Broken Arrow

I'm curious, is the group still together then? Sounds like it is. Are there new faces or is it simply the same people that have been coming for the past 20 years with their adult children? Is any new information brought in from sources other than TWI, or do the teachings strictly rely on what is researched by the leader(s)? Do people in the group fellowship with other Christians or is it still a closed society like TWI was? Does the group ever partner with other churches for community service?

I like gatherings where the Bible is shared. That is shared, not talked at. Places where people are challenged to think.

I was getting fed up with the dictatorial attitude of top leadership who were so out of touch with what it was like living in the real world. Once we had a baby, it was very difficult to maintain my level of involvement (I was Corps) and still provide for my family. Then came Corps Week/ROA '86 and the reading of the poop paper. While I found the contents therein shocking, that was not the reason I left. What I became very disillusioned by was the conduct of top leadership in the face of this crisis. LCM "knee-jerking" and letting the contents of the paper leak out so that people started getting upset. Geer feeding into the situation and reading the document publically and then offering no help. Then when some freaked, he criticized them and used that as evidence as to how much insanity existed in the The Way Corps in the U.S. I saw a lot of top clergy turn into raving, yelling, lunatics. I was taught by TWI to always try to find a solution. Try to work together. Avoid name calling and don't react out of anger. But our top leadership, the ones who were supposed to be the cream of the crop basically acted like grade school children who weren't getting their way. When the trash can lid that was the dictatorial authority of TWI was lifted off the trash can, which was the rest of the ministry, people showed their true colors. Never in my life had I seen a group of adults act so immature. These were men I admired and looked up to, and wanted to be like. Not anymore. I looked around and said, "These guys are bunch of idiots!" I stayed in an offshoot for awhile. That fellowship became very very stale, and it became more about the ego of the leader than anything else. It's still in operation today and it's still about the ego of the leader. The guy really needs to be somebody. You don't have to tell him how great he is, he'll tell you himself usually before you can get a word in edgewise. I left that group out of sheer boredom. I do other stuff now I find satisfying and fulfilling, but that's probably for another thread. BTW, I would advise one and all to avoid offshoots. I don't like to make blanket statements, but in this case I think I'm correct in saying that any offshoot ascribes to the doctrine of TWI which is V.P. was taught The Word by God Himself. If they didn't believe that, they would not be an offshoot. In my experience, I have found that offshoots are typically even worse than TWI. Let me type that again...IN MY EXPERIENCE, I HAVE FOUND THAT OFFSHOOTS ARE TYPICALLY EVEN WORSE THAN TWI. From what I've seen, whoever has started the offshoot has a very inflated opinion of themselves and they want to be "the man" (I don't see any women starting offshoots...hmmm). There are even fewer checks and balances than there were in TWI and thus the tyranny is worse. That's all I have to say about it, but if someone wants to talk about it more, I would be more than happy to engage in a dialogue but it should be on another thread.

I rather enjoy Altoids actually. Guess I'll have to give mint flavored cow hoof a try.

It's hard to say what was the most damaging teaching of TWI. Certainly a very very damaging teaching was this concept that life should go well all of the time in every category. If that is not the case, according to TWI something is wrong with YOU, that is, your believing. That was just an awful way to teach how to live life in the real world. Speaking for myself, this type of teaching made me mentally live in a make-believe world. The truth of the matter was, things didn't go well all of the time in every category, it rarely does. I often thought at the time, though there was something wrong with me and quite frankly I was miserable. So why did I stay for 15 years? 2 reasons. One was I held out hope that one day it would all come together and make sense and I would reach this "more abundant life" status. You know...like "Dr." Wierwille. The other reason was that I was afraid to leave the protection of the Household.

That's a good one, Ham!

Don't you know? The adversary made the rest of the world choose VHS over Betamax after The Way decided to go with Beta. If The Way had chosen VHS, the rest of the world would have gone to Beta!! He did this because TWI teaches the Word and the devil hates the Word. It's always the integrity of The Word that's at stake! You see kids, it's all so simple when you think spiritually. Remember, it's "us" and "them". "We" are always right and "they" are always wrong. Now think peaceful, happy thoughts,

Sorry, I meant for this quote to be included with the lower one but I missed. Probably the adverssary.

Absolutely correct! That is also my experience, and almost no pain at all.

Why thank you! I am, by the way!

I've been taught in my human relations courses (okay, they were sales courses) that if someone asks a direct question to give them a direct answer or else you come off like you're dodging the question. In the question you posed, there is actually another question hiding in there and that's the one they're concerned about. They're hoping you'll answer it for them so they don't have to ask it and possibly risk looking rude. So they ask you this question to knock you off balance. Then, no matter what you say, they are in control. With all due respect, they are not being "honest and up front" in my opinion. They are hiding. So, here's a suggestion, and take it for what it's worth. "You were involved in The Way? Isn't The Way a cult?" "Well, yeah, I guess a lot of people think so anyway. I'm just curious, why is that question important to you, just now?" The answer to that question is their real question. There are other ways to say this. Pick one that best suits your personality. Written down it may look a little abrasive, but it's all in how you say it. If they are being aggressive and mean and ask, "You were in a cult, weren't you!?" Just cut out the softening statements and say, "Why is that important, right now?" Just some ideas.

O.K., so I'm aging. I just today had a cataract removed from my left eye. I'm doing fine, by the way. They put a patch over your eye once their through and then send you home with instructions to take it easy. "Take it easy", in the medical world means, "Don't do anything." I have friends who, with all their compassion and sympathy, are e-mailing me or calling me and making pirate jokes referring to the patch over my eye. "Arghh!" many of them say. My answer to them is that I am a Pirate who doesn't do anything, bringing to mind this song.

Indeed. Mine becomes more difficult to mind as the years go by.

That, and there was always an underlying assumption that whatever they were saying, planning,etc. was the Will of God.

Yeah, if you were fortunate enough to get a job that gave you 2 weeks off in your first year of employment, you spent that time going to Corps Week and the Rock. Then if you lived out west and you couldn't "believe" enough to get a plane ticket, add another week's worth of driving and now you're off 3 weeks for the Rock and Corps Week. Good luck finding a job that gives you 3 weeks off a year. Wierwille's answer, "believe God and quit fainting in your minds!" I remember well how V.P.'s heart was "broken" because of all the Corps that departed prior to the Rock. So he yelled at the entire Corp during a Sunday night service. Add to all of that all the twig, branch, limb, W.O.W. Vet, Advanced Class grad meetings during the year along with the planning meetings for such events. Then there was the "volunteer work" for these events that took extra time. My favorite time was always driving for hours to go and mulch, trim, and generally spruce up THE LIMB COORDINATORS YARD. When I finally realized that the main leadership was completely out of touch with the Corps on the field was when top leader from a Root location visited our state. Then he busted on us and all Way Corps for not attending the Way Family Camps. Great! Add another week or 2 of time off and driving, raising the money etc. to go do "Devotion with Motion" at 7:00 in the morning. When we brought this up to our great leader, his answer was, "I don't know what to tell you. You just need to believe God."

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Exactly! If they had ALL turned away, who preserved his writings? These things are very insightful for me. I appreciate everyone's input on this.

No, it says "all they which dwell in Asia. The assumption is that Paul is speaking of the church in Asia which would make sense since that is where he carried out the bulk of his ministry. TWI taught that Asia was the known world at that time but there was also Macedonia, Northern Africa, Rome, and probably other places.

The irony behind this is that the "rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft" saying is a quote from I Samuel where Samuel confronts Saul about his rebellion. Thus, this saying was spoken to a man. JJ, I fully agree that misogyny ran rampant in TWI but I had this verse used against me too. It came up whenever I had a differnt idea than leadership. Still, I think things were a LOT tougher on women.

A little bit of Nietze to go with that wow burger sir?

Perhaps you should consider it a compliment. I mean if people are taking the trouble to read your post and then vote against it, they're reading it right? If they're voting it down, then you had an affect. I think that's kind of cool. I suggest you keep posting, you're making people think. I dunno, I think it's a problem if everyone agrees with me all the time. One more thing, if they won't face you directly, what does that say about them? This forum is supposed to be a place for an exchange of ideas and perspectives, not a mutual admiration society.

There is no credible evidence to support your argument and I'm a bit unclear as to where you're getting the idea that Paul was liberal. If anything he was quite the opposite. Perhaps you're referring to Paul's teaching that the Gentiles being fellow heirs? I've never read Josephus, apparentally you have. Nevertheless, I wouldn't consider him not including the record you mentioned as damning evidence that the event never happened. But if you want to bring Josepus' writings into the discussion, I am aware that he did mention Jesus Christ. That refutes your argument that Jesus was a fable.

I believe you'll find that Paul quotes the OT at length in both the epistles of Romans and Galatians. Jesus is reported as quoting the OT throughout the Gospels if I'm not mistaken.

Theo Pneustos. Wasn't he on the Cosby show?