewing their mind, right? Teacher:"Right." Student:"Does speaking in tongues cause someone to renew their mind?" Teacher:"No. Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. Renewing one's mind is something we do in the senses world and has nothing to do with speaking in tongues." Student:(looking bewildered) Well, then, why even bother speaking in tongues if cultivating fruit of the spirit really requires renewing one's mind?" Teacher:"Well, uh..." Student:"You certainly aren't suggesting that God is a mindless vending machine that only spits out love, joy, peace, etc. only if you plop in your "coin" of speaking in tonues, are you?" Teacher:"Please hold your questions until after the last session." Disclaimer: I made up this conversation only to illustrate the double-talk of TWI doctrine. I did not actually witness or take part in a conversation such as this. Also, I happen to believe in speaking in tongues. I just don't think TWI had it right.

Now THAT'S the kind of crap that was thrown around so much with TWI. This sounds so...academic. So...intellectual. But upon closer view, it makes absolutely no sense but people would go "woooh"! By the way, who said that? A friend of mine and I concluded that people at the Rock of Ages never actually listened to what was being said from the mainstage, they simply listened for voice inflections. You could say anything and if you had the right voice inflection you would get a cheer from the crowd. The emphasis was on sounding good, not on substance. Do you remember how VP would often be speaking and during the talk he would get all choked up. "Aw kids, you break my heart!" then in the next breath his voice would return to normal? I used to be amazed at how fast he could click in and out of such deeply felt emotional states. Actually, even then I suspected the whole thing was for show, and he clicked in and out of emotional states to manipulate his audience. No one ever said the man wasn't slick.

I'm pretty sure he said it. It was a Corps Night and he was "teaching" from Eph. 1 and he stopped and made that statement. Then Harve Platig was inspired to write that song. Now, whether he read that somewhere, or heard someone else say it before he taught that, I don't know. I'd never heard it before then but I was an "old man" of 23 at the time. I believe it was fall of 1980.

The thinking went that if one is obese, then they lack self-discipline and no, TWI didn't pay health covereage for in-residence Corps. Yeah... except in my corps they all got yelled at before they left for not having the believing to be well before they came in residence.

I'd say something about apathy, but I could care a less really.

For affect, they would punctuate it with the record from Acts about Ananias and Sapphira. You know, where they lied about how much they were giving the church. The holy spirit told Peter and Peter spoke it out and they died. Don't let this happen TO YOU!!

No, that isn't what Corps was all about for most of us. I understand how you might get that impression. We actually thought, most of us, that we were fulfilling God's vision on this earth. It was not my vision that someday my daughter would grow up to have sex with a top leader. I wanted her to grow up and "stand for The Word". I didn't say I wanted her to grow up and fulfill the physical needs of some man. Huh? What's that supposed to mean? Not he rest of your post, but this little quip, what's up with this?

Unlike TWI? I would like to think we weren't as bad as the Davidians but, anymore, I'm not so sure. You take certain people, isolate them and tell them things over and again, add a little bit of mental pressure, who knows what pops out? VP just went in a different direction than David Koresh. According to Karl Kahler's book, The Cult that Snapped, TWI had a hidden arsenal. Both Kahler, and also Kristen Skedgell in her book Losing the Way, list 2 different mock concentration camps; once with some 5th Corps, and once with some 8th Corps. VP wanted to see who was "tough". Here various tactics were used to frighten people including shooting military like weapons in the air and telling people they would be shot if they did not obey. They were subjected to prisoner-like conditions. People were systematically frightened, treated like prisoners, and verbally intimidated. In both cases there were people who agreed to act as the captors who would do the intimidating. What else would people have done if Wierwille requested it? I dunno. I would like to think I had at least some shreds of independent thought.

The Barnes Lawsuit? I hadn't heard of that. Can someone tell me where I can get some information about that>

We were trained to be grunts. We were all viewed as being at the disposal of TWI. What did we expect in exchange? For me, self-respect maybe. A sense of worth, something to belong to and be a part of. Problem is, you can't bargain for your self-worth, no one will give it to you. No one can. But there are plenty of people who'll take you for a ride and promise you anything.

edit: We were supposed to sponsor someone in the WC, too. Ewww! :unsure:

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Fellow Laborers of Ohio...you guys did as much stuff as Way Corps ON TOP of having full time jobs and got absolutely zero recognition or respect from the rest of TWI including HQ. Did you guys get to keep any of the money you earned at your jobs or did you have to pool it with everyone else? You know, that ridiculous "family fund" thing they kept touting. Was it more like Communism? Who got to make the decisions on how you spent your own money? Who kept your money after you graduated? I was an Ohio "Minuteman" during the Summer of '75. Were you in FLO then?

Thanks Chockful I believe you, but I couldn't find a filing in Ohio. All organizations, non-profit or otherwise are supposed to be listed on the Secretary of State's website. I'm just curious. If you happen to have an answer that would be great, if you don't, that's fine too. Anyway, someone suggested the cost of settling the Allen lawsuit could be calculated by comparing different financial statements. I don't think so, the information listed here is pretty vague. I believe we would need to see either a P/L statement or an earnings statement.

Soon, for no pay, they'll be operating machines that suck poo-poo out of latrines and say they've been blessed.

Oh my! That's awful! I was somehow under the impression that since Europe was its own trunk, there were no travel requirements to HQ every year. No, that would have been far too sensible. I'm whining about a few hours and a few hundred dollars while having to have the type of job that would allow for TWI activities. Wow! That's nothing compared to you internationals. Sorry for all the trouble you had to endure.

How very sad.

Would it be o.k. if I asked if she was an "innie" before she married? I'm just curious if they tried to split a marriage that was already established pre-TWI. Not that it matters.

But I thought therapists were secular and therefore...not really needed. One just needs to renew their mind which means all they need is the ministry. Right? What if this therapist is actually able to get this patient to actually have a cogent thought? The whole fabric of TWI will shred to pieces!

Is it, "Why Did You Join that Cult you Idiot?" I believe the group was called Former Friends. Came out in the 70's I believe.

True, but I think Oldskool might be trying to point out that TWI is trying to get a cleaner image with regard to the whole issue.

It fools some but not too many. Enough to keep that ABS coming in though, eh?

Did they come out with such a class?