Broken Arrow

I know. You guys actually had an even tougher curriculum than the Corps and got zero recognition and credit for anything. Sorry.

What's this quote from?

Absolutely true. He was truly a gem that was rarely allowed to do much. As far as the College Division curriculum though, the only courses that were really worth a "hoot" imo were Old and New Testament History. Another good class was Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ because that was one of the rare times one got a long look at the gospels in TWI. Practical Management, I thought, was of value. It was the first time in my young life I learned about setting goals and managing one's time. Early Church History had potential unfortunately TWI used it to show how superior they were. "Keys to Research" just plain sucked, at least my year. Everything else was PFAL series, hardly college level. I can't speak to the 2nd year curriculum. No reports, as I recall. Very few reading assignments unless it was one of the collaterals. Almost no interaction with the faculty, many of which had no idea what they were talking about anyway. Seriously. We did have tests and exams. They were often prepared by people who had no educational background, and therefore really didn't know how to prepare college-level exams much less how to really educate.

Isn't it, "It's Just Another Day (do do do-do do do)" and the artist Paul McCartney?

If that were true, then the nice guys would all be doing well, and the a**holes wouldn't be. Bad guys wouldn't go scott free, and the good people would all have great lives. Actually, we would all be milk toast because we all exhude both good and evil.

That last line is funny. Really, I think the CD was more Don's vision that VP's. Just an opinion.

O.K. I'm tracking with you now. Thanks for explaining. Nice link by the way. :) I agree with TeachMe. As I recall the unspoken message was, "See? I'm the only one who really cares." I also wonder if the grave was really covered by grass.

How do you know this to be true? If most people objected, then who did most most support to assume the presidency?

I did both. I was College Division 75-76, the first year of the program. We were definitely looked upon as second class citizens. The truth is, pretty much everything revolved around the Way Corps at Emporia. Sometimes and often it was as if we weren't even there to a lot of people. Most of what was said from the front was addressed to the Corps. Of course, that doesn't apply to everyone who was in The Corps. There were also some wonderful people in the Corps who were very loving. I entered the College Division right out of high school. It was my first experience being away from home and away from everything that was familiar. I was scared to the point of being sick by the time I arrived. Most of the other CD folks were older and a few of the older guys took me under their wing and sort of made me their younger brother. When I say "older", I mean guys at the ripe old age of 22 or 24. I learned a little bit about who I was and the next year I went to a secular college, Ohio University to be exact. I'm not sure I would have made it if it hadn't been for my experience in the College Division. I learned how to study and how to stick with things when I may not be doing well. Also, believe it or not Don Wierwille was very encouraging at that time and very much believed in the value of a higher education from a secular college. That was the good part of College Division. It was also a tough year in a lot of ways. There was a lot of marital infidelity as well as sexual promiscuity. I had a hard time handling that as a young kid. What bothered me even more is that nothing was said from the leadership condemning this behavior. Now I understand why, but I didn't then. It was also in the College Division that I started to embrace a lot of TWI legalism and one-sided views of life. That was damaging. After graduating from college I went into The Corps myself. As far as how I viewed the College Division, I thought well of them being an alumni myself. There seemed to be a low level of resentment among some CD toward CD alums that went Corps, as if we were traitors or something. Again, that was with just a few. Most people were nice. As far as the Corps itself, I wish I'd never gone in. I didn't really learn anything of use and just became more of a company man. I was perfectly free to pursue secular goals, but my thinking was more along the lines of promoting the ministry so I did nothing to develop myself professionally. By the time I got out of TWI my degree was pretty much outdated. Worse, though out of TWI, my worldview was such that it didn't mix well in the marketplace. I know some people who left TWI and went on to be successful at other endeavors, so I don't blame TWI for my own failures. TWI was a major contributor to my diseased and ineffective thinking, however.

I can believe Cheech and Chong might have gotten their idea for "Blind Melon Chitlin'" from this guy, but the idea of Wierwille listening to this is a bit of a stretch. :wacko:

Yeah Skyrider, I just want to also lend my thanks for taking the time to gather this information and share it with the rest of us.

The grave was that of George Mueller. Wierwille didn't fly to Europe with the express purpose of visiting the grave, but when he did, he supposidely found it covered with grass. This, "broke his heart". Supposidely he told some local believers to keep the grave up. George Mueller lived in the late 1800's and was a man of prayer. At that time there was a huge problem with orphans in England and Mueller addressed the problem by starting orphanages. He documents what he believes were a series of miracles in answer to prayer to provide for these orphanages. If you're interested you can read his autobiography that goes by the same name. It should be in any public library. Mueller himself was highly respected and thought well of during his time. Whether Wierwille actually found his grave unkempt is anybody's guess.

Whoa...someone who actually had a good experience on the W.O.W. field...rare!

Am I correct in reading that VPW is claiming to have been at a conference that had already concluded months before he even left for India?

I know what you mean. There's something therapeutic and comforting about working with animals.

You know...now that you mention it...I had been speaking in tongues. Maybe I said something in "Bovine" that upset the bull. :unsure:

Had to make sure those cows stayed on their side of the fence. That was if you worked parking, I guess. Parking was actually busy twice. Once when everyone was arriving, and then, of course, when everyone was leaving. The time in between you sat in a chair and watched the parked cars. If you were on graveyard, the only people to talk to were the cows. So I would moo at the cows, and one time, this bull decided I was an annoyance and started huffing at me. I shut up at that point. I didn't want the headlines in the New Knoxville paper to read, "Some Idiot at TWI Gets Gored by Bull: Was Trying to Talk to Cows."

I don't think the poster is questioning the importance of ant colonies. I think the poster is questioning the purpose of all of life. Is the purpose of our lives simply to generate other lives? Is the purpose of this life simply to keep things going, maintain the status quo, so that another generation can rise up and repeat the process? It all seems so pointless because if you strip everything down to its most basic component, everything and everyone around us is in the process of dying and decaying. (Well, I feel better now! Let's join hands and sing, "Kum bye yah!") Fyodor Dostoyevsky, in is novel Brothers Karamazov makes a point in saying, "If there is no God, everything is permissable. Who's to say murder is bad? We'll all end up dead anyway. May as well help reduce the surface population, to borrow a phrase from Ebenezer Scrooge. Who's to say anything is bad? We've had our Hitlers and Stalins in the past. These are extreme examples of men who had to have everything their own way. "Good" to them, was whatever was good for them. Cross them, and you were executed. Were they wrong? How about the holocaust, was it wrong? Who's to say? I don't agree with the poster who said that without God we are nothing more than an ant farm but I see his point. Without God, we simply follow a code for reasons that we're not sure of and like ants we don't question it. I don't think an ant farm is a good metaphor, though, it's insulting to the ants. I agree with what you say about TWI's method of dehumanizing but I don't see how you make the jump from comparing life without God to abuse from TWI.

I agree. Let's manufacture a life that is as controllable as the volume button on a radio. A positive thought here, a principle applied there, and good things will happen to us all the time. Now I don't have to have any fear because I know the principles and I'm in charge. Thus I have created my own dreamworld of constant happiness. At 17 I believed this was all possible. I don't have to tell you or anyone else here, but that world comes crashing down in the face of a real crisis like a life-threatening illness, or a spouse that wants a divorce, or a child that is very sick. It's times such as these where one decides to cling on to that dreamworld with a death grip, or let go and acknowledge our weakness and ask for help. Help from others, and in my worldview, God.

Well said, I think. Sometimes people have bad things happen because of their own actions or bad decisions. Sometimes it's just that we live in "evil times" like Solomon said in Eccl. I don't think we ever really know what the case is when it comes to someone else. Now, in TWI, we wanted to believe we lived in a totally controllable world. So we had the believing=receiving thing going on. If something bad happened to someone in our ranks, we had to blame them. Why? Because we didn't want to face the fact that something bad could broadside us from out of nowhere. The comfort isn't in having the illusion of control, it's in knowing that no matter what heppens, we'll have what we need to deal with it...even if it's death itself.

Well, now see? For you, University of Life was usefull for something after all! You guys had me worried that the whole thing was a complete waste of time.

One time when I was working Bless Patrol at Emporia the Devil sent a skunk on to campus. Hark! We were the ones spiritually in charge, we must rid God's Holy grounds of this demonic menace quickly, before JAL woke up! So, like the spiritually perceptive people we were trained to be, started chasing the skunk. The skunk, who I think actually felt sorry for us, ran just to be polite. Eventually he grew tired of running and he stopped, turned around and just looked at us as if to say, "Do you REALLY want to be chasing me?" Have you ever been in a dead run and suddenly realize what an idiot you're being and try to stop your momentum? Yeah, it was like that. Anyway, we managed to stop and we froze, and now we were starting to get smart. There were 4 of us. The skunk looked at us as if to say, "Now that's better", and then he walked away and left the grounds at his own leisure. Really? Why? Nothing ever happened there. They would have been better off bugging the EOB, you know, where the ammo dump was. You think they were bugging it in the 70's and 80's? That would have been kind of gross, Uncle Harry was alive for part of that time. Nah, only worry about the ones with green dots.

The fact it was non-intentional is what makes it so funny, at least to me.

Thanks Bean, I knew Lennon would eventually get involved! :)

Yeah, I think so, but not solely based on the U of L program. Some U of L grads eventually found their way into the Corps and graduated. Some U of L students were Corps Grads who just wanted to study more material. In fact, that was promoted. Also at that time there were leaders, very few, but some who didn't go through the Way Corps and I believe many of them were U of L grads. It's been so long, my memory is a little shakey. Just so I'm clear on what you're saying, Wierwille's teaching on Romans is a "rip-off" of Welsch's work, and that you just kind of happened across that when you were studying Romans in residence? That's pretty cool if I'm understanding you correctly.